Suggestion for HopnPop please

[JustRelax 0]

I'm near the end of AFF training. Next jump is HopnPop from 3.5k. Appreciate any suggestions - think will be a bit scary because first time so low. Any advice appeciated.

________________________________________
Taking risk is part of living well - it's best to learn from other peoples mistakes, rather than your own.

[pds 0]

umm, just relax. make a 'poised exit' to ease your trip off the hill, should be 4 or 5 seconds, and pull. i repeat, if you are concerned with the low alti, a smooth exit is the answer.

namaste, motherfucker.

[rgoper 0]

as pds mentioned, just do a poised, relaxed exit. head high and watch the plane fly away, then PULL! you'll eventually begin to love doing these, trust me!

--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

[JustRelax 0]

Spoke to experienced jumper, who said to expect slow opening on HopnPop since openning will be before reaching terminal velosity. So as not to freak, how long should I sit with a slow openning before going for my reserve?

Figure if jump at 3.5k count 5 and pull for slow openning, should be all okay under canopy by 1.5k. If I do usual count after pull ie 1,000, 2,000, 3,000, 4,000 look left, 5,000 look right - could be about half open if slow openning so expect another 2 seconds counting to 7,000 - then if not open yet ~ 1,500 feet do I go straight for reserve at that point?

Does this sound like a good plan? I know thinking about going for my reserve is worst case scenario, but want to know just in case.

________________________________________
Taking risk is part of living well - it's best to learn from other peoples mistakes, rather than your own.

[JustRelax 0]

Yeah, that's good. I can look up and see the plane now, so I will make sure I do that as I drop off and start counting.

________________________________________
Taking risk is part of living well - it's best to learn from other peoples mistakes, rather than your own.

[poohbeer 0]

I would suggest sticking with your normal harddeck.
If not under a canopy you can fly by then -> immidiate emergency procedures

Do you really need to do a hop'npop from 3500 feet for completing your AFF?!
Is this common practice in other countries than NZ?

That's below my normal pull altitude by 500 feet which means I would go directly to pulling no matter if I'm stable or not.

If you jump out at 3500f, then wait 5 secs to get stable and pull (like you say) and then you have a slow opening canopy that would break my harddeck (2500feet; since http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=628899#628899 untill I have had a reserveride) so emergency procedures would be in order. NO WAY am I gonna break that harddeck the first couple 1000 jumps. Lowering it I might do, but not right now with only 20 jumps.

PS: READ MY SIGNATURE!

------- SIGNATURE BELOW -------
Complete newbie at skydiving, so be critical about what I say!!
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

[AggieDave 6]

Ok, here ya go.

1. JUmp a poised exit to help you with stability.
2. Scream like a little girl.
3. Pull.
4. Laugh at yourself for screaming like a little girl, since it was easy, its not scary and it is fun.



The point is to relax and enjoy it, this isn't hard, its actually a lot of fun. If you're not relaxed, then you won't be as stable, and you probably won't enjoy it as much due to not being as stable. Make sense? Ok, now get out there and do it, good luck!

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[pds 0]

its 'slower', granted, but not to the point it needs to be a focus of your jump. exit stable, as soon as your off the hill, pull. no sweat.

as far as how long you should wait, you already know that answer. what is your decision altitude? hard deck is not a dynamic number.

at this point i am going to defer to your JM. you need to talk to him. advice from experienced jumpers has it's value, but your JM knows you and is absolutely willing to discuss this with you, trust me.

please make sure that the last person you discuss this with is your OWN JM. (not to imply that you should save him for last, you know what i mean)

good luck and 'justrelax'

namaste, motherfucker.

[pds 0]

i am starting to see the merit of one line responses.

you go to write a nice, thought out reply and every yahoo and his redhedded half cousin (yeah, you) sneaks in under you making you look like a 'me too' half wit. AAAAAAAAGHHHHHHHHHHH i give up.

lol

namaste, motherfucker.

[skymick 0]

Hey if you get out and it takes your canopy till 1.5k to open there is something seriously wrong with it. Dont forget while it may take longer to open, your vertical descent is pretty low to. Even if you wait 5 seconds then pull your speed should be enough for it to open at it's nomal pace just about.

At your stage you should still follow your emergency procedures exactly as they were told to you, and if that means getting rid of it when you count to 5000 then so be it but I would be very suprised if it didnt open before then (asumming it was packed ok)

HnP's arnt so scary once you do one or two, Ive gotten out just nover 2,000 and been open by 1800 no problems (thats what I told the CI anyway ). Its just what the other guys said, just be stable when you get out and everything else will be sweet.

Cheers

[michaelflying 0]

Quote

I'm near the end of AFF training. Next jump is HopnPop from 3.5k. Appreciate any suggestions - think will be a bit scary because first time so low. Any advice appeciated.

What do you mean so low so high can still safely do 10 sec delay from 3.5 k don't stress yourself rem poor military bastards jumping from 600 foot

www.skydivekzn.co.za

[sdctlc 0]

I have heard this concern many times. A 3.5 exit is a altitude to chunk something off from in the NW when the weather is bad

A hop in pop is a great fun way to get a jump in and I would not be that concerned. the more worried you get the more likely something will not be perfect on the jump. Consider this, if you open at 3K normally and you exit at 3.5K you have almost 6 seconds before your to 3K. If you pop into a hard track out the door you can add a few more seconds to that before you get to 3K. Are you going to be doing this, probably not, but the point is that 3.5 is no different then a 13K jump. The air is the same you still can exit and fall stable and you still pull. The big difference is that you pull at about 5 seconds and not 65 seconds.

As for counting, fine if your more comfortable doing that, but you should be able to take a quick glance at the alti.

As for opening you ahould be under canopy by approx 2.5K if you pitch at 3K. With your experience (I did not bother looking at profille but you noted finishing AFF) if your at 1.5K the reserve is you choice.

The jump should go like this: exit stable at 3.5....Fall for about 5 seconds to just above 3K....pull and feel a slightly slower opening and have a open canopy at about 2.5K at the lowest....smile nd have fun flying your canopy.

Scott C.

"He who Hesitates Shall Inherit the Earth!"

[councilman24 36]

Remember, it takes about 12 seconds to go that 1st thousand feet. If you do a five second delay you'll still be pulling above 3000'. Your canopy better not take 1500' to open. That's called a malfunction. Since I jumpmastered static line students for years I've probably got close to a 1000 jumps from 3500' or below. Lowest is about 1800'. (NO ENGINE CUT, DAMMIT!)

Yeah you'll be nerverous, but spotting is a whole lot easier. Of course now I have you worried about spotting since you've probably never done it.

Relax and don't rush it

Terry

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[dterrick 0]

"Just Relax"

Those who say hop n pops are fun are right. I did all my IAD stuff from 3000 ft - bue I remember when that seemed Sooooo high

Dunno what you're jumping as a main but I doubt it will take more than a 5 count to open - get out poised ( or even a hanging exit if you're in a Cessna) release and fly till you;re JUST belly to earth (off the slide) then pitch the pc. You do have a standard '5 count and check' routine you are trained on right? Still applies - NOTHING safety related is different.

Everyone's right that you should be in the saddle by about 2500, and this is quite likely near your coutnry's licensed MINIMUM activation altutude. Once you get your ticket and start doing RW, etc. you'll find that being at 3500 and screaming at the earth at 120+ is a LOT different from a hop n pop and the hnp will seem totally stress free.

Take a deep breath and just do it. If you like it, do it again. ...and again

-Dave

Life is very short and there's no time for fussing and fighting my friend (Lennon/McCartney)

[skytash 0]

Quote

Do you really need to do a hop'npop from 3500 feet for completing your AFF?!
Is this common practice in other countries than NZ?

It's a requirement in the UK to do a hop'n'pop at the end of the AFF too, to prove that you can open quickly in the event of an aircraft emergency and to get AFF'ers less scared of low exits. Having started on RAPS and then converted to AFF, I still needed to do the hop'n'pop at the end of my AFF although I had loads of 5 and 10 second delays in my log book.

tash

Don't ever save anything for a special occasion. Being alive is a special occasion. Avril Sloe

[poohbeer 0]

Quote

Remember, it takes about 12 seconds to go that 1st thousand feet. If you do a five second delay you'll still be pulling above 3000'. Your canopy better not take 1500' to open. That's called a malfunction. Since I jumpmastered static line students for years I've probably got close to a 1000 jumps from 3500' or below. Lowest is about 1800'. (NO ENGINE CUT, DAMMIT!)
Terry

And how high would you suggest an AFF student has their harddeck before which they must decide to stick with main or go reserve? I've been told (http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=628899#628899) that for students and A licenseholders that harddeck must not be lower than 2500 feet.
So if pulling at 3000 feet that 2500 feet is no more than a long snivel away isn't it?

You with 1000 jumps have a comfortlevel to go below 2500 feet, but should AFF students do that also?
Now I realise there is time to spend from 3500 but it's not that heck of alot for a novice skydiver in my (novice) opinion.

------- SIGNATURE BELOW -------
Complete newbie at skydiving, so be critical about what I say!!
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

[Kris 0]

Quote

You with 1000 jumps have a comfortlevel to go below 2500 feet, but should AFF students do that also?
Now I realise there is time to spend from 3500 but it's not that heck of alot for a novice skydiver in my (novice) opinion.

It may not seem like a lot but it certainly is. Don't forget, you've also got the forward throw of the airplane to work with as well (the transition off of the relative-wind "hill").

S/L and IAD students go from 3500' all the time. When I take a student for their first clear & pull, I only give them an extra 500' or so. I don't have to, it's just a buffer, but it is their first time pulling on their own.

By the time AFF students get to that point, they've already had several successful self seployments. The only difference is the altitude.

3500 isn't low. Even 3K isn't low. My Stiletto snivels forever at times, but if I do a HnP from a fast airplane (KingAir, CASA) I'm usually open about 200' below my exit altitude. In a piston Cessna, about 250'-300'.

Personally, I think the HnP should stay in the curriculum. If there's an A/C emergency and the pilot orders everyone to bail at 2K, I'd hate to be behind someone who freezes in the door.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[poohbeer 0]

Quote

It may not seem like a lot but it certainly is. Don't forget, you've also got the forward throw of the airplane to work with as well (the transition off of the relative-wind "hill").

S/L and IAD students go from 3500' all the time. When I take a student for their first clear & pull, I only give them an extra 500' or so. I don't have to, it's just a buffer, but it is their first time pulling on their own.

By the time AFF students get to that point, they've already had several successful self seployments. The only difference is the altitude.

3500 isn't low. Even 3K isn't low. My Stiletto snivels forever at times, but if I do a HnP from a fast airplane (KingAir, CASA) I'm usually open about 200' below my exit altitude. In a piston Cessna, about 250'-300'.

Personally, I think the HnP should stay in the curriculum. If there's an A/C emergency and the pilot orders everyone to bail at 2K, I'd hate to be behind someone who freezes in the door.

Well, I'm not totaly convinced but that's no problem... I don't need to do any 3500 hop'n'pops.

Btw, if in an emergency at 2000 feet. What would you suggest the just off AFF student use, his main or reserve?

------- SIGNATURE BELOW -------
Complete newbie at skydiving, so be critical about what I say!!
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

[Kris 0]

Quote

Well, I'm not totaly convinced but that's no problem... I don't need to do any 3500 hop'n'pops.

You may not need to, but someday you might have to...and a whole lot lower than that.

Quote

Btw, if in an emergency at 2000 feet. What would you suggest the just off AFF student use, his main or reserve?

At 2K? I'd have them use their reserve. They may fumble or lock for a bit and, by that altitude, their Cypres has already armed. 3K & above go for their main.

For experienced, that's their own call. I'll get out on my main from around 1500 & above (depending on the circumstances), below that and and I'm going out on my reserve. Especially if we'd already climbed above 1500' and then went back down because now my Cypres is armed and I don't want to tempt a 2 canopy-out situation.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[nightjumps 1]

On the hop-n-pop, you will have a forward throw (Horizontal distance traveled by the skydiver due to aircraft speed).

Unlike a five second delay at terminal where 5.5 seconds equals 1,000', with a hop-n-pop five second delay, your vertical descent will put you at just around 3,000' by the time you pull.

By slower, we're not talking a panicky type of slow... it will take about another two seconds for your canopy to inflate - so you should be open by around 2400'

You'll be able to look up and watch it unfurl with more clarity on the hop-n-pop than you do at terminal. A by-product of this exercise its that you will "know" better in the future the shape and form your canopy takes during the opening sequence and on those days where you *might* have a longer then usual snivel, you'll still be able to tell if its going to open bythe shape and form its taking during opening, rather than seeing the end result. Now, that's not to say you should violate the hard-deck if you have an exceedingly long snivel and hit the hard deck... its just to say that over time, you'll see the snivel, check your altimeter while its opening, look at it again, then your altimeter, etc.

I've reached a point in my muscle memory where I pitch out and have my altimeter in my peripheral vision while I'm watching the deployment sequence.

Anyway... the bottom line is, you'll be higher than you think when the canopy opens on your hop-n-pop. Enjoy.

[billvon 2,400]

>Btw, if in an emergency at 2000 feet. What would you suggest the just
>off AFF student use, his main or reserve?

Main to 1500, reserve below. Exit with your hand on the handle/pud if you are worried about 'going low' or not being able to find the handle. Count to 1 (to clear the tail) and deploy. If you have a very snively main, use the reserve at a higher altitude. (One of the many reasons I consider a 1000 foot snivel to be dangerous.)

[b1jercat 0]

The exercise is called clear and pull for a reason. You dont have to wait a 5 count, once the tail of the plane passes your head you can toss and than watch your canopy open. Anyway Thats what I think the whole point of the exercise was. good luck

blues

jerry

[JustRelax 0]

Okay, revising my idea after reading below. Figure if jump at 3.5k count 5 and pull for slow openning, should be all okay under canopy by 2.5k rather than 1.5k. I was counting fall rate at terminal velosity speed by mistake. Naturally its a slower fall. My idea of adding 2 secs to the after pull count sounds right (1,000, 2,000, 3,000, 4,000 look left, 5,000 look right - allow another 2 seconds) - then think emergency if not out and flying.

Yes ofcourse I will check with my JM. He said he'll tell all on the day. But I like to do my background thinking and plan ready...then I can handle a different instruction on a particular point on the day.

________________________________________
Taking risk is part of living well - it's best to learn from other peoples mistakes, rather than your own.

[poohbeer 0]

Quote

Quote

Well, I'm not totaly convinced but that's no problem... I don't need to do any 3500 hop'n'pops.

You may not need to, but someday you might have to...and a whole lot lower than that.

I don't have a problem with it, but certainly don't think light of it. A whole lot lower I would certainly use silver. At 3500 non terminal I would just make sure not to loose alti awareness when trying to fix some minor annoyances like twists.

------- SIGNATURE BELOW -------
Complete newbie at skydiving, so be critical about what I say!!
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

[petetheladd 0]

Arch, pull,Arch more

Regular procedures from there on in

No, Not without incident