Straight to freeflying....

[RoysPlayThing 0]

This will probably sound like a dumb question, but can someone that just starts skydiving go straight into freeflying? .... Is it hard to learn from belly to freefly, or does it come naturally to many people?

Is it dangerous to try to learn to freefly right away?

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My mind is like a parachute...it functions only when open.

[DJL 232]

My 12th jump log-book entry reads: "Tried seated thingy. Seemed to work ok." Damn, I wish I had video of that. I was probably flying all over the place lounged back like that.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[AdD 1]

What do you mean by right away? Like less than 50-100 jumps? Probably not a good idea. You have to learn stability in the boxman (belly arch) first. There's a clip on skydivingmovies.com where Andy Ford explains a lot of the risks in freeflying, I think it's called vertical reality.

Life is ez
On the dz
Every jumper's dream
3 rigs and an airstream

[RoysPlayThing 0]

So how long did it take you to get it?

_______________________________________________
My mind is like a parachute...it functions only when open.

[ryand96 0]

Most experienced freefliers I talk to think that it is best to wait until you become a proficient belly flier before spending a lot of your time trying to freefly. It is supposed to be easier to learn once you have mastered flying on your belly. I can't speak from personal experience, because I've only messed around trying to sit on a handful of jumps and found it to be rather counterproductive. I would like to freefly but I think I will wait until I have a few hundred belly jumps under my belt. However, I'm sure there have been plenty of successful freefliers who started freeflying right off of student status and never looked back. I still think that it is best to wait.

[chaoskitty 0]

Some will say its like learning how to walk before you learn how to crawl. Flying on your belly teaches you the basics of flying your body and supposedly makes it easier to transition to freeflying. Freeflying is slightly more dangerous than belly flying. You are more likely to have a premature deployment because of the speed and position you are flying. Corking can also put you in a bad position if you dont have a lot of air time and know how to recover quickly.
All that taken in to consideration, if you want to go right in to freeflying, go for it. Theres nothing saying you have to be able to do RW before you freefly. Just make sure you can at least track on your belly.

[bbarnhouse 0]

Its always a good idea to learn to walk before you run.
Although there are some that start freeflying early on, it is imperative that one learns to fly on their belly with control,being able holding a heading and a stable deployment position.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Learning to freefly is not easy and neither is learning to fly relative to others (ie: those early RW jumps). When you combine doing both these difficult tasks together with a low-time jumper. It makes things harder and can be counter productive. But that's not to say that it can't be done. I do know someone who jumped right into freeflying and did a decent job with his sit. We are all different and jump numbers are not an indication of talent. But it is recommended to do a bunch of belly jumps before venturing into freeflying. This way you will be used to flying relative to others.

By the way, freeflying rocks and there's nothing that 10000 jumps can't fix.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[RoysPlayThing 0]

I seen video of you freeflying BB. I thought you were awesome, and its absolutely beautiful!

Edited to Say: In your opinion, is it easier to learn while solo in the air, or easier when you try to keep up with another freeflyer?

_______________________________________________
My mind is like a parachute...it functions only when open.

[catfishhunter 1]

Can't speak for anyone else but I fall FAST on my belly (exit weight of 260ish) I can hit 180-200 on my belly and really have to put the breaks on. Haven't spent allot of time freeflying but the little I have done I am screaming towards mother earth and the one time I didn't put the breaks on just turned and deployed it hurt like hell.. So I have just worked on my belly skills since I can keep up with most freeflyers already

MAKE EVERY DAY COUNT
Life is Short and we never know how long we are going to have. We must live life to the fullest EVERY DAY. Everything we do should have a greater purpose.

[ozthebum 0]

I hope y'all don't mind if I add another question to this......would you count tunnel time as belly time? I got really low jump numbers, but I plan on spending a lot of time in the tunnel over the next year (I'm going through some traning so I'm not aloud to jump out of a perfectly good airplane ) Is jumping (so-to-speak) into FF with low #s but high tunnel time any more acceptable or is it still a good idea to build up the belly jump #s?

[bbarnhouse 0]

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I seen video of you freeflying BB. I thought you were awesome, and its absolutely beautiful

Thank you for your kind words.

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In your opinion, is it easier to learn while solo in the air, or easier when you try to keep up with another freeflyer?

I always advocate for good coaching when learning any discipline. Yes, it may appear to be expensive, but in reality your learning curve is greatly enhanced, more so than it would be on your own. Thus you are actually spending less by learning correctly in the first place, rather than spending hundreds of jumps to acheive something that you could have accomplished with proper instruction. Additionally, you aren't as likely to learn bad habits.
If you have a tunnel...use it, it is a great tool .

[chopchop 0]

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I hope y'all don't mind if I add another question to this......would you count tunnel time as belly time? I got really low jump numbers, but I plan on spending a lot of time in the tunnel over the next year (I'm going through some traning so I'm not aloud to jump out of a perfectly good airplane ) Is jumping (so-to-speak) into FF with low #s but high tunnel time any more acceptable or is it still a good idea to build up the belly jump #s?

It is not so much about belly jump #s as it is belly flying skill.. Can you fly relative? Can you get to and fly your lot? Can you get the hell out of there when it is time? OK.. you are free to try some new (vertical) stuff.. Belly is your fallback, save your ass position.. get competent there and move on to freeflying if you desire. Good belly skills will come in handy later when you do those sunset speed stars or go to hang on a hybrid... but gotta get there first.. Build your skills one at a time. Have fun. Be safe.

chopchop
gotta go... Plaything needs a spanking..

Lotsa Pictures

[Squeak 17]

Here in Oz the Op Regs State to do freefly you need a C license, so 100 jumps, to do anything more than a 3 way freefly you need a Freefly Crest and they take some skill to get.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[firstime 0]

ask to be the last one out and do what ever you want to do, I did that, it kept me away from other jumpers as not to endanger them with my inexperience and it gave me a great amount of time
to learn my body. Just make sure your stable upon
deplyment. I still do the same thing, I will stay away
from everyone from exit to flare. I have my own
set of peas and once I master them I'll go to their
landing area. Please don't rush because of how impressive it might look. This is not advice but just
a way of keeping one safe until you feel that " yeah
I can do this". Again Don't rush, just enjoy and learn slow.

[Unstable 8]

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Some will say its like learning how to walk before you learn how to crawl.

I personally discourage jumpers from Freeflying before they are proficient on their bellies. However, here is the problem I see at DZ's today - - - For a Novice jumper to work on RW or belly flying, it can sometimes be a challenge to find somebody to jump with - likewise it is very easy to learn to Freefly and jump by yourself. I hear a lot of peaple tell me that they learned to FF because they could never find anybody to do RW with!!
I started believing that as soon as I could really control my body on my belly, I would start freeflying. Well, it turns out I love flying on my belly so much there is just never any time to Freefly. NOTHING can compare to the rush of a good 4 way!

=========Shaun ==========

[chaoskitty 0]

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I hear a lot of peaple tell me that they learned to FF because they could never find anybody to do RW with!!

I have the opposite problem.. everyone at my dz does RW. I dont have anyone to freefly with, much less a FF coach. I really like RW though. I've only got 120 jumps.. I'll pick up on FF as I go along. I could learn it on my own, but then I'd miss out on all the fun RW jumps!

[Skailz 0]

I went straight to freeflying myself, stuck to solos for a long time though, just practicing. I highly recommend having basic control on your belly before you freefly, which may or may not take many jumps. Definitely need to be stable on belly, know turns well, and to track. Sometimes I wish I would have done belly RW... just docking with others in a circle that way makes me uncomfortable a wee bit. I'd rather be head down with a couple other good freeflyers.. that's just me.

Blue Skies,

~Skailz~

[Tonto 1]

Straight after AFF, ISP, A licence, yes.

As always, there are risks to any new endevour, but these can be mitigated by prudent gear choices and the use of a qualified coach, who should be able to help out with those choices.

Dispite what some may believe, the transision from belly to feet in freefall is a far smaller one than from feet on ground to belly in air.

Ask your AFF I's who the freefly coaches are at your DZ and go and chat to them. They'll help you out from there, I'm sure. Make sure your gear is freefly safe before starting to freefly. (Audiable Alti highly recomended.)

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[sdgregory 0]

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I hear a lot of peaple tell me that they learned to FF because they could never find anybody to do RW with!!

That seems to be the general story.


When I first started I wanted to do four way badly. I did an 8 point 4 way for my 25th jump and it was so much fun.

Unfortunately, trying to find people to do four way with is not easy at 71 jumps.

Because of the whole fall rate thing you may spend a day just trying to hook up. And that's if you can get the more experienced jumpers to jump with you after the first time. Face it, many of you guys with experience don't find jumping a four way that doesn't hook up until the fourth jump very exciting.

I have tried to RW with people several times. Never more than a 5-way and then only three consecutive jumps where we tried to do a rotating spider.

None of the jumps turned a point except for the one mentioned above (my 25th). That jump the people I jumped with all had over 1000 jumps and so they did the work.

No matter how hard I try to get some people together to do four way noone wants to spend the time jumping with you in four way if they can't get a point turned all day.

This leaves you to coached jumps or solos. Solos aren't too much fun on your belly. So what does that leave you? Freefly.

A lot of experienced people say, get proficient on your belly before you go freefly. But how can you get proficient at belly without someone to jump with?

Since I have started trying to freefly I have had no problem getting someone to jump with. THAT is what really makes Freefly so attrctive to me. The fact that I can do it solo and have fun, and I can find people to do it with fairly easily. And that it can be put together fairly quickly.

"Hey what are you doing?"

"Solo sit fly."

"Me too, wanna jump?"

"Yeah sure."

"What kind of exit?"

"Train."

"Great. I suck though"

"So? Just don't cork and keep your eyes on me."

"Sweet!"

"What's your audible set at?"

"5000, 4000, and 2500."

"So break at 5, pull by 4?"

"Works for me."

And if the train funnels, who cares because it's freeflying and we can stay relative easily and you can do stupid funny moves and laugh and basically just PLAY in the air. Docking, burble hopping, flipping, spinning, the whole jump completely improvised on the spot.

I wanted to get a four way team organized for my skydiving club but it is nearly impossible to get four people plus a coach/video together on any sort of schedule with the limited free time/fundage of a college student.

Setting up a two way freefly team however was not so hard. So for now Collegiate Nationals looks like I will be doing two way freefly with a friend. Getting a coach/camera man was easy too. Now we only need to coordinate three shedules rather than 5 or 6 and we can work with the coach individually till we get our sit together and use the times when we can all get together to learn how to fly as a team.

[rehmwa 2]

I have to agree with Tonto - With proper coaching you can likely go to freeflying.

But, the 'walk' part of 'walk before you run' quote is misused. It is not belly before freeflying, it's more being still and able to handle yourself in the basic orientations for the discipline.

For Freeflying, the 'walk' part is a stable sit and stable back fly and a stable belly. Hardly what I'd call 'proficient', but at least minimally competent.

For RW, the 'walk' part is a stable belly and a minor bit of stillness (that's supposedly given to you in the training progression and your first hundred jumps or so). You need this for freeflying as this is a legitimate FF body position.

For RW - The 'run' part is fast/crisp belly moves, tight center turns and vertical transitions and clean flares from hard dives for RW and transitions etc.

For FF - I'm thinking 'run' is transitions and docks and HD and closing gaps and things bigger than 2 ways.

'walk' is about not being a danger
'run' is about control
for any discipline

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[Tonto 1]

Parts of your post were really scary.

I'm not kidding.

I can't stress the benefits of coaching enough. When I freefly, I do so with a coach - cos I'm a student in this environment. My coaches have about 3000 dives less than me - but about 1000 more freefly dives than I have.

There are few parents who would think that "Learning as you go along" is a viable alternative to a proper education for their kids.

Skydiving is no different.

t

It's the year of the Pig.

[KrisFlyZ 0]

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ask to be the last one out and do what ever you want to do.

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Someone with more experience please give your opinion on this.

I disagree on this one. It would be true only if you were pulling high. Even in that case if something went wrong and you had to pull low or have a high speed mal, you could be right on top of the freefliers that left before you.

If you are learning to freefly and are mostly on your back or belly(you drift a lot). You need to exit after all the belly people do but before the freefliers. Even if they are a bigger group.

Another important thing is that when you initially get the sit and even while learning it....make it a habit to turn 90 degrees to the line of flight. You will be driving forward or backward and you won't even know.

I was in a snivel 100' away from another canopy(a 2-way that left before us....the video shows 8 secs(enough on that day) of seperation and that my sit position needed me to lean back a bit more) NOT a sight I want to see again.

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[Nightingale 0]

Every one of my instructors, even those who prefer to freefly, told me to work on belly skills first.

[RoysPlayThing 0]

I disagree also. Even though I haven't been skydiving, I've been around it long enough to learn that this is not a good idea. Thank you for your input on this KrisFlyZ...

_______________________________________________
My mind is like a parachute...it functions only when open.