JohnRich 4 #26 January 31, 2005 QuoteI charge $5 dollars except for 190 sq. ft. and above.($6) I'm curious; why do you charge an extra buck for a larger canopy? Isn't it the same procedure, the same number of folds, the same number of line stows, etc.? Yeah, it's more fabric, but how does that equate to more work? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #27 January 31, 2005 QuoteQuoteI charge $5 dollars except for 190 sq. ft. and above.($6) I'm curious; why do you charge an extra buck for a larger canopy? Isn't it the same procedure, the same number of folds, the same number of line stows, etc.? Yeah, it's more fabric, but how does that equate to more work? Bigger canopies are harder to deal with, unless they are older breathable ones. So what about a discount for F111? (or at least the size would cancel out the easier use anyway) ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ahegeman 0 #28 January 31, 2005 That's another good reason why I pay more - so I can tell my packer to quite his bitching when he starts whining like a little girl about my pretty new Safire2 189.--------------------------------------------------------------- There is a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness'. --Dave Barry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ninjaswooper 0 #29 January 31, 2005 QuoteQuoteThere's enough stress as it is and this is probably the lowest paying/ least appreciated/respected jobs at dropzones. Huh? Now that's funny, I don't care who ya' are. Sorry, but I know packers that can walk away with $1000 a weekend. I'm sure a grand a weekend is possible, but I know AFF/tandem/video people who have managed to make close to 75k a year.... Now, for a packer to achieve this amount it would take 15000 sport packs, or 7500 tandems... let's stick with the sport jobs... assuming we have perfect weather every single day, that's 41 pack jobs a day... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jskydiver22 0 #30 January 31, 2005 I was always been at my DZ since i was 10 or 11 so i was just kind of put into it. Now that im 16 and jump...i dont pack as much but im still one of the main packers there. I would suggest calling dropzones and seeing if they need a packer or not. We, as packers at our DZ normally share the student pack jobs, and we get certain people that we pack for. If one of us is feeling bad we will let the other have it. But, most of the time you will get someone that will keep coming back to you. As for paying for the reserve pack job if you pack a mal. I wouldnt unless it was directly related to my pack job. You will have good days and bad days. Student pack jobs always wore me out. I would rather pack a slippery new 119 or 109 over an old worn out f-111 288 manta any day. Other people are opposite. Bring plenty of water to the DZ!! --I don't even know enough to know that I dont know-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mark 102 #31 January 31, 2005 QuoteI know AFF/tandem/video people who have managed to make close to 75k a year. 75K = 1500 jumps x $50 net per jump, i.e. after depreciation, rigging and other maintenance, and, of course, main packs. Mark Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #32 January 31, 2005 QuoteI'm curious; why do you charge an extra buck for a larger canopy? Isn't it the same procedure, the same number of folds, the same number of line stows, etc.? Yeah, it's more fabric, but how does that equate to more work? I've never agreed with the policy to charge more for 190 or above, personally. The only thing that should be charged more for packing are tandems, since there are fairly complicated systems to deal with (drogue release, etc).--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #33 January 31, 2005 QuoteI've never agreed with the policy to charge more for 190 or above, personally. The only thing that should be charged more for packing are tandems, since there are fairly complicated systems to deal with (drogue release, etc). Agreed! A good packer will not have any issues packing a bigger canopy. I never charged extra for the larger ones (when I was a packer) which would lead to my customers giving me a tip at the end of the day. Since I was packing in the RW area, most of the canopies I saw were 150s or 170s and I would still pack more than the packer in the freefly area who's average size was 107. Packing is a great way to make money and to destroy your body. (Your lunch break is usually only during weather holds!) Over the course of one season I went from paying a packer to packing 80+ in one day. If I was lucky and there were not many pack jobs during the week, I would have healed enough to work again the following weekend. I agree with others - if they demand you pay for the reserve repack then you don't want to work for them or pack for that person. Packers are luxury items._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jskydiver22 0 #34 January 31, 2005 I would almost agree with charging an extra dollar for a 190. I started packing when i was about 5'1 and 100 lbs. When i was that size...i hated to see someone come drop down a big ol' 190. I dont know what it is...but at our dropzone...its rare to see tips. I would have no problem with getting an extra dollar for a 190 and above. Im about 5'6-5'7 now and about 127 lbs. and 190's are still somewhat big. True its the same number of folds and procedures...but thats still a lot of material to deal with...especially when they are BRAND NEW. --I don't even know enough to know that I dont know-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #35 January 31, 2005 QuoteI would have no problem with getting an extra dollar for a 190 and above.... True its the same number of folds and procedures...but thats still a lot of material to deal with...especially when they are BRAND NEW. So, do you charge an extra dollar for canopies that are brand new? If that makes packing more difficult, just like a larger canopy, then to be consistent, a new canopy would also justify a surcharge. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #36 January 31, 2005 QuoteI would almost agree with charging an extra dollar for a 190. I started packing when i was about 5'1 and 100 lbs. When i was that size...i hated to see someone come drop down a big ol' 190. I dont know what it is...but at our dropzone...its rare to see tips. I would have no problem with getting an extra dollar for a 190 and above. Im about 5'6-5'7 now and about 127 lbs. and 190's are still somewhat big. True its the same number of folds and procedures...but thats still a lot of material to deal with...especially when they are BRAND NEW. I used to pack a brand new 230 and 260 Sabre 2 all the time. At 5'9" they are still big canopies. I never had a problem packing them while using the reverse S-Fold method....and could pack them in the same time others packed their 135. I never saw why that would cost them an extra dollar._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jskydiver22 0 #37 February 1, 2005 I dont know, personal opinion i guess. I've just never had a problem with making an extra buck if i could get it. For me it feels a lot better to have a 120 over your shoulder than a 190 and up. I also feel like I have more control over it. Not saying that i make a mess of the big ones, it just feels like more of a pain to me. I wouldnt charge an extra dollar for new canopies because If they are small...they just feel easier to deal with me. I dont get an extra dollar either way i was just saying it would be nice to. --I don't even know enough to know that I dont know-- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeepman222 0 #38 February 1, 2005 as the owner of a bigger than 190 main (230 op) i can see why some charge the extra dollar to me it is worth it my packers works hard and has never packed me a bad opening took me a while to get in his rotation since he has so many customers and so few packers at the dz I hate to pack and as long as can afford to pay someone else to do it and he does it right I will pay. if I do not like the pack job or feel it is not worth it then will pack it my self. as far as the reserve repack goes after a mal do not care if he pays or not cause if i feel it was his fault he will not be packing for me anymore anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #39 February 1, 2005 >So, do you charge an extra dollar for canopies that are brand new? After a while, new fabric doesn't bother you as much (at least it doesn't bother me.) Big canopies still take an extra step though (the additional S-fold.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #40 February 1, 2005 I generally charge an extra $1 for 190s and larger. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #41 February 1, 2005 QuoteBig canopies still take an extra step though (the additional S-fold.) What? I've packed many differen canopy sizes from sub 100 swoopers all the way up in sizes to nearly 400sq ft on tandems and I still did 3 folds, to the S-fold. Do you only fold smaller canopies in half or something?--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #42 February 1, 2005 Charging an extra dollar or two is all a socialist, communist plot by the packers' union to increase wages. It is along the same lines as their requesting jumpers to cock their pilotchutes, set their own brakes, uncock their own sliders, bring them Gatorade and sandwiches in the heat of the day and beer in the evenings, etc. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #43 February 1, 2005 QuoteCharging an extra dollar or two is all a socialist, communist plot by the packers' union to increase wages. Haha, a packers union would be cool. QuoteIt is along the same lines as their requesting jumpers to cock their pilotchutes, set their own brakes, uncock their own sliders, bring them Gatorade and sandwiches in the heat of the day and beer in the evenings, etc. Anyhoo, cocking the pilot chute and unstowing the slider is something i always do. If the customer does it fine, but i'm gonna re-do it anyway. I never ask my customers to do any of that stuff. The fact that some of them think of me during the hot summer months and bring me gatorade is just plain nice of them. But i'm also nice and go beyond my "packing duties" at times also. I often times will attach a new main for a regular customer at no charge, and i've also met some customers at the landing area to pass off their other rig and gather the one they just landed with so they can do back to backs. I guess it comes down to, if you don't like what a packer charges/expects, don't use that packer. I've had to tell some people that i won't pack for them anymore because they annoy me as a customer. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #44 February 1, 2005 You said it, Rob! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Designer 0 #45 February 1, 2005 The School I "Do Not" work for set the price.They pay $6 for all student canopies.I mostly do the sport rigs.$6 was an Idea for the larger parachutes because I spend more time on them than the smaller sport rigs.Everybody at our DZ agreed with me,so there ya go.rob Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fields 0 #46 February 1, 2005 Does getting your ticket make you responsible for other packers' work? I was told by several riggers that, if I am the only person in a packing area with a certificate, then I am responsible for directly supervising all the non-rigger's pack jobs. Please tell me it isn't true. I paid a lot of money to "legitamize" my packing, now I find out it makes me liable for others who haven't."And the sky is blue and righteous in every direction" Survivor Chuck Palahniuk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #47 February 1, 2005 QuoteDoes getting your ticket make you responsible for other packers' work? I was told by several riggers that, if I am the only person in a packing area with a certificate, then I am responsible for directly supervising all the non-rigger's pack jobs. Please tell me it isn't true. I paid a lot of money to "legitamize" my packing, now I find out it makes me liable for others who haven't. If you are the only packer on the mat with a ticket? If you work for the dz and oversee a packing staff the short answer is: yes. Read the FAR_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ninjaswooper 0 #48 February 1, 2005 QuoteCharging an extra dollar or two is all a socialist, communist plot by the packers' union to increase wages. It is along the same lines as their requesting jumpers to cock their pilotchutes, set their own brakes, uncock their own sliders, bring them Gatorade and sandwiches in the heat of the day and beer in the evenings, etc. Ha, I'm pretty sure this post is tongue-in-cheek.... But charging an extra dollar is communist, i'd say that the extra weight, and yes, extra time an extremely large parachute takes me to pack is probably worth about a 5th of a normal size pack job in opportunity cost. In the extra time I spend with that huge mfer... i could be a fifth of the way into a smaller pack job making the same 5 bucks... If I pack a large one at the cost of getting another small one, I've cost myself money. It's simple market economics, i.e. capitalism, not socialism. Unfortunately I'm a little bitch working for the man, so all my sport rigs pay 5 bucks. Sounds more like fascism to me. As for the cock this, unstow that bs, I'd prefer you leave it to me since I'm going to have to check it anyway. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #49 February 1, 2005 QuoteDoes getting your ticket make you responsible for other packers' work? I was told by several riggers that, if I am the only person in a packing area with a certificate, then I am responsible for directly supervising all the non-rigger's pack jobs. Please tell me it isn't true. I paid a lot of money to "legitamize" my packing, now I find out it makes me liable for others who haven't. My short answer to you is NO, you are not responsible for the work of uncertificated packers unless you choose to take that responsibility. When the regulation was proposed I was concerned that I, as a certificated rigger, might be pegged as a supervising rigger, even if I was just in the general area of uncertificated packers. So, I submitted a comment to the proposed regulation asking that supervising riggers must actively take responsibility for the work being supervised. My comments were incorporated into the final rule. Supervision, as defined by the regulation requires three things: 1) Some level of training 2) Some level of ongoing supervision 3) A clear willingness to take responsibility for the work being supervised. See Article 11 at:http://ranchskydive.com/safety/index.htmTom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fields 0 #50 February 1, 2005 Thanks for the answer. >The FAA comments regarding the NPRM were included in the Federal Register on April 13, 1999 and May 9, 2001. These are only proposed rules or have they incorporated into the FAR? ooops you answered that. You said your comments were incorporated into the final rule regarding supervision. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
