Stall?

[huka551 0]

Why would you want to stall your parchute? I understand when you flare to land, it is a stall, and it is important to know what kind of effort it takes for the particualar canopy to stall. But isn't that a bad idea to collapse a good canopy with you under it?

Muff Brother 3723

[chuckbrown 0]

It's a good idea to practice stalls at a relatively high altitude so you'll know at what point the canopy will stall. You may eventually find yourself landing off the DZ and having to sink your canopy into a very tight landing area. By knowing the stall point, you won't accidently stall your canopy at too low an altitude to fully recover.

Plus, it's fun to play with your canopy.

[huka551 0]

If you stall your canopy, and it collapses (even at a high altitude) how long, if at all, will it take for it to reinflate? And wouldn't you be able to tell that just from landing it lots of times?

Muff Brother 3723

[chuckbrown 0]

That'll depend on the canopy size, winds, your weight. No matter how long it takes, if you do it up high you'll get a chance to see how the canopy responds to different control inputs without having to worry about the ground eating you up. You'll never learn the stall point just by landing since you never actually go into a full stall until after your feet touch the ground (hopefully).

[huka551 0]

I think I would shit myself under a collapsed canopy that was just fine and I collapsed it...on purpose! Maybe not

Muff Brother 3723

[mr2mk1g 10]

That's half the fun.

[MrBrant 0]

I just about did.

It was fuckin awesome

Really neat experience.

[pilotdave 0]

I didn't do a full stall until I took a canopy course with Scott Miller. It's just one more way to learn about flying your canopy. Taking it right to a limit, but under safe, controlled conditions. If I had ever done a full stall by mistake before taking the course, it woulda scared the crap out of me. But when Scott shows a video of what it's going to look like, and then you go up there and see the exact same thing (the canopy folding right in half, like an F-14 sweeping it's wings), it just builds confidence and you'll know the warning signs so you never get into that situation by mistake.

It's fun too!

Dave

[CygnusX-1 42]

I also didn’t do a stall before I took a canopy control course. I think that is when you should do something like that. You really need to know what is going to happen before you try it and freak out. But since we are talking about stalls here and someone might try this without actually getting any advice from someone, recovering from a stall you want to let up on the toggles SLOWLY. That is, of course, unless you want to go for a ride…

My public service announcement for today.

[CanuckInUSA 0]

Just so that you understand this, a wing can stall at any air speed and at any attitude. Yes in controlled circumstances our canopies only stall when we pull down on toggles and/or rear risers. But a wing can be in a stall condition while diving towards the ground as well (something you likely won't experience anytime soon under a large student type canopy). So as previously stated by others here, the real benefit in this drill is to recogonize what a stall feels like (where the canopy experiences that buffeting feeling and you get that seat of the pants sinking feeling). You don't need to completely collapse your canopy in this drill to learn something. But it is important to know the slow flight characteristics of each canopy that you jump so that you don't stall out your canopy X number of feet above the ground.

Try not to worry about the things you have no control over

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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Why would you want to stall your parchute?

So you know what it feels like and can therefore avoid it. So that it doesn't scare you. So that you know the slow flight limits. So that you know how to recover smoothly. In some situations with some canopies you want to be able to do it and fly backwards.

It's worth noting here that stall speeds are different for dynamic (you pull on the toggles or rear risers quickly) and static (you gradually apply control input without swinging out in front of the canopy and causing a pitch change) situations.

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I understand when you flare to land, it is a stall

That's usually not the best way to land a modern parachute. Flown correctly at the end you'll have some lift but not enough to support your weight. You can stop flying at a slower speed if you take some of the load on your feet. You'll set down with less vertical speed when the wing is producing some lift versus having no lift when it stalls. The converse of this is trying to run before that happens - I did that last weekend, judo rolled, and ended up with all my white covered in dirt. This is much less critical on larger, slower parachutes.

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But isn't that a bad idea to collapse a good canopy with you under it?

It's not a big deal if you recover smoothly. It's definately better than stalling accidentally when trying to land or stalling and then surging forwards.

[Jonsmann 0]

A stall does not have to involve a canopy collapse. If you stall your canopy and let it develop the canopy will at some point collapse.
I stall my canopy on almost every jump up high, just to be reminded of the stall point. When I try canopies other than my usual one, I always stall it but I never let it develop to a collapse. My Diablo is a bit unforgiving when recovering from a collapse!
Stalls done at altitude are harmless and everyone should do it on occasion. Just be careful about letting them develop into a full collapse.

Jacques

[Travman 6]

My instructor got me to stall mine, then let one toggle up really fast - that'll give you a scare if you've never done it before (do it high!)

[indyz 1]

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My instructor got me to stall mine, then let one toggle up really fast - that'll give you a scare if you've never done it before (do it high!)

It should be noted that this maneuver, even at relatively light wingloadings, can easily cause unrecoverable line twists. Students should never try this without consulting their instructors, and more experienced jumpers should have a lot of practice with less drastic stall recovery options before attempting this. (You couldn't pay me to do it, even with my "big" Triathlon 160)

[Kris 0]

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My instructor got me to stall mine, then let one toggle up really fast - that'll give you a scare if you've never done it before (do it high!)

Huh?! That's a sure-fire way to get into unrecoverable line twists. A stall should always be recovered with smooth, even upwards toggle stroke.

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[mattjw916 2]

people have died doing that...

edit: link added... http://www.skydivingfatalities.info/search.asp?MinDate=1%2F1%2F2003&MaxDate=3%2F6%2F2005&Place=&State=&Country=&Category=&MinAge=17&MaxAge=78&UnknownAge=on&MinJumps=0&MaxJumps=15000&UnknownJumps=on&AAD=&RSL=&Description=stall&DescriptionOperator=OR&Lessons=&LessonsOperator=OR

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[DrewGPM 0]

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My instructor got me to stall mine, then let one toggle up really fast - that'll give you a scare if you've never done it before (do it high!)

My friend Eduardo DIED in 2004 doing exactly that. Please, for the love of god, don't mess around with this!
It is dangerous on all canopies, but on some canopies is creates an unrecoverable malfunction.

[FrogNog 1]

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My instructor got me to stall mine, then let one toggle up really fast - that'll give you a scare if you've never done it before (do it high!)

One or two of my instructors suggested I do that, too. I think they were testing my ground/book knowledge. I told them I didn't think it was a good enough idea for me to do it personally.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[kelpdiver 2]

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My instructor got me to stall mine, then let one toggle up really fast - that'll give you a scare if you've never done it before (do it high!)

It should be noted that this maneuver, even at relatively light wingloadings, can easily cause unrecoverable line twists. Students should never try this without consulting their instructors, and more experienced jumpers should have a lot of practice with less drastic stall recovery options before attempting this. (You couldn't pay me to do it, even with my "big" Triathlon 160)

Yes, when I was compiling the landing fatalities spreadsheet, I found a handful of cases like that where the person induced line twists at altitudes as high as 1000ft+.

I'm not sure what one learns from the experience other than don't. It's a given that it should be done much higher, and perhaps with a third chute.