Low Jump Numbers at the WFFC

[winsor 186]

One of the biggest hurtles in skydiving is getting the first 50 or so jumps. Training is expensive and proceeds at the convenience of the instructor (and the weather), and getting enough air time that anyone else wants to jump with you is just as bad. No number of air-baths is going to get up jumpers to want you on their load, and paying for quality jumps absorbs great quantities of time and money.

IMHO the single best place to go from your first tandem to being in on formation skydives is the World Freefall Convention. We are geared toward developing the greatest level of skill - from the standpoint of safety and practice - in the least amount of time, for the least amount of money. People who show up on Day One and can't even funnel a formation properly by Day Ten are organizing their own skydives together, executing them safely and having a great time.

For complete beginners, the AFF concession is geared to getting you in the air and through the training process in manner that justifies the "accelerated" in its name.

Jumpers cleared for solo jumping have the option of jumping with any Coach or with the Free Convention Load Organizers. The rule for the Free Convention Load Organizers is that our slots are covered when jumping on a 4-way or better, so a coached jump or 3-way drill dive does cost the price of an extra slot - otherwise we are volunteers.

A-license-qualified jumpers have the further option of jumping with a Mentor. A Mentor is an up-jumper who agrees work with a low-timer, passing on skills and working with them to stay safe. We invite up-jumpers to register as Mentors.

After 50 jumps or when cleared by one of the staff (we work with you, and are happy to sign off someone who is heads-up about safety procedures), jumpers are free to jump without a Coach, Mentor or Load Organizer. They are, of course, welcome to jump on organized loads.

Paradoxically, the WFFC is one of the safest places to learn to skydive. The people who jump with us are drilled on safe procedures from soup to nuts, and get used to flight planning that minimizes their exposure to the unexpected.

In any event, if you are either a student or a low timer, the Convention is the place to go.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[BillyVance 34]

As long as they always maintain their awareness of the surroundings whether in the air or on the ground. You never know when something may be falling to earth and not getting divine intervention...


Haven't seen you in a loooong time Winsor! What have you been up to these days?

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[tdog 0]

Great post... I almost did not read the thread because I thought this was going to be another critique of attendance based upon the subject. You should change the subject to "WFFC is a great place to learn".

[Elisha 1]

Being "raised" on a cessna DZ, the first few boogies I went to I was a little unnerved by all the other canopy traffic...even though I had 35+ jumps already.

Now that I've jumped at a few boogies and have jumped several other times at some turbine dzs, I'm more comfortable. I don't see how someone w/o their license would feel "safe" at the WFFC though. Maybe you didn't totally explain yourself though.

[agent_lead 0]

where and when does this event take place?

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www.facebook.com/agentlead

[flyangel2 2]

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I don't see how someone w/o their license would feel "safe" at the WFFC though. Maybe you didn't totally explain yourself though.

As one of the LOs at WFFC, I can say that having the WFFC at Rantoul, there seems to be more room in the air. There are also lots and lots of places to land.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[packing_jarrett 0]

last year they wouldn't let me jump

edit: wouldn't

Na' Cho' Cheese

[blithedj 0]

Thank you so much for your post.

I just started training with our Collegiate Club and the local DZ here (we're a small C-182 DZ). One thing I have been looking forward to is being able to attend these boogies and jump out of some larger aircraft and meet some really cool people.

One of my primary concerns if I was going to attend the WFFC this upcoming year was high volumes of canopy traffic and just general air traffic volume. Even if I have 50+ jumps by the time the WFFC comes around, Most if not all of my jumps will be at a small dropzone where there are no more than 4 canopies in the air at a time anyways.

How on earth do they coordinate dropping multiple loads at the same time and handling all that canopy traffic?

And also, for people with low(er) jump numbers, what kind of programs/people are around to give canopy help concerning high traffic and high volume jumps? I'd hope that some sort of canopy courses are offered at the WFFC for those who don't have as much experience at higher volume DZ's?

I'm really looking forward to hitting up some boogies this summer when classes are out. I can't wait to jump into the festivities and have a great time.

[Andy9o8 0]

One thing I might suggest is if there are any larger DZ's within striking distance of you, with larger turbine aircraft, you may want to spend a couple of weekends jumping there to get the feel of a bigger & busier DZ.

Also, especially during summer boogie season, there are assorted medium-sized "regional" boogies taking place at various locations. If you can get to one, it might be a good way to acclimate yourself to the boogie scene before going to a big one like WFFC.

[mattjw916 2]

One nice thing about WFFC versus for example the Eloy Holiday Boogie is that the landing area(s) are much larger. Sure, there are plenty of canopies in the air, but the sky seemed less busy at WFFC than most of the other boogies I have been to because people aren't trying to crowd into tiny landing areas. Eloy has tons of space to land (like the surrounding desert), but people seem compelled to strafe the beer line and collisions have resulted in the past.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[winsor 186]

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Being "raised" on a cessna DZ, the first few boogies I went to I was a little unnerved by all the other canopy traffic...even though I had 35+ jumps already.

Now that I've jumped at a few boogies and have jumped several other times at some turbine dzs, I'm more comfortable. I don't see how someone w/o their license would feel "safe" at the WFFC though. Maybe you didn't totally explain yourself though.

Well, no, I did not get into the extensive details as to why this is the case.

I am not unusual among Load Organizers in that I go over safety fundamentals before jumping with someone for the first time, if for no other reason than to ensure we are on the same page.

I try to get people to develop a mental picture of where to fly to avoid traffic. If you are in "popular airspace," you are competing with the maddening crowd for elbow room. If you are in "unpopular airspace," you can pretty much guarantee that nobody is going to spiral down through your altitude.

Even at a venue as busy as the Convention, if the decision tree is kept simple and defined clearly in advance, a rank neophyte can decide where to fly to stay out of trouble and where to look to avoid collisions while doing so.

It only takes a couple of jumps with a thorough briefing and debrief before someone is comfortable with the procedures, and can then relax and let their skills develop.

FWIW, it is people who have, say, 300 jumps at a Cessna DZ that have the hardest time adapting - someone who goes through AFF at the Convention just deals with it from Jump #1 as part of the normal environment.

It seems counterintuitive, but the safest people at the Convention are often the low-timers who jump with the Load Organizers. They are quite happy to make safety their first priority, and they go ahead and jump safely.

If you come out and jump with us I think you will see what I mean, and I do not think you will be disappointed.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[piisfish 135]

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where and when does this event take place?

Rantoul, Illinois, end of july I think (used to be beginning of august). Check exact data on www.freefall.com

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[MarkM 0]

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One of the biggest hurtles in skydiving is getting the first 50 or so jumps. Training is expensive and proceeds at the convenience of the instructor (and the weather), and getting enough air time that anyone else wants to jump with you is just as bad.

I don't see where your first 50 jumps has to be expensive or hard to do at all. Once I passed AFF I did maybe 2 coach jumps to get my A license and the rest were fun jumps. A lot of them were on my own, experimenting with the air and practicing just learning how my body reacted to the air and the rest were with friends.

[LouDiamond 1]

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One nice thing about WFFC versus for example the Eloy Holiday Boogie is that the landing area(s) are much larger.

I think that is a terrible example and a false statement. The main landing area in Eloy is approximately the same width and length as the one at WFFC with far fewer obstacles to hit on the ground while on final.

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Eloy has tons of space to land (like the surrounding desert), but people seem compelled to strafe the beer line and collisions have resulted in the past.

The beer line at Eloy is by far the least of any worries as it is situated in such a manner that you have to approach it from one of the two approved landing directions. To do otherwise would mean one was breaking the 500' above the hanger rule. Like anywhere else, especially the WFFC, the single most faulted reason why we see collisions is due to people not following the established landing pattern. Eloy's main landing area rules are pretty cut and dry. If the main landing area landing rules are not to ones liking, one has the alternate landing area or the rest of Arizona to choose a place to land. That cannot be said for most Dzs and especially not WFFC where there are aircraft with blades turning waiting to take off or are landing along 2 of the main landing area axis.Thats not even taking into account the many tents, vehicles, booths, power lines, and the rest of the airfield and the surrounding base facilities. I log a lot of jumps at both locations and they each have their pluses and minuses. IMO, Eloy has more pluses than minuses due to the fact that the majority of the state is a safe landing area and the fact that even though Eloy has just as many planes flying as the WFFC has at any one time, there are probablly 2-300 fewer people at the event. You would be hard pressed to find anywhere else where one would have access to that many aircraft going at any one time, with the exception of the WFFC. With that said , I can see the appeal of the WFFC to those looking to do exactley what Winsor has described. In fact, it was a topic of discussion in the forums awhile back when they were tossing around the idea of letting low jump number/AFF jumpers attend WFFC. I won't revist that thread here in this one as there are some very good reason stated by both sides why it should/shouldn't be allowed to happen at WFFC in that thread already.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[mattjw916 2]

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I think that is a terrible example and a false statement. The main landing area in Eloy is approximately the same width and length as the one at WFFC with far fewer obstacles to hit on the ground while on final.

How is that a false statement? Eloy has two decent sized grass fields that are in no way as large as the combined area of the "L" shaped landing area at Rantoul + the swoop pond which is located quite a walk from the main area. Plus you could always land on the other side of the runways if you had too.

Both locations' landing areas a flanked by hazards that are equally bad whether they are tents, an RV park, or whatever. I've logged plenty of jumps in both locations and I found Rantoul to have more elbow room under canopy than Eloy during the Holiday Boogie. Maybe that's because Rantoul has more RWers that consistently pull lower than me so I don't have to deal with them... who knows?

Both places have landing direction problems from time to time, Eloy's are dealt with more effectively though. My personal observation is that Rantoul isn't half as bad as some people made it out to be. Eloy's south landing area was carnage on every load last year I was on with 2-3 landing directions on average. Even though there's a tetrahedron right there + "follow the first person down" in effect, it still didn't help much. Someone even hit the only tree in the entire state of Arizona that is located near the south landing area.

If properly supervised, briefed and mentored I don't see problems with low(er) jump people jumping at either location. I'd rather jump in Eloy personally, but Rantoul is far from the death trap that some people made it out to be before I went and saw for myself.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[bbarnhouse 0]

With plenty of jumps logged at both I will offer this.
Eloy's landing areas are set up as a runway system.
East to West or visa versa on the main

South to North or visa versa on the south(alternate) area.
First person sets the pattern.
I can not say the same at WFFC although people do attempt to fly the pattern. Its kinda of like driving...know the rules of the road.
I think there are more outs in Eloy, but that is just my opinion.

[pilotdave 0]

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don't see where your first 50 jumps has to be expensive or hard to do at all. Once I passed AFF I did maybe 2 coach jumps to get my A license and the rest were fun jumps.

You ever read the ISP? My post-AFF jumps were like yours. I think I did 2 coached jumps after AFF...maybe even after I got my A license, can't remember. But a DZ that follows the ISP doesn't work like that anymore. And it sure shows in the new A-licensed students. Damn they're so much better than I was when I got my A.

Dave

[LouDiamond 1]

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How is that a false statement? Eloy has two decent sized grass fields that are in no way as large as the combined area of the "L" shaped landing area at Rantoul

Key word here is combined. If you consider the north /south grass area and the pond at WFFC the main landing area then yes, it is larger than the main landing area at Eloy but those portions of landing are have never been called "main" landing areas at WFFC. The main landing area is the grass between the Organizer tents and the aircraft loading tents.

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My personal observation is that Rantoul isn't half as bad as some people made it out to be.

What years were you there? This years WFFC crowd was SIGNIFICANTLY smaller than previous years.I average about 100+ jumps during WFFC and slightly less at the Eloy Holiday Boogie and I have yet to see the sky over Eloy any where near the way it is over WFFC, to include this years WFFC.

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Even though there's a tetrahedron right there + "follow the first person down" in effect, it still didn't help much. Someone even hit the only tree in the entire state of Arizona that is located near the south landing area.

Well the one thing that cannot be controlled by anyone is peoples propensity to do dumb things under canopy. With that said I cannot tell you how many times people have actually landed next to or in front of spinning blades at WFFC. In fact it's almost a daily occurance. Landing problem issues have been discussed ad nauseum here in the forums and I doubt they will ever fully be resolved.

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If properly supervised, briefed and mentored I don't see problems with low(er) jump people jumping at either location

While I can point you to the can of worms that discussion brought up, my point to you was that your comparrison of the two seperate locations in relation to one another IMO is somewhat flawed.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[winsor 186]

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One of the biggest hurtles in skydiving is getting the first 50 or so jumps. Training is expensive and proceeds at the convenience of the instructor (and the weather), and getting enough air time that anyone else wants to jump with you is just as bad.

I don't see where your first 50 jumps has to be expensive or hard to do at all. Once I passed AFF I did maybe 2 coach jumps to get my A license and the rest were fun jumps. A lot of them were on my own, experimenting with the air and practicing just learning how my body reacted to the air and the rest were with friends.

I did not mean to say that the first 50 jumps have to be hard; but they can certainly be hard to come by.

For one thing, the logistics of going to the DZ to either get weathered out of maybe make a couple of jumps per jump day can be frustrating. It can be tough developing skills when you can barely get enough air time in to maintain a particular skill level.

Some people have to pay a premium to be in an environment where they can both jump a lot and make skydives that develop skill rapidly.

What I am trying to get across is that the Convention provides an environment wherein someone can show up unskilled and leave after ten days with a pretty solid level of competence.

Convention Load Organizers are volunteers, and our goal is to provide a safe and enjoyable environment for jumpers ranging from rank neophytes to world record holders.

If someone wants to try CRW, we have people who do that. If the goal is to do big formations, we do that, too. If someone is entirely unfamiliar with jumping in a high-traffic environment, and just wants to do one-on-one drill dives, we are happy to do that as well.

Year after year I have seen people show up with very limited skills, but leave the Convention as heads-up skydivers after jumping with us for ten days. Going back to their home DZs, they find that their skills are now sufficient to participate safely on a wide range of skydives they would not have considered previously.

My main concern is that people assume they should not come to the Convention if they have very low experience, since there is hardly a better place for them to go. After jumping with us for ten days, they can do well pretty much anywhere.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[mattjw916 2]

I'm trying to figure out what the point of your argument is... I think we both agree that there are potential dangers at both boogies and at both places people do stupid shit. That's pretty much a given anywhere, even Eloy. I guess we'll find out in a couple weeks how "safe" the Holiday Boogie will be this year...

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[Hawkins121 0]

According to the Fatality database 2 people were killed during the WFFC in august 2005.

Is it normal for boogies of that size? I dont mean to hijack the thread but I am curious because I have never been to a boogie or convention and this type of thing would definetly affect my decision to attend one.

[winsor 186]

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According to the Fatality database 2 people were killed during the WFFC in august 2005.

Is it normal for boogies of that size? I dont mean to hijack the thread but I am curious because I have never been to a boogie or convention and this type of thing would definetly affect my decision to attend one.

In both cases people succumbed to pilot error.

The malfunctions involved would have been identical at a Cessna DZ.

Playing with the malfunction, cutting away low and trying to get stable before deploying the reserve is a bad plan, regardless of where you jump.

If you show a normal level of prudence (don't jump hung-over or overtired, don't spiral blindly through popular airspace, open at a proper altitude and observe your hard deck, and so forth), you are no more likely to come to grief at the Convention than anywhere else.

If we observe you making bad decisions, we may make suggestions that improve your life expectancy if followed. Unfortunately, some people insist on making choices that result in their injury or death, and some of them do so at the Convention.

Our goal is not to be safety-nazis, but for everyone to go home unhurt after having a very good time.

If you come to the Convention, feel free to stop by the Load Organizer's tent. Even if you do not jump with us, we will happily provide the Safety Briefing which details an approach that maximizes your likelihood of staying unhurt. Three of us have penned articles on the subject; mine is basically a checklist for use in flight planning.

At the Convention you have the best aircraft and aircrews in the business, and you might be surprised at how much energy is devoted to ensuring that our procedures are safe.

Your typical smaller DZ would have to be in operation for centuries to amass the experience that is concentrated at the Convention. If you make use of it, you will benefit.


Blue skies,

Winsor

[Hawkins121 0]

It was not my intention to attack the convention. I think the convention is a great idea. I am planning to be there next year. I was only wondering if there is a higher risk of injury at boogies etc. You cleared that up for me. Thanks for the info.

[winsor 186]

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Thank you so much for your post.

I just started training with our Collegiate Club and the local DZ here (we're a small C-182 DZ). One thing I have been looking forward to is being able to attend these boogies and jump out of some larger aircraft and meet some really cool people.

One of my primary concerns if I was going to attend the WFFC this upcoming year was high volumes of canopy traffic and just general air traffic volume. Even if I have 50+ jumps by the time the WFFC comes around, Most if not all of my jumps will be at a small dropzone where there are no more than 4 canopies in the air at a time anyways.

How on earth do they coordinate dropping multiple loads at the same time and handling all that canopy traffic?

And also, for people with low(er) jump numbers, what kind of programs/people are around to give canopy help concerning high traffic and high volume jumps? I'd hope that some sort of canopy courses are offered at the WFFC for those who don't have as much experience at higher volume DZ's?

I'm really looking forward to hitting up some boogies this summer when classes are out. I can't wait to jump into the festivities and have a great time.

First off, the aircrews at the WFFC are the best in the business. These are not 320 hour pilots trying to build time, flying for aircraft owners trying to pay off airplanes they can't afford - they are the Varsity.

The level of coordination between the various operations at the Convention is superb. If you listen to the radio communications between the various aircrews and the ground support staff, you rapidly conclude that these people are very good at what they do.

Larry Hill's people, Paul Fayard's people, Mike Mullins, Fleahop, Rod Tinney and the specialty aircrews are as good as they get.

The timing and separation between loads at the Convention is choreographed brilliantly, and you have a greater assurance of separation between successive loads there than much of anywhere else (except, of course, at Paul Fayard's place, or Larry Hill's place...).

As far as how to fly your parachute safely in a high-traffic environment, we have that worked out to a science. If you come to the Load Organizers' tent, we can give you a clear and simple breakdown of how to do so. Every phase of jump operations has been addressed in our procedures, and using the Cliff's Notes version will keep you out of trouble (safety should be simple).

We have jumpers between 0 and 200 jumps on a regular basis, and canopy traffic is simply not an issue.

Where problems arise is with people with 300 jumps who try to fly like they did at their Cessna DZ; usually the problem is heralded by a loud "Hey! Watch this!"

Where people have followed the basic safety procedures, they have stayed safe. We are available for you, and are happy to work with you when you stop by (Tent 3 is where I hang out, but any of the Load Organizers are great).


Blue skies,

Winsor

[winsor 186]

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It was not my intention to attack the convention. I think the convention is a great idea. I am planning to be there next year. I was only wondering if there is a higher risk of injury at boogies etc. You cleared that up for me. Thanks for the info.

Not a problem.

Our goal is to provide an environment where people have the greatest freedom, yet work together to keep it safe. The best tool I have found is communication.

If, before boarding the aircraft, various groups talk amongst themselves and get a clear idea of who is doing what, they tend to work together to avoid problems in the air. They agree on giving enough of a delay between groups, order groups properly to maximize separation, and know to expect people opening at their declared altitudes.

If people actively perform an equipment check 2 minutes before exit, any misrouted straps and errant handles are caught before they become a problem.

Bringing up the issue of safety is responsible. Danger is a reality, and you can't expect it to go away if you ignore it.

In days past, the number of Boogie attendees who could expect to wind up in an ICU was substantial. It is now an unusual event if someone is injured enough to require more than first aid (and a lot of that involves alcohol after jump operations have closed).

We take safety seriously, and welcome comments that help us to get everyone home in one piece.


Blue skies,

Winsor