speedy 0 #26 December 19, 2005 QuoteIf you have to ask the question, are you really sure he is ready? I don't need to ask the question, I know the answer. With this thread I do have a lot of other people with over a 1000 jumps expressing their opinion. If I print this out and present it to him he might think about what he's doing. Then again..... I hope no one will object to me doing this. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dolph 0 #27 December 19, 2005 My bad. Country was set to Germany in reference to a comic Danish character (the blue hippo Dolph, who worships all things German). I'm talking about the Danish regulations. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #28 December 19, 2005 tell him he has a lot more to learn on the 119 safire or maybe even a slightly bigger wing before the crosffire... I learned what I kow about swooping on a sabre 2 170 weighing about the same and loved swooping that thing.... then I moved to the 150 for 150 jumpish and then the crossfire2... but learn on the safire (if not a larger size) cause if you dont titanium really fucks up your dancing moves which does not I repeat does not improve your luck with the ladies... and if all that stuff passed along doesnt help ask him for his measurements...and order a wheelchair and get a video camera to film it...and then just put him in the pond when he biffs Cheers Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #29 December 19, 2005 QuoteQuoteIf you have to ask the question, are you really sure he is ready? I don't need to ask the question, I know the answer. With this thread I do have a lot of other people with over a 1000 jumps expressing their opinion. If I print this out and present it to him he might think about what he's doing. Then again..... I hope no one will object to me doing this. No objection.I'll send him a copy of my spinal x-ray. . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #30 December 19, 2005 Didja notice his new canopy size is 9-1-1 backwards? I don't think that is just a coincidence. I'm sure he's a really good pilot and knows exactly what he's doing in all situations. <> Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #31 December 19, 2005 Quotemuch better..dont you agree though. I have been in the sport almost 12 years now. I have seen numerous deaths, accidents..etc etc etc. Sounds like you're not the guy having to do the first aid or the bag drag. I am. Sucks. I'm more into prevention. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnyshrek 0 #32 December 19, 2005 QuoteQuotemuch better..dont you agree though. I have been in the sport almost 12 years now. I have seen numerous deaths, accidents..etc etc etc. Sounds like you're not the guy having to do the first aid or the bag drag. I am. Sucks. I'm more into prevention. Prevention yes, But you can talk to some people until you are blue in the face. They still don't listen. I go out of my way for these young jumpers. But, you always get the ones that are better than us and don't listen. Everyone of my friends that have broken shit, femurs included have said the EXACT same thing. " I should of listened to everyone" Time after time this will keep happening. I say talk to them in a educational way. If after that the keep persisting, then fuck em. Let nature take its cause. Like i said. It just sucks for us sometimes dealing with the family and friends that have to endure all of this bullshit. Sometimes, it takes them femuring in to survive in this sporthttp://www.skydivethefarm.com do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #33 December 19, 2005 True words. I've seen people die doing exactly what they just said they wouldn't do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dbattman 0 #34 December 19, 2005 An additional factor to consider would be how he responds to concerns and criticism. If he takes them to heart, listens to what he's being told and uses that to reevaluate his decisions he has the maturity to progress into one heck of a skydiver in the future. If he immediately goes into defensive mode about how he's just better than most other pilots and he always flies conservative and we shouldn't be telling him he shouldn't be doing that because he just wants to prove us wrong you might want to check that his waivers are fresh and accurate and recommend he gets covered under medical. If DZs keeps letting people do this stuff they are asking for negligence lawsuits in the future, waiver or no waiver. Hopefully they'd still win, but that doesn't stop them from being filed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skinnyshrek 0 #35 December 19, 2005 QuoteAn additional factor to consider would be how he responds to concerns and criticism. If he takes them to heart, listens to what he's being told and uses that to reevaluate his decisions he has the maturity to progress into one heck of a skydiver in the future. If he immediately goes into defensive mode about how he's just better than most other pilots and he always flies conservative and we shouldn't be telling him he shouldn't be doing that because he just wants to prove us wrong you might want to check that his waivers are fresh and accurate and recommend he gets covered under medical. If DZs keeps letting people do this stuff they are asking for negligence lawsuits in the future, waiver or no waiver. Hopefully they'd still win, but that doesn't stop them from being filed. What next? Smokers will be suing tobacco companies Like someone previously stated. Get video. Nothing better than watching stupidity saturday evening over a few beers. I showed Billy Vance some dumbass video. I believe i heard him say WTF was he thinking...different videos same response..lol Keep them coming folks.http://www.skydivethefarm.com do you realize that when you critisize people you dont know over the internet, you become part of a growing society of twats? ARE YOU ONE OF THEM? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,426 #36 December 19, 2005 >Do you let him jump? In an ideal world - You tell him he's making a mistake. Since he is a newer jumper and you're more experienced, he goes back to the 135. Reality - You tell him he's making a mistake. He says "Yeah, but I'm fine, I landed the Safire 119 OK and this is the same size." You point out that one landing isn't really good experience, and the Crossfire is a lot more aggressive. "I'll be careful," he says. You tell him the stories of other people who have said this and died. "Jesus, I'm not going to die. It's a canopy. Big deal. What are you, my mother? Get off my fucking back!" You get the D+TA and DZO to talk to him. He says the same thing. The DZO tells him he can't jump this canopy at his DZ. He storms off and drives 5 hours to another DZ. Now, this guy can learn from his mistakes, so he tells THIS DZO that he has 50 jumps on the Crossfire 119. DZO lets him jump it. He takes out a 4-way team on landing; there is much ill will. He goes up again. This time he breaks his pelvis on landing. (And yes, that really happened, although I think it was a Stiletto instead of a Crossfire, and it happened over a few months.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dbattman 0 #37 December 19, 2005 Quote What next? Smokers will be suing tobacco companies Like someone previously stated. Get video. Nothing better than watching stupidity saturday evening over a few beers. I showed Billy Vance some dumbass video. I believe i heard him say WTF was he thinking...different videos same response..lol Keep them coming folks. EGGGGGSACTLY! Wonderful example. McDonalds made you obese, Milwaukee Brewing Company wrecked your liver and the Jack Daniel's Distillery caused your alcoholism. Careful, or we'll get moved to SC. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dharma1976 0 #38 December 19, 2005 QuoteSometimes, it takes them femuring in to survive in this sport and to be truthfull...thats what it took me, and unfortunately titanium seems to add a certain wisdom factor to people who didnt listen, and THEN they seek the neccesairy advice and coaching to not do it again.... I wish I had video of me laying around last winter instead of being at a holiday boogie high on perkacete and drinking guiness in my bed hopping up and down 2 flights of stairs carrying food upstairs to my bed etc etc etc to send the original poster to show how much glory is involved in not listening :-P oh well Davehttp://www.skyjunky.com CSpenceFLY - I can't believe the number of people willing to bet their life on someone else doing the right thing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #39 December 19, 2005 Hey Bill, you forget the ... "you have not seen me fly my canopy so you don't know if I am good enough for the Xfire". Three people, all instructors, all with over a 1000 jumps, all saying it's not a good idea. But he still wants to jump it. So I phone someone who knows how he flies his canopy from the DZ where he jumps more often. This person is qualified up to the eyeballs, AFF Instructor/examiner, Tandem Instructor, Rigger, zillions of jumps, a real nice guy. And guess what.. He said "yes, I think he's OK to jump the XFire". So what do I do? There's no law against it. I let him jump it. At the moment he's still alive and walking. At the moment...... Edited to add this: There are a number of people that have voted "depends on skill/training". No one seems to have put this argument forward in the discussion. Why? Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigbearfng 16 #40 December 19, 2005 Hey, where's Ron at for this one??? Are you on vacation? Or given up?! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jumpah 0 #41 December 20, 2005 QuoteExperience is a little under 2 years in the sport, total 238 jumps, exit weight 194 lbs (88kg). Since off student gear has been jumping mainly a Spingo 160. Gad...my exit weight is 215. I can't comprehend why a 119 is so important to fly. Other than status, is it really that much more fun than others? As has been said throughout this forum, maybe most of the time you'll land something agressive OK, but its that one bad jump that'll hose your year badly. I've seen the old-timers at Z-hills having a good time in their retirement years, sitting on the benches by the plane doing their dirt dive together. Thats my idea of a good retirement. Fuck golf . Good luck to ya. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RedassSkychic 0 #42 December 20, 2005 Quote EGGGGGSACTLY! Wonderful example. McDonalds made you obese, Milwaukee Brewing Company wrecked your liver and the Jack Daniel's Distillery caused your alcoholism. Careful, or we'll get moved to SC. Hey! Jack Daniel's DID cause my alcoholism! "If toast always lands butter-side down, and cats always land on their feet, what happens if you strap toast on the back of a cat and drop it?" --Steven Wright Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #43 December 20, 2005 QuoteHe said "yes, I think he's OK to jump the XFire". So what do I do? There's no law against it. I let him jump it. nothing forces you to let him jump either... you can tell him : Go jump your cnopy... somewhere else. Explain your reasons, he might be thankful for it one day. Or not scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy 0 #44 December 20, 2005 QuoteGo jump your cnopy... somewhere else. Yeah, but if you do that they get all sulky and bad mouth your DZ all over the place. Hey don't got to Marl, they are full of canopy Nazi's there. But we are not ! So what do you do? You let him jump and hope that you don't have to fill out the accident report. Dave Fallschirmsport Marl Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #45 December 20, 2005 QuoteSo I phone someone who knows how he flies his canopy from the DZ where he jumps more often. This person is qualified up to the eyeballs, AFF Instructor/examiner, Tandem Instructor, Rigger, zillions of jumps, a real nice guy. And guess what.. He said "yes, I think he's OK to jump the XFire". Doesn't surprise me in the least. Lots of very highly experienced and "qualified" (i.e. multiple pieces of paper) people give what many of us would consider to be bad advice regarding gear selection. I know of a kid with 100-ish jumps who is already on a Stiletto at 1.2. When I mentioned this to the dzo (who is very highly experienced and has lots of pieces of paper) his comment was "well, it's lightly loaded." I encountered the same attitude numerous times when I was selling gear for a living (which is part of why I don't sell gear anymore). imho, those with pieces of paper who advise people to exceed manufacturer recommendations when selecting their canopies are the biggest current obstacle to reducing canopy related injuries and deaths. And yet they are the very people we advise jumpers asking about canopy choice to go talk to... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #46 December 20, 2005 QuoteQuoteGo jump your cnopy... somewhere else. Yeah, but if you do that they get all sulky and bad mouth your DZ all over the place. Hey don't got to Marl, they are full of canopy Nazi's there. But we are not ! So what do you do? You let him jump and hope that you don't have to fill out the accident report.so ? Don't let him jump, inform other DZ's about your decision. Infor DFV about it, have your decision emailed to DFV members, maybe without naming, but stating you won't let 200 jump wonders jump 1.6 loaded Crossfires at your DZ. Don't let badmouthing take a victory on a good reputation. The day he impacts in Marl, people will say YOU are the Arsc*loch who let him jump that canopy at your DZ.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hexadecimal 0 #47 December 21, 2005 QuoteXfire at 1.6 with 250 jumps? Let me guess, he's an awesome swooper. Not as awesome as me Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Falko 0 #48 December 21, 2005 I agree with Piisfish. Don't let 200 jump wonders specify the level of safety on your DZ. That should be up to the DZO or club board (Marl is a club IIRC?). QuoteYeah, but if you do that they get all sulky and bad mouth your DZ all over the place. Hey don't got to Marl, they are full of canopy Nazi's there. Let me put a twist in here: How about if, say, 2 or 3 potential customers won't go to Marl because word of mouth is that you let 200 jump wonders on highly loaded XFires cannonball the landing area, compromising everyones safety? I believe there is a DFV recommendation (DFV-AHB, page 157) requiring 300 jumps minimum & 150 jumps in 12 months to jump a 1.5 WL. Ich betrachte die Religion als Krankheit, als Quelle unnennbaren Elends für die menschliche Rasse. (Bertrand Russell, engl. Philosoph, 1872-1970) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
