Newbie skydiver Frustrated

[newbieforever 0]

I'm a new jumper with 17 jumps. Today I went for a jump after a 16 day hiatus. I'm so frustrated with my jump today that I was pondering why do I even jump when I'm not having fun out there. So pl. I need some words of wisdom and some pointers/advise that will put me in the right mind set that I was in when I set out to learn to skydive.
So this is what happened today.
I was doin solo with a floating exit (exit altitude of 13K), tumbled and immediately got stable, checked alti, I'm at 11K. Now I start to spin slowly, I relax and give opposite input and I do not see any change. So i arch hard and the spin starts to grow fast and fast. As the spin was getting faster I was thinkin to myself "this is it". Now I'm spinning so fat and I remember looking at my alti and it read blury (8.5K). I'm like "what is going on" why can't I stop this spin, toe taps and arch no change I'm still spnning out of control, I immediately remembered reading on some thread that track out of spin. I track and still spining. I was just wishing I get to 4500 feet so that I can pull the PC and get done with this. at around 6K I start to feel a lil disoriented after spinning from 11k to 4.5K. And I pull and get a line twist and start kicking and it took good 10 -12 sec of kicking to fix the line twists.
Did my checks and boy was I glad to be under a clean canopy.
I really feel frustrated, that after finishing my AFF I'm still having stability issues, I feel terrible about myself. I should be moving forward instead I'm still having issues falling stable. I really want to do well, learn it right, always apply the right things learnt. I was wondering has anyone experienced this?. How do you overcome from a bad jump? I'm just afraid, I'll mess up my next jump as well.

[NWFlyer 2]

Skydiving is very rarely a purely linear progression. Stuff that you "get" one day will frustrate the hell out of you the next day.

Talk with your favorite instructor about what's going on, ask if he or she has any advice. You will have frustrating jumps, it's just part of the sport. Right now it's stability, later on it'll be something else. There's always something new to learn in this sport and it can feel like an uphill battle at times.

But if you love it, you'll fight through this stuff. I had a very frustrating student progression and have had my ups and downs since then. I'm at over 200 jumps having trouble with landings, something that I had previously "gotten." I'm just working through it, frustrating though it may be at times. Almost everyone has been there - don't let the "naturals" tell you otherwise.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[Floats18 0]

Remember that you don't have to wait until 4500 feet to pull!

*EDIT: Although, if you are on a group skydive, make sure that other jumpers are aware of your intentions - plan the dive and dive the plan*

If you find yourself wishing that you were under a deploying canopy it might be best to put yourself there.

When in doubt, whip it out!

Use a Coach and see if you can get a coach that will shoot video of you. It might not be obvous to you what your body is doing, but there is nothing better than video for fixing body position.

Stick with it... SKYDIVING ROCKS!

--- and give them wings so they may fly free forever

DiverDriver in Training

[tdog 0]

Sounds like you need some good coaching/instruction with some video so you can see what is going on.

I have had bad days before in skydiving myself... It is bad when you think, "I really don't want to jump today."

Quote

I was just wishing I get to 4500 feet so that I can pull the PC and get done with this.

Quote

at my alti and it read blury (8.5K).

To me, a fast uncontrollable spin is an emergency... You can lose consciousness or altitude awareness... Different instruction programs teach that if you lose stability to pull after X seconds... I would seriously talk to your instructors... Waiting till a magical 4.5K may not be advised if you cannot be stable.

I know a lot of DZs have the "don't pull above a certain altitude" rule... I am counting on horizontal separation myself. If I lose stability, which could come from a broken arm, or being light headed from a hit or something, I am going to clear my airspace and pull, wherever I am at.

If you alti was blurry, you might have been on the edge of something worse... I don't think I would have ridden it out until 4.5K myself, especially if the spin was getting worse, not better.

I would say that if you can't skydive stable at this point, you probably need to go back to your instructors and ask for help.

And, don't feel bad, there are many, many, many people who had a hard time "getting it" - and soon as they did, they became awesome instructors.


If you need motivation, download the Halo - Freefall warriors show off of skydivingmovies.com - the guy who spins and fails the course - a year later, is a top instructor... Some times it just "clicks".

[uponone 0]

Relax. What other hobbies are you into? How good were you at your other hobbies in the first 17 minutes? You can't learn how to ride a bike or drive a car or snowboard or surf or skate in 17 minutes so what makes you think your going to be good at skydiving so soon.

....quit thinking so much and just have fun.

[newbieforever 0]

yes, I was not on a group jump, but, on my ride up I let the instructor in the plane and the jumpers know that I was pulling at 4500 feet. And also there was this dude from New zealand who was plannin on pulling at 5K, So I didn't wana pull above my designated altitude and cause some nforseen accident. though I should probably have....

[seedy 0]

I feel your pain - really. My last jump the same thing happened - with one exception. I pulled at 7K. If it is clear - whicch it was in my case - don't wait.

I intend to live forever -- so far, so good.

[yarpos 4]

I was the same at the beginning with the turning,spinning thing...trying to hard...trying to be perfect...falling like a sheet of stiff plywood....everybody says it, but its hard to do at first.....relax, consciously loosen up after exit ....good luck , it will come

regards, Steve
the older I get...the better I was

[rasmack 0]

I'll show you a secret.

This is me on jump twenty-something. I realize it is not as bad as what you describe, but can we agree that I hardly seem to be in control of my heading?
I applaud you for keeping your head cool enough to remember the guy after you who wanted to open at 5k. Just remember that you always plan for horisontal separation when you exit the plane, so if you're really in trouble you do have the option of pulling. (Disclaimer: Not an instructor. Don't know the status and regulations of your DZ's airspace...)

Oh, and please don't show that video to anyone... DOH!

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

[councilman24 36]

I spun until I had 39 jumps! I was jumping a fifty pound rig with a motorcycle helmet. (1980) People would hang on to me and as soon as they let go I'd spin. Nobody could see it. I finally decided I wasn't getting my head back because of the helmet. Forced my head back and solved the problem ..... 2500 jumps ago. Keep working. As pointed out above skydiving is easy, but you've only practiced 17 minutes. What else can you learn this fast?

If you need to pull, pull! I used to have to stop my spins by pulling. I'd have line twists half way to my Paracommander.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[FrogNog 1]

You need someone to go with you who can tell what your problem really is. Then we can all opine on how to work on it.

I remember when I used to have strut-arm.

And when my barrel rolls would sometimes turn into head-down corkscrews. That would only ever happen below 6k, of course. I think in one revolution I got as much terror / disorientation as you got from all your turning on the way down.

When I was still busy failing my 15 second delay repeatedly, a couple times I chipped or flipped enough that I gave up and pulled to make it quit.

I'm so glad my studenthood was entertaining. I wouldn't want to be a super-boring student.

-=-=-=-=-
Pull.

[AFFI 0]

Sounds to me like a lot went right with your jump!

Altitude awareness, recall of events, dealt with fixable malfunction (did you remain altitude aware while dealing with line twists?) and apparently survived you landing. Give yourself a pat on the back for doing so much right!

Don’t sweat it at all, I know instructors who had to make 30 AFF jumps just to get off student status, the important thing is that you had your survival priorities in order, next time you start spinning have fun with it, it is no big deal as long as you are as aware as you describe in your posting and as someone said, you don’t have to wait until your "pull altitude" to deploy and get a parachute overhead.

Semantics: Arch HARD - instead try to arch relaxed, best way to stop an uncontrollable turn (in my limited experience) is to relax and arch because the more you struggle trying to counter the turn, the more you uwill try harder and the more you will get frustrated - the worse it will likely become.

Have fun and keep jumping, we only get to practice 60 seconds at a time so you only have 17 minutes of practice, you will get better if you just keep jumping, I ipromise...

Make it a GREAT day!

Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…

[azureriders 0]

I graduated AFF on jump 15! Why so long, all because of spinning, I had no other issues. However, my instructors spent so much time teaching me how to turn, in order for me to know how not to turn, that now with less than 30 jumps I can (not that I claim to be good at it) turn, turn in a track, turn in a dive, turn with my legs, and yes I can not turn when I want to. Point is, every cloud has a silver linning and yours will too, you just got a find it.

I also think you should read the exit order and seperation articles in the saftey section of this site, or do a search for such in the forums. Horizontal seperation is where its at. Not that I am saying it is ok not to follow the plan, but I was taught that if you could not get stable in 5 seconds you should deploy. I pulled on my 6th jump at 10 grand, jumping from 14. I was spinning so fast my arms and legs where being pulled out flat. There is no way that I believe I could have stayed conscious until 5500', where I was planed to pull.

Please check my jump #'s before listening to me, and as everyone else has said, talk to your instructor. Hang in there, its all worth it.

[nessvegas 0]

Take it easy on yourself. I would guess all of us "newbies" have bad days. I will give you two examples.

AFF 5 I had a bad jump....never really felt like I was comfortable with what I was doing. I did the minimums and passed but I just knew in my heart right after I landed that I was going to get the TUB speech. I sat down and spent 10 minutes thinking about the dive and then debriefed with my instructor. He is an excellent instructor, I was blessed with great instructors on all my jumps, but as English was his second language, I had trouble verbalizing what I was feeling as well as having increased frustrations that I could not understand what he was trying to instruct me to correct. My fault....my ego, competitive nature, anger with myself, etc...did not help in the conversation. I was planning to pack up and go home because the last thing I felt like doing was #6. I think I would have returned, but I may have gone home and beat myself up over it and started to wonder if I was going to kill myself or someone else.....then just given up and bought more chrome for my bike. Thankfully, a member of Team Fastrack was listening to my debrief and as I was getting myself ready to leave he casually asked if I was going to try and get the next jump in that day.....then he talked me through my frustration and we decided that @ 6'3" it may be that I am starting my dive flow with an exit that made me uncomfortable before I even left the aircraft. He then went out of his way to offer to instruct me on my next dive if I had the time and was so inclined. That dive was probably one of my best AFF dives. I owe him alot for taking that time. Driving the 3+ hours home from the DZ I felt good that I had learned more that day, felt a stronger appreciation for the mentality of the skydiving community as a whole, and whizzed through the rest of my AFF dives like a champ. Well....until this next idiot move on my part....

It was the docking dive on a coach jump (he is an instructor as well). This particular instructor just speaks my language and I turned to him often, still do, with questions. He talked me through my first jump, we connected right at BO altitude, so not a great dive leaving at 12.5k but I came close to the peas on my stand-up and was feeling pretty good. He did the debrief and we talked about my issues with leg pressure and went up again. This one we had....ummmm...extra altitude of 15.9k (beer to pilot) and it was the twilight dive with a beautiful sunset. We connected twice well above 10k and I was feeling pretty damn 14 jump wonderous by deployment altitude. So good in fact that I flew a pattern while watching that pretty sunset that could only put me squarely in the corn field adjacent to the DZ landing area. Now, having read "A Parachute and its Pilot" 2x I was an expert at how to flatten things out and make that pretty landing next to my instructor I was trying not to look stupid in front of after a nice dive flow. (I wonder how many new jumpers get hurt because they are afraid to look stupid?) So after I put my expert knowledge to practice, I managed to land seven rows deep into the corn blazing on a bad recovery arc, instead of 15 rows back with a flare. I managed a PLF (of sorts...I was MOVING), emptied some luck out of the new jumper bag, and only ended up sore and with a fat lip. A bad luck rock in the field could have made this a much sadder occurence. My instuctor pulled me aside, made sure I was ok, gave instructions, razzed me appropriately and sent me on my way picking the dirt out of my fillings. This time, however, I tried not to be too hard on myself. I learned a very valuable lesson that some don't get a second chance to learn. I came back and committed myself to getting my license.

Moral of all this......Don't be too hard on yourself. Get the coaching, continue to learn, question and listen. Don't let yourself be led by your ego (most skydivers have this personality trait...not meant as negative) Take a deep breath and have a GREAT time.

Blue Skies

Erik

_________________________________________
I married the right one......it just took me 2 times!

[monkycndo 0]

I went through the spin cycle myself. During my AFF level 5, I ended up getting into a spin that I couldn't stop. I relaxed, touched toes, adjusted my arms but nothing worked. My AFFI had to grab me to stop the spin so I could deploy. I was frustrated that everything I tried didn't work. During debrief, he told me that my hips were slightly cocked and causing the spin. On the next jump, I knew if I started to spin, I could think to keep my body aligned to help stop spinning. It worked. That low feeling was completely replaced by a super high. It took just that one piece of knowledge to solve my problem. So long story short, get a coach/instructor to watch your next jump. They can see what is causing your spin and get you past this hurdle so you can tackle the next one. That is one reason why I love this sport. There is always a new skill to tackle and then enjoy the high that comes when you nail it.

50 donations so far. Give it a try.

You know you want to spank it
Jump an Infinity

[jbrasher 0]

I used to log my jumps in RPMs.

It took me 48 jumps to get off student status and another 20 or 30 to finally figure out what relax meant

Yes, that was 30+ years ago but gravity stills works the same.
Keep trying and you'll figure it out.

Red, White and Blue Skies,

John T. Brasher D-5166

[kschilk 0]

I did it on 8,9 & 10. I tried every suggestion that I've seen here, even the hips. We did the video thing, on jump 11 and I became rock solid, immediately upon exit.. I've had no problems, since and we never did figure it out.
I won't harp on it....but like most have already said, "It's better to dump....than thump!" I feel your pain....I'm a lifetime mechanic. I've had to diagnose problems, all my life. Believe me....it isn't the post office guys, you need to worry about! Mechs are always on the edge, of insanity.
Give your instructors the most constructive input, possible. You seem to have a good sense of awareness, a "feel" for what's happening. Use that skill, to help diagnose the problem.
Do you feel pressure or drag, in any particular area? Do you tend to turn in one specific direction? In freefall or under canopy, do you tend to drift to one side? It seems that there wasn't a problem,on the previous jump. Something is different. Try to be methodical in your attempts to correct and in your reporting of events, to your instructors.
Don't ignore your gear. Check for misalignment or incorrect adjustments. The air flows around your gear, too....including your flightsuit, helmet and gloves. Check everything and assume nothing!! I can't tell you how many times I've tried to get a vehicle running....when it was out of gas. I "assume" that the owners check that, before they bring it to me. Not always so. It's the little things, that get ya'.
Arching is good but don't "try" so hard, a "rigid" arch won't work. Assume the "boxman" position and take in the biggest breath, you can. As you exhale, relax....and look up. Let the airflow form your body. Don't make drastic or erratic adjustments....that alone, can induce instability.
I wish I could help ya' with something more concrete. You've got a "gremlin", man. Everybody gets 'em....it'll go away.

"T'was ever thus."

[MarkM 0]

You jumped, you lived, you were heads up about not putting other people in danger. What else should you be expecting from yourself as a noob?

Get up with a coach or someone at the DZ that'll shoot video.

[altichick 0]

As soon as you feel an inintentional turn starting make sure you are looking up and fixing on a point on the horizon. I've often seen students stop a turn or spin as soon they see the coach or instructor is right in front of them... focasing on a fixed point really helps! Without this the tendancy is to look into the direction of the turn and where your head goes your body will follow!

Also... think about your arm position... well done for staying altitude aware... but in the process of checking your alti were you bringing your hand in close to your face? Unsymetrical arm position can contribute to a turn as well.

Sound like you did a great job of staying aware and handling everything well so relax - it wasn't a bad jump, you pulled at a safe altitude and landed safely... that's not a 'bad' jump

Don't sweat the petty things... and don't pet the sweaty things!

[mdrejhon 8]

Two words: Tunnel Time!

A 10 minute tunnel time block ought to fix your spin permanently.

PS: Forum member Eule can provide some inspiration -- He's almost 50 jumps and still hasn't finished AFF. (I'm impressed at his determination though)

[daniel_owen_uk 0]

I hear that, I have more time in the tunnel than I do in the air, and I can honestly say it's been remarkable for my skills, not only that but it's incredibly fun too.

Suppose you need to have one near you though.

That said I am the sort of person that if something is hard it only pushes me to get it right more. If you were turning 40 points in a 4 way after 17 minutes of skydiving, why would you bother to continue?
BTW why do you feel you should have to ride it down to 4500 if you are having trouble? The systems are in place (horizontal seperation) to deal with every circumstance, one of which is a premature deployment.

__________________

BOOM Headshot

[newbieforever 0]

Do you feel pressure or drag, in any particular area? Do you tend to turn in one specific direction? In freefall or under canopy, do you tend to drift to one side? It seems that there wasn't a problem,on the previous jump.

Quote

I do not believe I feel the drag in any particular area or may be I do not remember. Yes I do tend to turn in one particular direction. I always tend to spin on the right side. Somthing I'm very curious about, no left unintentional spins, In freefall I do not believe that I drift, again I can't speak for that on my last jump, All I knew was I was spinning.
I was either looking in the direction of my fast spin or down. instead of looking towards the horizon as someone points out, I had no reference of any heading, When I was lookin at the alti, my hands were not close to my face , they were in the 90 degree position


***AFFI
did you remain altitude aware while dealing with line twists?)

well, I didn't really look at my alti ,if that's what you mean by altitude aware while dealing with the line twists. However, I knew I was not falling and my fall rate had decreased, like it is under an open canopy so while I was kicking, I didn't look at my alti, though I was conscious about my altitude.

[crazydiver 0]

Ya dude, if you're real worried, get half hour in the tunnel. If not possible, just do some coach jumps. This is the time to do those for you anyway.

Cheers,
Travis

[wmw999 2,131]

I think you've figured out that you're not the first person to get into flat spins
One thing you can do when you're spinning, besides everything else , is to look in the direction you want to spin, over your shoulder. Because that will tend to dip that shoulder, and make you turn that way -- your body turns into a propeller. It's probably what's going on in the other direction, but this way you can control it more.

It's easy to look in the opposite direction under your arm when you're arching (heck -- they're right there in front of you and a little above). So try the shoulder thing if other, more sophisticated tricks don't work.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[chachi 0]

what you really need to do is find a video guy and buy his slot and then you will know exactly where your problem is. his slot is way cheaper than wasting jumps guessing.