AFFI 0 #26 June 15, 2006 Main Entry: 1ex•pe•ri•ence 1 a : direct observation of or participation in events as a basis of knowledge b : the fact or state of having been affected by or gained knowledge through direct observation or participation 2 practical knowledge, skill, or practice derived from direct observation of or participation in events or in a particular activity 3 a : the conscious events that make up an individual life b : the events that make up the conscious past of a community or nation or mankind generally 4 : something personally encountered, undergone, or lived through 5 : the act or process of directly perceiving events or reality Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #27 June 15, 2006 Quote Time in sport does indeed count for something. I consider 1000 jumps to be like a black belt in martial arts. Any experienced practitioner of martial arts will tell you that that is when you are ready to BEGIN learning. Best reply so far IMHO -- makes the most sense. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gofast_ER 0 #28 June 15, 2006 274 In a couple weeks it will be 285 Well actually im going on vacation starting this weekend and hope to get 25 jumps in at perris. So then of course it will be 300 I may not agree with what you have to say but i'll defend to the death your right to say it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hexadecimal 0 #29 June 15, 2006 Wow, what an incredibly useful thread. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jlmiracle 7 #30 June 15, 2006 QuoteWow, what an incredibly useful thread. WOW!!!!!!!! What an incredibley useful post!Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #31 June 15, 2006 Tell a wuffo you have 300 jumps and they are like "Wow, that's impressive. You are pretty experienced." Then introduce that same wuffo to someone with 12,000 jumps, and they will maybe have a new perspective on the whole thing. I know, as I just came from the wuffo world not long ago. Can a person with 1000 jumps and no cutaways be considered experienced? I'd say they are less experienced than someone with 500 jumps and 2 cutaways, unless poor packing or pilor error is the reason for the cutaways. It's a tough question. Zipp0 -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #32 June 15, 2006 QuoteI think its all relative. At some smaller cessna dropzoens where I jump 1500 is considered pretty experienced. Yet when you go to Eloy for examle, 1500 ins't squat. 1 - when does the type of airplane mean horse piss? I've seen this a few times in this thread 2 - That jumper at the small DZ likely has done multiple disciplines, trained and worked with newbies, knows how to spot, knows how to read winds to set up a spot, has chased tandems, can pack for himself, has learned a bit about rigging, support training or has gotten his ratings as soon as he could, etc.... Let's stack that up against some "typical" weekend yuppie jumper with 1500 jumps primarily from a big otter DZ...... It's what you know and how you act, not pure numbers - though numbers doesn't hurt now does it? ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #33 June 15, 2006 QuoteWow, what an incredibly useful thread. WOW!!!!!!!! What an incredibley useful post! WOW!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #34 June 15, 2006 Quote Jumps plus time in sport gives you experience. I dont' consider someone that makes 1000 jumps in a year that experienced. In the same regard, someone with 1000 jumps over 15 years, how much experience is that? Its a good experience level in terms of people in the sport, gear changes over the years and similar, but I wouldn't want to ask that person about a lot of things. Also, when were those jumps accomplished? People will state time in the sport from their first jump, even if they took 13 years off and did 999 jumps in the past year and a half. Now, someone who has actually been in the sport for those years but only does 100-ish jumps a year. That's a little different. This is similar to a thread I started a couple of years ago asking the question about jumps vs. time in the sport. I look at some folks in different terms of experience, though. For instance, I'm not going to go get RW coaching from TJ, even though he does have some experience with it. Just like I'm not going to get FF coaching from Craig Girard, even though he has some experience in it. With all of that said, some of the most important lessons about skydiving that I've learned, I've learned from my students.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #35 June 15, 2006 Good points Aggie, lots of good stuff in this thread. It got me to thinking about solo freefall students and the varying levels of experience between them. Lets say you have 2 students who are making one jump each Saturday morning and are halfway through the progression and both had exactly the same background in terms of prior exposure to the sport - which of the two is deemed the more experienced? I would say that it is the one who is studying the student manual more, who is hanging our at the DZ more watching landings, learning about the gear and packing as opposed to the student that just makes their jump on Saturday morning and leaves the DZ and does not study the manual. Which of the two upon graduation of the solo freefall program will be the more “experienced”? So in essence, if we translate this type of thinking across the spectrum experience is bred from how much one applies them self to the sport more, who learns more, overall, who is dedicated more. I know lots of up jumpers who are not as capable when making decisions concerning things like canopy patterns or EP’s as some recent graduates. Mediocrity is perhaps the thing which prohibits excelling to the point of “respectable experience”?Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #36 June 15, 2006 QuoteSo in essence, if we translate this type of thinking across the spectrum experience is bred from how much one applies them self to the sport more, who learns more, overall, who is dedicated more. I think that its a kind of like a bell curve. When you're new you don't know enough to understand the "beer light conversations." As you learn some, you start to understand them and learn from them. This continues until you reach a point to where you're learning less from those conversations, to the point where you're not really learning much of anything. So I believe that you are correct with your post, just that it doesn't continue the same way as you get more exposure and experience in the sport. If that was true, there would be some super-badass experienced jumpers on DZ.com with very low jump numbers.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mirage62 0 #37 June 15, 2006 Bill Leasman, someone I have great respect for said: "When most folks get around a 100 jumps they start thinking they've got it down. The when they hit around 500 they understand they don't have a clue" I was going to be a smart ass and say: When you stop updating your profile jump numbers every weekend you jump (Good thread)Kevin Keenan is my hero, a double FUP, he does so much with so little Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #38 June 15, 2006 Quote Can a person with 1000 jumps and no cutaways be considered experienced? I'd say they are less experienced than someone with 500 jumps and 2 cutaways, unless poor packing or pilor error is the reason for the cutaways. It's a tough question. Zipp0 According to your wisdom the chick with 3 reserve rides in 100 jumps is more experienced than some of our DZ's coaches. I don't think so. Faulty reasoning. I have one cutaway. I can't see how that makes me more "experienced" that anyone else with similar jump #s. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DeNReN 0 #39 June 15, 2006 QuoteWhen you stop updating your profile jump numbers every weekend you jump or round them to the nearest 0 .... Once I hit 500(around 2015) I will have the same mind set ...but till then...every jump counts and I am very happy to update my jump numbers every weekend that I have the privlage to jump Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #40 June 15, 2006 Quote When you stop updating your profile jump numbers every weekend you jump Sounds about right to me. But dammit, I'll be updating those numbers for quite some time to come.... -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zipp0 1 #41 June 15, 2006 Quote According to your wisdom the chick with 3 reserve rides in 100 jumps is more experienced than some of our DZ's coaches. Well, not exactly. Quote I don't think so. Faulty reasoning. I have one cutaway. I can't see how that makes me more "experienced" that anyone else with similar jump #s. Because they have never "experienced" a cutaway. Zipp0 -------------------------- Chuck Norris doesn't do push-ups, he pushes the Earth down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #42 June 15, 2006 So since she has had 3 in 100 jumps, she is more experienced than our chief instructor (3000 jumps) with no cutaways?)???? Or I'm more experienced than he is, because I've had one to his none. Again, I say faulty reasoning. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #43 June 15, 2006 QuoteQuote According to your wisdom the chick with 3 reserve rides in 100 jumps is more experienced than some of our DZ's coaches. Well, not exactly. Quote I don't think so. Faulty reasoning. I have one cutaway. I can't see how that makes me more "experienced" that anyone else with similar jump #s. Because they have never "experienced" a cutaway. Zipp0 With only 2 only cutaways the actual experience of cutting away can be, at least it was for me on the first chop, intense. The second one was no big deal at all; it occurred 500 jumps after the first. It was no big deal because I was more prepared to deal with the situation as a result of continued training in EPs, not (I believe) due to the fact that I had cut away 500 jumps prior. Now I have not had one in 5 years/2800 skydives. Right now I am more prepared than ever to deal with EPs because I have been training others in them for nearly 5 years. The performance during the event of cutting away and deploying the reserve is going to be a direct result of how thoroughly the pre-preparedness factors in. Take a skydiver with 2 cutaways and 1000 skydives over say, a 3 year period who never - ever trains the survival skills, never practices EPs, concentrating solely on freefall and competing (sure, the medals look nice hanging over the mantle). Then throw into the mix a skydiver with only, say ummmm, 50 skydives who recently got off student status and practices their EPs every day in a training harness religiously. Which one would be more experienced in the actions of performing EPs? My money would be on the skydiver with 50 jumps not fucking up…Mykel AFF-I10 Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat… Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyflychris 0 #44 June 16, 2006 I think it's relative to the skydiver's abilities. I am and still feel like a newbie, and I hope to never become jaded and lose those butterflies. Jump numbers alone mean nothing. Someone can fling themselves out of a plane as many times as they want. But that beauty we all know when we see someone who is a natural is inspiring. Some like me have to work at it, but it feels like 1,000 jumps if it flows just right.Ordinary's..... just not good enough today. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
divnswoop 0 #45 June 16, 2006 When I earned my AFF JM rating, one of my original Jm's told me that," You learn 10x as much from 1000-2000 jumps then from 0-1000." I had 500 jumps at the time and though he was nuts......Well, many years later and turning the X000 number a couple times, he was right. Hell, I'm learning more and getting more experience in between 4 & 5000 than I could ever imagine! But what is scary to me is how many people with 500-1000 jumps who "know it all" and don't need further training. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DrewEckhardt 0 #46 June 16, 2006 Quote How many jumps do you consider as "experienced"? Thousands with variety. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyflychris 0 #47 June 16, 2006 I absolutely agree. Experience and numbers do go hand in hand. But are people doing solo's or are they RW or freefly or hybrid jumping ? Someone who has alot of numbers may not be all that awesome of a skydiver. Someone with X numbers of cutaways may just be a lousy packer. The whole "attitude" of I'm better because I have more jumps is crap and belongs in the forums. Experienced skydivers imparting their knowledge to those of us with less "jumps" is and should be the main goal.Ordinary's..... just not good enough today. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #48 June 16, 2006 QuoteSomeone who has alot of numbers may not be all that awesome of a skydiver. What makes an awesome skydiver? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #49 June 16, 2006 QuoteQuoteSomeone who has alot of numbers may not be all that awesome of a skydiver. What makes an awesome skydiver? Here's some ideas."There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyflychris 0 #50 June 16, 2006 Get a point, agree or disagree, but don't be Oprah with the never ending point.Ordinary's..... just not good enough today. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
