Ron 7 #52 June 16, 2006 QuoteI think 500 because that is when you can become a tandem instructor, then you are responsible for another persons life on each jump . I wouldn't like that this was the case if most people thought the TI was inexperienced 500 jumps, three years, and a instructor rating is a big difference than just 500 jumps."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #53 June 16, 2006 QuoteIn the same regard, someone with 1000 jumps over 15 years, how much experience is that? If I had to pick, a guy with 1,000 jumps over 10 years would be more experienced than a guy with 1,000 in one year. The one year guy might be able to fly all around the 10 year guy, but the 10 year guys knows not to jump a Nova. A good number of one year hyper jumpers don't understand their gear...ect."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #54 June 16, 2006 QuoteAccording to your wisdom the chick with 3 reserve rides in 100 jumps is more experienced than some of our DZ's coaches. She is more experienced in cutaways. Thats a fact. QuoteI have one cutaway. I can't see how that makes me more "experienced" that anyone else with similar jump #s. Simple, you have done more, or you have *experienced* more than someone with the same number of jumps and no mals."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #55 June 16, 2006 Still not good reasoning. A girl with three resreve rides in 100 jumps is NOT more "experienced" than an AFFI with 3000 jumps and no reserve rides. This is in a discussion about "how many jumps makes you experienced." steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #56 June 16, 2006 QuoteStill not good reasoning. A girl with three resreve rides in 100 jumps is NOT more "experienced" than an AFFI with 3000 jumps and no reserve rides Yes she is, she is THREE times more experienced when it comes to reserve rides. Now maybe nothing else, but in reserve rides she is much more experienced. Thats just math. QuoteThis is in a discussion about "how many jumps makes you experienced." And I say it depends on the jumps and the time in sport. You have 700 camera jumps, I have ~100. I bet you are MUCH more experienced than me with a camera no matter that I have 2000+ more jumps than you. Tony Hathaway has 13000 jumps, but I am more experienced than him in 4way."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steveorino 7 #57 June 16, 2006 Okay, I give up. Semantics. The question was how many jumps makes you experienced? I was not buying a gal with 100 jumps and 3 reserve rides is more "experienced" than a guy with 3000 jumps and 0 reserve rides. She has three jump suits to his one. I guess she is more "experienced" in skydive fashion too. steveOrino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #58 June 16, 2006 I'd say I was experienced, but I can't really define it. I think it comes when you realize how much you can't control, and respect it. I'm proud to have survived this long.Jimi Hendrix (another Seattlite) said it was "not necessarily stoned but . . .Beautiful." I'll buy that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #59 June 16, 2006 QuoteOkay, I give up. Semantics. The question was how many jumps makes you experienced? Well OK, but my answer was it depends on type of jumps. I don't think a guy with 1,000 hop n pops is more experinced at RW than a guy with 200 jumps with Airspeed. If you are looking for an about number, I said 1,000 before. But, that can be less if the person has an AFF or riggers ticket, or maybe a Gold at nationals. But those things only apply to those areas. Just like my 3800 jumps does not make me better than you with a camera. And if a guy asked me advice about a camera setup, I would send them to you if you were around...Hell, if I was going to get a new helmet I would go to you if you were around....(OK, I'd got to Tony H, but I hope you understand my point) Just a fun jumper? 1,000 if thats all they have is jump numbers. One special skill (instructional rating, PRO, Video, 4way) shortens that a bit. QuoteShe has three jump suits to his one. I guess she is more "experienced" in skydive fashion too Sure, unless the other guy has not had more than three"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kevinwhelan 0 #60 June 16, 2006 Quote500 jumps, three years, and a instructor rating is a big difference than just 500 jumps. Oh I agree with you. But the original question was only about numbers. Not, how many jumps and what else is needed to be considered experienced? "be honest with yourself. Why do I want to go smaller? It is not going to make my penis longer." ~Brian Germain, on downsizing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #61 June 16, 2006 Yes, but you said, "I think 500 because that is when you can become a tandem instructor, then you are responsible for another persons life on each jump". Its not like they hand you a Tandem student when you reach 500 jumps. You have to have more than just 500 jumps (3 years exp and a rating) and that makes things different IMO. And anyone with a rating is in a different class IMO. Not to be a ratings snob, but I think if you teach it, you tend to be a little more focused than a fun jumper."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andy9o8 0 #62 June 16, 2006 QuoteOkay, I give up. Semantics. Thank God somebody finally said this aloud. What is the sound of one hand clapping? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkymonkeyONE 3 #63 June 16, 2006 "experienced" is a very relative term. As somone else pointed out, 1000 jumps and a couple of ratings at a Cessna DZ is incredibly experienced, while there are a lot of people at Eloy and some other year-round turbine DZ's that make over 1000 per year yet have no ratings whatsoever. How about THAT for a run-on sentence! When I was an 18 year old kid with just over 100 jumps I had an SL rating, was doing demos, and taught FJC's. When I got my D-license I was jumping at a military club and there really weren't a lot of more-experienced skydivers doing better in the air than me. Yes, I considered myself "experienced" then. I was teaching FJC's, dispatching students as an SL-I, doing demos into bowl stadiums, doing CRW with whatever was over my head at the end of nearly every skydive (we all did), and competing in 4-way. Oh, all of that without an AAD or an RSL. Once again, though, "experienced" was only relative to the jumpers around me. 40 jumps a month was "crazy"; most people did good to make 20 a month in the summer. Things are very,very different nowadays. It's nothing for an affluent skydiver to make 75-100 jumps a month, have two new rigs (with AAD's), yet have no real focus. Go to a busy turbine DZ with under 1000 jumps and try to get on a good RW load and you might very well get smirked at. To me, "experienced" means "accomplished". There are lot of accomplished skydivers with right at 500 jumps; some even less. Guys with every single rating, a PRO ticket, competition RW experience, demo experience, and capable at some other disciplines. Chuck -edit for typo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #64 June 16, 2006 QuoteWhen I was an 18 year old kid with just over 100 jumps I had an SL rating, was doing demos, and taught FJC's. When I got my D-license I was jumping at a military club and there really weren't a lot of more-experienced skydivers doing better in the air than me. Yes, I considered myself "experienced" then. I was teaching FJC's, dispatching students as an SL-I, doing demos into bowl stadiums, doing CRW with whatever was over my head at the end of nearly every skydive (we all did), and competing in 4-way. Oh, all of that without an AAD or an RSL. Once again, though, "experienced" was only relative to the jumpers around me. 40 jumps a month was "crazy"; most people did good to make 20 a month in the summer. Ok, Chuck - I read that sentence and had to compare our D-numbers and time in sport because it sounds so very familiar. I think I'll buy you a the second I ever get the chance to. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #65 June 16, 2006 Hee! Hee! My experience has been that "Twin Otter Babies" from large desert drop zones tend to be the most narrow-minded. For example, - when I worked at Perris - I used to laugh at self-professed "Stiletto Pilots" who had done the same toggle-hook 1,400 times. They had also been on the same 4-way team for the last thousand jumps - in three years! But none of them knew how to pack! Hee! Hee! The scary thing is that most of these "Twin Otter Babies" do not have a clue how little they know. This is similar to my - BASE-jumping - friend who laughs at people with 50 jumps off an easy object - like the Perrine Bridge - who call themselves "BASE Jumpers." If you want to call yourself "experienced", start by doing a million push-ups, then strap on a rucksack, rifle and snowshoes and step out of a "Herc at a 'grand. On the other end of the scale, try exiting form 16,000 or 19,000 feet, when you KNOW you are hypoxic. To round out your skills, enter an accuracy competition. Once you have refined your accuracy skills, do a few demos into downtown stadiums, with ZERO outs. Somewhere in there you should do enough canopy formations to get comfortable flying close to other canopies. ... and we have not even mentioned freefall skills ... VARIETY is the key to experience. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #66 June 16, 2006 I finally considered myself to be at least 'somewhat' experienced...when people "I" respect ask "MY" advise on something. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #67 June 16, 2006 QuoteI finally considered myself to be at least 'somewhat' experienced...when people "I" respect ask "MY" advise on something. that's really a nice way to put it ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peckerhead 0 #68 June 16, 2006 Quote"experienced" is a very relative term. As somone else pointed out, 1000 jumps and a couple of ratings at a Cessna DZ is incredibly experienced, while there are a lot of people at Eloy and some other year-round turbine DZ's that make over 1000 per year yet have no ratings whatsoever. How about THAT for a run-on sentence! When I was an 18 year old kid with just over 100 jumps I had an SL rating, was doing demos, and taught FJC's. When I got my D-license I was jumping at a military club and there really weren't a lot of more-experienced skydivers doing better in the air than me. Yes, I considered myself "experienced" then. I was teaching FJC's, dispatching students as an SL-I, doing demos into bowl stadiums, doing CRW with whatever was over my head at the end of nearly every skydive (we all did), and competing in 4-way. Oh, all of that without an AAD or an RSL. Once again, though, "experienced" was only relative to the jumpers around me. 40 jumps a month was "crazy"; most people did good to make 20 a month in the summer. Things are very,very different nowadays. It's nothing for an affluent skydiver to make 75-100 jumps a month, have two new rigs (with AAD's), yet have no real focus. Go to a busy turbine DZ with under 1000 jumps and try to get on a good RW load and you might very well get smirked at. To me, "experienced" means "accomplished". There are lot of accomplished skydivers with right at 500 jumps; some even less. Guys with every single rating, a PRO ticket, competition RW experience, demo experience, and capable at some other disciplines. Chuck -edit for typo Amen bro....Great post! For me things really started to make sense at about 500 jumps. By then I had 3 reserve rides, an instructors rating, a D license, crew jumps, round jumps, night jumps, water jumps, demos, etc. Even so I did not really feel like I was in the "club" until 1000. My best bonfire stories come from the first 500. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hisgoofyness 0 #69 June 16, 2006 QuoteIf you want to call yourself "experienced", start by doing a million push-ups, then strap on a rucksack, rifle and snowshoes and step out of a "Herc at a 'grand. VARIETY is the key to experience. It's funny you mention that example. My first two jumps were out of a C-130 (Herc) under a T-10 exiting at 800ft. I got a good laugh when I became a sport jumper through that experience. When it came time for me to do my hop-n-pop for my A license, one of my instructors sat me down prior to the jump and attempted to brief me on not being nervous about getting out of the plane "so low" at 3,500 ft... I kept a straight face & listened to him. After the jump (which was actually around 2,900 due to crap weather up top), he approached me and said "I have never seen an AFF student so calm about getting out that low on their first hop-n-pop..." I then told him of my first two jumps in the military. He looked at me calmly and said "that's crazy" Goudha is for Buddha, and that's good enough for me! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HydroGuy 0 #70 June 16, 2006 They need to ban all threads with titles such as these. It gets Ron and others way to excited... Quote Quote QuoteGet in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #71 June 16, 2006 QuoteThey need to ban all threads with titles such as these. It gets Ron and others way to excited... Then where will it end? They will be banning things left and right - next thing ya know Hydro will be banned, and we just dont want that now do we? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #72 June 16, 2006 Quotenext thing ya know Hydro will be banned, and we just dont want that now do we? welllll, what are the pros and the cons? pro - he'd stop staring at us..... ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #73 June 16, 2006 QuoteQuotenext thing ya know Hydro will be banned, and we just dont want that now do we? welllll, what are the pros and the cons? pro - he'd stop staring at us..... At least we know the visine works! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
adventurechick 0 #74 June 16, 2006 oh it's once you hit 38... didn't ya hear?? hehe i'm just kidding. PMS #449 TPM #80 Muff Brother #3860 SCR #14705 Dirty Sanchez #233 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyflychris 0 #75 June 16, 2006 What's and Oprah? Touche' my friend, that's good for a laugh. Peace.Ordinary's..... just not good enough today. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
