Static Line or AFF

[ryan_d_sucks 0]

Before I start: I know this has been talked about before, and I already have searched and read. I couldn't find much that gave me much information applicable to my situation.. That being said:

I am a college student with little money. I have done 2 tandem jumps, and am hoping to work towards my license this spring. I had my mind set on doing AFF, just because it *seems* to be the most commonly used method of training for the recreational skydiver. Through various conversations on these forums a few people have PMed me asking if I have thought about taking a SL course to get licensed, as it is much cheaper. The truth is no, I hadn't, but now I am. So now the question has become, 'should I do Static line or aff?'

Money certainly is an issue for me... I am not someone who could do AFF all in 1 week, or even 1 month. It would take me about 3 or 4 weeks to save up the money for each AFF jump (atleast the first few), leaving me barely enough time to stay current and complete the next level of AFF. I know it varies by Dropzone, but how much do the first Static Line courses and jumps generally cost?

Also one aspect of Static Line that I do not understand is the progression. Earlier this fall I called a dropzone near me to ask about Static Line progresion. I asked him "How many jumps does it take to get licensed via static line?" the person working at this DZ told me that I couldn't get licensed through static line progression (?) I didn't quite understand this, because I thought that getting an A license was the entire point of starting a SL program. So, how does one get an A license through Static Line? I think it is 25 jumps (assuming you don't mess any up), but what exactly is the progression (as in jumps 1-5 are static line, 5-10 are X second delay, etc. etc.) of a typical static line program?

Finally, are there any draw backs to either particular program? Safety-wise are they similar? It seems as if AFF could be safer, because the inexperienced student has an instructor with them, although they probably wouldn't be of any help in a malfunction. Also exiting so low for inexperienced jumpers (who might not recognize/deal with a mal quickly) seems an added element not present with AFF.

I appreciate any insight..

[MarkM 0]

Progression on SL for me went something like:

Initial jumps are SL jumps with practive throws. When you can prove you can exit stable and throw a dummy PC then you do a clear and pull. Then you do longer and longer delays up to 15 seconds(all solo). Then you jump out with an instructor and learn the rest of what you need(though I had switched to AFF by this point).

It's sort of a baby step type of progression that first gets you so you can exit and save your own life, then puts you out the door with an instructor so you can learn FF skills. It's cheaper per jump, because you're not paying for 1-2 AFF-Is to jump with you and you're doing hop and pops for the first part.

You really need to call the DZs you have available and see what methods are open to you. AFF can be as cheap as SL(to get off student status) at certain places.

You also should not do just 1 AFF jump per month. It helps a lot to do the jumps closer together, even doing several jumps per day. Save up the money you need beforehand and then go out and do it. Also consider that with both methods you're likely to need to repeat levels, so budget for that.

[wildfan75 1]

Check with the dropzone that you plan on attending for prices and compare.

AFF is not safer than S/L because you're not leaving with an instructor. You don't need an instructor to jump with you when you do static line because the plane is essecially pulling your rip cord and since your canopy is deployed almost immediately, you have little time to become unstable. They each carry their own risks but I don't think that either one is safer than the other. I'm sure that someone will chime in that AFF is safer than S/L because the possibilty of line twists is greater with S/L. I didn't have line twists until my first 10 second delay. And you'll have plenty of time to deal with a malfunction in a static line jump from 3000'.

Whoever told you that your static line jumps don't count towards your A license is either A) full of shit, B)don't know what they're talking about or C) a representative of a dz that makes big money from AFF and is looking at you with dollar signs in their eyes. Your static line jumps absolutely count towards your A license. The jump requirement to get to your class A license, whether they're static line, AFF, solo, or tandems for that matter (yes, even your tandems count towards your A license), is 25 jumps. Period. If the person that told you that is in fact representing choice C above...run...run...like hell from that dz.

But whatever you do, talk to the dz(s) you plan on going to and ask about their prices. Every place is going to be different. In my experience, I did my 5 static line jumps for the same amount the first AFF jump would have cost me. And I got my 25 jumps (to my class A) for about 75% of what the first 7 AFF jumps would have cost me, assuming that I wouldn't have had to repeat any levels.

Don't let anyone talk you out of static line because it's not the cool thing to do. These are some of the same people who are jumping radiciously loaded elliptical canopies for their experience because it's cool. Being cool doesn't keep you alive. Find a few up jumpers that you can trust and always ask their advice. Advice is free. ER trips aren't.

And have fun!!!!

[Calvin19 0]

weak

my best freind from high school got out of the navy for 2 weeks last xmas.
i had about 400 jumps by then, he had none. he asked me if i could teach him,
i hesitated, thought about it, he is a really cool guy. by far the best mindset i have ever seen.
I put him in my rig, and gave him 3 hours of ground school, explained the physics of freefall, he 'seemed' to get it all pretty well.

on the 2 hour drive to the DZ i tought him the lingo, what to say, etc. we made a fake logbook, and borrowed my freinds USPA A liscense, and we rented him student gear.

weather that day sucked, 8000' ceiling, with 20-30mph on the ground. i told him to exit with me, and take 10 seconds.

I brought another jumper freind, and we did a threeway, for his first skydive. the jumper freind never knew it was his first jump, we broke at 5000', the kid even tracked almost correctly. he pulled at 4000', and stood up the landing 100' from the peas. i have the video to prove it.

so, SL? i mean, if you can find someone to do this for you, try that. My freind now has 55 jumps, and his own A liscense. he will NEVER forget that. and he has the best learning story of a 20year old i ever heard.

[freekflyguy 0]

Must ...... not.... get.....sucked ..... in

Too late.

Please please please tell mne this is a wind up!!!!!!!!!!

If not WTF were you doing???

What would you have done had your friend gone in, the combinations of things that could have gone wrong are mindbogling.

It's nice to be important, but it's more important to be nice.

[damion75 0]

Quote

I put him in my rig, and gave him 3 hours of ground school, explained the physics of freefall, he 'seemed' to get it all pretty well.

on the 2 hour drive to the DZ i tought him the lingo, what to say, etc. we made a fake logbook, and borrowed my freinds USPA A liscense, and we rented him student gear.

"Now I've seen it all!"

"Have you ever seen a man eat his own head?!... then you HAVEN'T seen it all"

***************

Not one shred of evidence supports the theory that life is serious - look at the platypus.

[vpozzoli 0]

To the OP: please disregard anything Calvin19 says, regardless of whether it's real or made up (personally I vote for made up).
Ciao,

Vale

[ryan_d_sucks 0]

Well... I suppose the one post... the one that almost makes those safety conscious posters quesay, is completeley illigitimate...

I'm still interested to hear what any of you have to say as to the price/progression/safety/overall learning pro's and con's of SL vs. AFF progression are... I appreciate all the posts so far, please keep the info flowing.

I guess at the moment I am leaning more towards SL, just because of the price factor, and the flexibility that I have seen listed in the Indiana Dropzones websites that I have seen.

Please keep the advice comming,I really appreciate it..


Ryan

[kelpdiver 2]

Quote

I'm still interested to hear what any of you have to say as to the price/progression/safety/overall learning pro's and con's of SL vs. AFF progression are... I appreciate all the posts so far, please keep the info flowing.

whichever one has you jumping more frequently (factor of money and cloud ceilings) is your best bet. Between weather (wind) and my schedule, I was getting out one day every 2-3 weeks and it didn't work very well.

[L.O. 0]

Hey Ryan, nice to see that skydiving interests you so much. S/L and AFF, both great programs, both have + -.

For you it seems that Staticline is the proper choice.

Despite all the arguments for and against, when it comes down to it, doing one AFF every month or even every couple weeks is not that good.

You will find, that skydiving is in large part learned through osmosis. If you can only make it to the DZ once a month for your AFF, plan on a couple failed levels.

staticline is going to have you spending a lot more time at the DZ, making a lot more jumps and as a result learning a lot more. you will become much more a part of the DZ you jump at.

Aff is a great program and I can't say that it isn't a good way to go for a lot of people.

The people in your situation should avoid AFF because it's just not practical. To reach the same point via staticline costs a great deal less but gives you the same skills.

I expect and even hope that others will respond to this post giving you more angles on the story.

With your income, there can be only one logical move to make, thats S/L.

Thats my opinion of coarse.

HPDBs, I hate those guys.
AFB, charter member.

[L.O. 0]

If that really happened calvin, You should be ashamed. You have put your friend at risk and also a DZ and all the people you call friends there. Even when everything is done right people die in this sport. You took your buddy and put us all at risk. We could have lost a DZ, a future skydiver and who knows how many people who saw the news report after his death.

I have done a lot of stupid things in my life, But my mistakes have for the most part just put me in a bad way, not everyone else.

If that did happen, I suggest you don't tell anyone ever again and hope no one remembers this post.

Todd Jacobson
S&TA

P.S. If that happened, don't even show your face at my DZ

HPDBs, I hate those guys.
AFB, charter member.

[popsjumper 2]

Call Skydive The Farm in Rockmart, GA for AFF pricing.
(404) 295-5000

The suggestion to save up before you start is a good one. Waiting a long time between jumps is counter-productive.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[NWFlyer 2]

The person who answered your question may have been confused - it's true that the static line jumps alone won't get you an A license, and even all the jumps in the "progression" won't get you to an A ... that takes 25 jumps that are a combination of jumps with an instructor, jumps with a coach, and solo jumps.

I look at it this way. The A license requires that you demonstrate a set of skills. All students working towards A license, whether they are going AFF, or static line, or some other type of program (IAD, hybrid programs, etc.) have to demonstrate those skills. Static line and AFF just take different approaches to get you there. But you will end up in the same place.

What others have said about currency is probably the biggest thing to think about. Being able to jump more often than once a month will make it less likely that you will have to repeat a jump. And even if you do have to repeat, you're repeating a cheaper jump. Those repeat jumps still count toward the A license, anyway, so they're never wasted.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[jacketsdb23 45]

Ryan,

I believe that you can become a good skydiver with either method. I took the static line course and found it to be a great way to learn. Besides the $$ aspect of it, for me, there was heavy emphasis on canopy control from the beginning. With AFF you have a lot going on, altitude awareness being the key factor as well as body control. Then after all of that the canopy flight comes in. Don't get me wrong, you need altitude awareness with the static line course but its under a open canopy (Ideally )! IMO, taking $$$ out as a factor, I think it depends on the way you like to learn. For me static line was a slower progression (still got my A license at 25 jumps). There was less to think about each jump. As I got more comfortable, new factors were introduced, I.E. practice pulls, 5 sec freefall, 10 sec freefall...etc.

AFF is certainly a good way to learn, but it throws you to the wolves. You are introduced quickly to all aspects of learning to skydive. This is not a bad thing if you have the personality for it. I think it really depends on what you are up for.

I am not an instructor. Take what I have to say with a grain of salt. Make sure you speak with qualified instructors about each method and learn the pros and cons of each. Make your own decision based on this knowledge. What was best for me or John Doe, may not work well for you.

Also, even if you don't have the money to make a skydive every weekend get out to the dropzone. I learned to pack parachutes long before I was jumping on a regular basis. It immersed me in the community and I learned a lot about the parachutes and about skydiving. You can learn a lot just by asking questions, watching people land, or sitting around the bonfire at night with a beer and listening to stories. In fact, packing could be a great way to earn the money you need to jump while being around the people who will be teaching you.

Good Luck to you!

Blues,

Marcel

Losers make excuses, Winners make it happen
God is Good
Beer is Great
Swoopers are crazy.

[NewGuy2005 51]

Here's what I did, and I think it's a great way to go:

Take S/L up through your first 2 hop & pops. Then you can switch over to AFF.

The initial S/L jumps get you past the sensory overload/freakout stages. Since you've technically proven you can pull for yourself, you will be able to jump with one instructor once you switch to AFF, which saves $$

Since you will be past the sensory overload stage, your AFF jumps will be more productive, fun, and less likely to have to repeat a level. More fun, less $$

[hchunter614 0]

Most DZ's offer packages that are somewhat discounted. Check into that and with Christmas coming up ask your family to get you gift certificates to the DZ you want to jump at. You can have the whole AFF progression paid off before you even start jumping in the spring.

[NWFlyer 2]

Bear in mind that not all DZs will be able to offer that kind of flexibility. I did a similar "hybrid" program that was kind of made up as I went along with the help of the DZO, but at the time the DZ offered both Static Line and AFF programs so instructors in both were available. If a DZ only offers static line, it may not have available AFF rated instructors, and vice versa.

Trying to switch from static line at one DZ to AFF at another DZ may also be problematic as you may have to start from scratch at the new DZ.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[llkenziell 0]

I know you've already gotten accounts of S/L progession, but I thought I'd throw in my 2 cents...

For me:

The first 2 jumps were simply jumping out and waiting for the S/L to kick in (i.e. have the plane pull my canopy out)
-There are a few reason why I liked this method. I was already super nervous about jumping so it was nice to know that I didn't have to worry about pulling the ripcord. I had line twists the first couple of times I jumped but it was not a problem at all - just twisted in my harness until I untwisted.

The next 3 jumpes were Practice Rip Cord Pulls (PRCP's) which were basically the same as the first two jumps, but I pulled the "dummy" rip cord.

My first freefall was on the same day that I did my last PRCP (jump #6) and went fine. No line twists etc. My first freefall was essentially a hop & pop from around 4000

After that my freefall time got progressivly longer. I had some issue keeping my heading, so my instructor started jumping with me around that time (jump # 18?) to help me out

I am now on jump #21 from 10,500 (highest my dropzone goes) and doing fine w. the progession. I only have 4 more jumps until I get my A liscense (if I do everything right)

Overall, I don't know much about AFF jumping so I can't compair but I really liked S/L progession and felt that it helped me not be so stressed out in the process. =)

Hope this helped!

"Living like fallen angels who lost their halos" - Unknown Prophets

-Love Life-

[NewGuy2005 51]

You're dead on about training at multiple DZs. I travel some with my job and attempted to make training jumps at some different DZs. That did not work because most of them wanted me to do a lot of remedial training.

Not a problem here at home, however. My home DZ did not offer AFF, but the awesome folks at the DZ in the next state did offer it and took the time to review my previous progress and determined where to start with the new program. Since the DZs are close and everyone knows each other, that made it work.

[orribolollie 0]

Looks through to see who has replied...

wildfan75 !!!! hahaha I absolutlely knew it!!!! Dude id have bet you a pair of lacies youd be in on this thread!

hehehe

Ok so heres my threpence: Both are cool!!! How could launching from a plane SL or otherwise not be cool????
Both get you to where you want to be; a qualified skydiver.
AFF means you get a full freefall expereince right from the start, so maybe your getting more fun. Also by the time you get your A licence you will have clocked up several minutes freefall time.

But, if you go SL your soon gonna make this time up once your qualified. PLUS, youll be a fearless hop n popper who can laugh in the face of AFF students scared of getting out the plane at 5000 feet!!!

The only time Id say definitely AFF over SL is if your doing this over weekends and you live in a mild / rainy location.
I have seen SL students stuck on 5 second delays FOR MONTHS because of this, loose their confidence and give up because of the struggle.

Good luck...either way youll have a fantastic experience.

[wmw999 2,134]

Quote

The only time Id say definitely AFF over SL is if your doing this over weekends and you live in a mild / rainy location.
I have seen SL students stuck on 5 second delays FOR MONTHS because of this, loose their confidence and give up because of the struggle.

On the other hand, in the US (where the FAA makes jumping through clouds a bad idea for everyone, not just SL jumpers), being an SL jumper might mean getting your knees in the breeze, even if only for a 5sec delay, when the AFF students are waiting for their full altitude.

Wendy W.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[orribolollie 0]

If its cloudy Id say nobodys going to jump. The SL student will be on the ground with everyone else as his / her jump ticket alone wont put up a jump plane.

[orribolollie 0]

I havent looked through the whole thread so it might have been touched upon, but....

If your basing the decision just on cost then here is a thought.
How much are you 'really' spending? I guess this is really a part time versus full time arguement.

I wonder how much you can save by doing the course intensively? No constant travel to the DZ every weekend when you could camp there and complete in a week.
Also, those weekends you are going to and from the DZ you could be working and saving money instead.

This may not sound much, but I bet if you add it up it might make the AFF, SL arguement irrelevant (in terms of cash saving).

So my advice!!! Work when you can through the winter and save that cash. Then take a week out and blast it in the spring or summer! Or you could do what someone else sais.....

[Calvin19 0]

yeah, your right. it never happened. i promise. just made up.

[wildfan75 1]

Firstly...leave my underware out of general skydiving discussions

Second, depends on where the cloud layer is.

Let's say they are at 4000'. A static liner gets to jump (and if they're on to free falls will have a 5-10 second delay). The AFF'er sits on the ground cursing mother nature.

If a static liner can't jump, neither can an AFF'er. If an AFF'er can't jump, doesn't mean a static liner can't.