hjumper33 0 #1 December 23, 2006 I had something happen today that really made me quite upset. I jump at a couple of different dropzones, and today I was first out, opened the door, looked down for a second (literally maybe one second) and exited the plane. On the next jump, first out again, a jumper employed by the DZ said to me, "why do you look down before you exit, when the pilot yells door that means open the door and get out of the plane" I responded "I always check the spot to make sure we arent off." He seemed very aggravated by this and said "No one in the plane is waiting for you to make sure its ok, no one back here trusts you, we trust (pilots name) just open the door and get out." I didnt pursue the matter anymore to say that I check the spot for ME not for anyone else, and yes, I will check the spot before I exit and aircraft, and proceeded to on that jump. Ive seen this person be rude to other people at various times, but this seems just plain dangerous. If I had been a jumper with 30 jumps and was told never to check the spot, I would probably think thats the right thing to do. I dont think ill be frequenting that DZ again. Am I wrong in feeling upset by this? Id love to hear if anyone else has been yelled at for checking the spot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
karenmeal 0 #2 December 23, 2006 From the way you describe what happened, it certainly seems like you are in the right. I know that some people take an exorbitant amount of time (30+ seconds) when checking a spot, and in some cases it can mess the spot up for a load. But taking several seconds to stick your head out the door, check for air-traffic and locate the LZ is perfectly reasonable. I would try to speak with this guy and ask him why it bothered him so much. If he is not willing to talk to you or be reasonable, talk to his boss and get his or her opinion on the matter. "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
icevideot 0 #3 December 23, 2006 Was the green light on? Some pilots and DZs have different procedures and we all have the right to choose where we jump and don't jump. You are taking responsibility for the outcome whether you look or not. Of course if you are first out you can look when you open the door and not wait until the green light and if you are in a later group you look while you are giving seperation."... this ain't a Nerf world." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AdamLanes 1 #4 December 23, 2006 You will see lots of dumb and dangerous people in your jumping career. Obviously this person is one of them. It is an excellent idea to always verify the spot for yourself. I would have told this person off. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
marcandalysse 0 #5 December 23, 2006 hey if they are in a rush, let them go first. if there is one major safety procedure that you as an individual is responsible for.....it is your decision to make to jump out of the plane and if you like the spot or not before exiting. as far as TRUST....I know who on my loads I trust with spotting, but ultimately it is my choice when I will exit on the jump run. Plenty of people have been hurt from a poor spot. The pilot might be very accurate but it is YOUR decision. Just my 2 cents. marc "The reason angels can fly is that they take themselves so lightly." --GK Chesterton Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D22369 0 #6 December 23, 2006 fuck him, not only are you checking the spot, but what about a small plane below.... A few years ago I was on a 3 way freefly dive, it was a plane full of 2 and 3 ways, we were the first group, light came on, we opened the door, looked down, nothing looked right at all, no airport, no pond, nothin..... just farmlands and houses/barns, of course everyone started screaming and yelling 'GO', I yelled back "fuck you - you go, grabbed the other two, we backed up to the opposite side and let the other (rather pissed) groups go ahead of us, once the last one left we looked out again, and still couldnt find the dz, after another 15 or so seconds, one of the others found it....... still waaaay in front of the aircraft. We sat in the door laughing our asses off about the dipshits that had no chance of a airport landing for about another minute, then exited and had a great dive and..... landed on the airport fucking lemmings. If you want to look, then look, of course you should try to not take too much time and hose the other groups, but if it doesnt look right.... let the others go then check againThey say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NelKel 0 #7 December 23, 2006 I had a guy tell me to not check the spot once. The second time he pushed my two way out the plane cause I was checking the spot......let say he never did that again..... It really all depends on how you talk to someone. If you know better, and I agree checking is good, don't listen to him, don't even try to explane your reason to him. (the guy your describing) It all really boils down to how you tell him to fuck off, and the tone in your voice whan you say it. Don't be scared of a bully, don't let thet guy run you off, go back to that DZ, throw your chest out, ignore him, and act like your not scared of him. I bet you will get different treatment from him. and If he says something to you about checking the spot for 1 second tell him your going to be waiting for him it the peas..." You and I will get this shit strait on the ground" Jump run is no place for bullies! Good Luck_________________________________________ Someone dies, someone says how stupid, someone says it was avoidable, someone says how to avoid it, someone calls them an idiot, someone proposes rule chan Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hjumper33 0 #8 December 23, 2006 No green light, or light at all. Just the pilot yelling door. On the first jump I literally looked down as I opened the door. On the second, the comment was initiated because I was looking through the plastic door to find the DZ at about 1000 feet until exit. I fully understand the long exit thing as I have had bad spots from 4 ways spotting for a while and then taking forever to climb out. I just really cant think of a reason why this person would say not to look at all ever. This is not a cessna either, its a moderately large turbine jump plane. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratostar 5 #9 December 23, 2006 Well anyone who has been reading these forums for any amount of time, could tell you what I would have said. And in case you you don't know it would be, it would be a big FUUUUUUCK YOOOOOUUUUUU.(but with a smile of course and a finger.)you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
icevideot 0 #10 December 23, 2006 QuoteI just really cant think of a reason why this person would say not to look at all ever. This person is clearly an idiot. Everyone here is right when they say to stand your ground with him. If the pilot isn't calling for the door a little before the time to exit then it is his fault that the exit isn't going fast enough to suit him. If this guy really works for the dz find the chief instructor or S&TA and ask them nicely whether or not you should check the spot. If the say no then ask who has to suffer the consequences of a bad spot. Then tell them to get this prick off your back. I would tell him off myself but I can be a "button pusher" at times so you don't have to confront him yourself if you don't want to. His ass chewing will carry more weight coming from someone with more experience and pull than he has."... this ain't a Nerf world." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Squeak 17 #11 December 23, 2006 Quote Plenty of people have been hurt from a poor spot. The pilot might be very accurate but it is YOUR decision. Just my 2 cents. marc BUT The pilot may not see the 183 or piper cherokee at a lower level heading your wayYou are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky) My Life ROCKS! How's yours doing? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CanuckInUSA 0 #12 December 23, 2006 Always check the spot. Just do it without wasting too much time. Try not to worry about the things you have no control over Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
darkwing 4 #13 December 23, 2006 I agree with pretty much everyone's responses above. I am curious what the DZO/S&TA at this DZ would tell you? -- Jeff My Skydiving History Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goobersnuftda 0 #14 December 23, 2006 Someone who didn't look before they leaped and the jump pilot thought everything was just A-OK =========================== Skydiver Dies After Hitting Propeller Michele Thibaudeax, 37, an expert skydiver from Carterswell, Georgia, died in a skydiving accident on May 27 at Skydive San Marcos in Texas. She was participating in a 30-way formation skydive, exiting from a King Air which was to be flying trail behind an Otter. At exit time the King Air ended up in front and above the Otter. Shortly after exiting the King Air, Michele struck the propeller of the Otter. One camera flyer who observed the impact managed to fly to her and pull her reserve handle, succeeding on the second attempt. But the reserve had been badly damaged during the collision and did not deploy correctly. Michele landed off the DZ in a yard, and she was pronounced dead at the scene, having been seriously injured from the chest up by the prop-strike. The incident, supposedly the first of its kind in skydiving history, is being investigated by the National Transportation Safety Board. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
btucker 0 #15 December 23, 2006 A few years ago we had a pilot spot on the wrong GPS waypoint. Ballons, aircraft, gliders, ice etc... Blue Dreams Benno Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MagicGuy 0 #16 December 23, 2006 Fuck that, I check my spot even after the first group leaves. I never jump into airspace that I haven't looked into. Do I take forever? Nope, because I hate when people do that. But I make damn sure that I know the spot before getting onto the plane, and that I make sure I'm at that spot before I jump out. I hate people that are pushy about leaving. I would definitely talk to the S&TA about the individual. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ZigZagMarquis 8 #17 December 23, 2006 Ya know, there's probably about a zillion of threads like this here on DZ.com. It seems to be systemic with drop zones / skydiving in general that if you jump long enough, you'll experience something like what hjumper33 speaks of... probably sooner then later. I've been on both ends of this... but now-a-days I'm in the "always check the spot" camp / don't be a lemming and just jump out because the green light is on. A couple of folks up-post made a few good points... First, there could be traffic that the pilot doesn't see... Second, GPS is not perfect, its just another tool to be used and if mis-understood, can screw you on a bad spot just as equally as spotting the "old fashioned" way... Third, always know the procedures of the DZ you're at. I jump mostly at a DZ where the pilot DOES NOT use GPS. The green light coming on means "this is jump run", "open the door and start spotting." For the most part, he's been doing it so long, corrections are usually not needed, just judge the exit point so the first to the last group get a managable spot; in other words, just hit the cut button at the right time. Its "fun" to have non-local-green-light-lemmings show up and start getting all bent yelling "green light!! open the door!!! get out!!!!". If I'm 1A, I'll open the door and motion for them to move forward and say, "You can go if you want"... if they go, I expalin to them what I said above, when they walk back to the hangar... or if they look out and get a quizical look on his or her face without leaving, I explain that we spot the "old fashioned way". Anyway, seems as long as there is skydiving there will be arguments over the spot one way or the other, but screaming Fuck You back at someone yelling at you to get out... well... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewGuy2005 51 #18 December 23, 2006 Would it be uncool to grab their reserve handle with one hand, flip the bird in their face with the other hand and scream at them to never push you again? Maybe too dangerous, but what an attention getter that would be. Bad idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #19 December 23, 2006 I would have a BIG Go Fuck Yourself to the moron.My least worry when looking out the door is the spot.There are big shiny objects with spinny things on the front called airplanes that fly around in the same airspace that we jump in.The guy is a jackass. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
hjumper33 0 #20 December 23, 2006 Haha, everyone seems so much more confrontational than me. I guess im still in the camp of I only have a little over 200 jumps and this guy probably has 1000s so what do I know, so I didnt think to tell him off right there. I still looked, and im alive . Everyone has made me feel so much better though about the whole incident. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
icevideot 0 #21 December 23, 2006 Oh come on. At least discuss it with the S&TA at the dz and let us know what his view is. I really would love to know. The next person this guy yells at may take it to heart and eventually be hurt by it. Blue Skies and Clear Airspace, Robin"... this ain't a Nerf world." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
D22369 0 #22 December 23, 2006 Haha, everyone seems so much more confrontational than me. I guess im still in the camp of I only have a little over 200 jumps and this guy probably has 1000s so what do I know, so I didnt think to tell him off right there. I still looked, and im alive . Everyone has made me feel so much better though about the whole incident. *** you knew to look downdude, jump numbers mean less than most peeps know.... an idiot with several k's worth of jumps is still an idiot.... I would much rather jump with heads up people with 50 jumps than those who have become complacent or reckless - no matter what their skill level.. RoyThey say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #23 December 23, 2006 Go look at the video in the thread about 5 threads down from this one and then e-mail the jackass the link. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #24 December 23, 2006 Quote Would it be uncool to grab their reserve handle with one hand, flip the bird in their face with the other hand and scream at them to never push you again? Maybe too dangerous, but what an attention getter that would be. Bad idea. Yeah, bad idea... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NewGuy2005 51 #25 December 23, 2006 QuoteQuote Would it be uncool to grab their reserve handle with one hand, flip the bird in their face with the other hand and scream at them to never push you again? Maybe too dangerous, but what an attention getter that would be. Bad idea. Yeah, bad idea... I won't, I promise. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
