Fast1 0 #1 January 16, 2007 RSL on higly loaded canopies such katana, velocity, extreme, crossfire, daemon etc.... Yes or Not?Andrea "Fast" Scaramuzza http://www.fastsky.org Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 136 #2 January 16, 2007 I'd vote : maybe. Depending on jump type and RSL type. But more prone to NO generally.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mark4 0 #3 January 16, 2007 Great poll! I'm going to have to chip in with my thoughts as this one is such a dilemma for me. The statistics tell me that having the RSL is a good idea. I think it's much more likely to save my life than kill me. After chopping a violent spinning main, deploying the reserve ASAP is the smart move even if it means some line twists. However I can't bring myself to connect my RSL. Some dumb part of me doesn't want to give up the illusion of control. Oh well I guess if I was smart I wouldn't be skydiving in the first place Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragon2 0 #4 January 16, 2007 My vote would be yes, except when jumping camera etc. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AndyMan 7 #5 January 16, 2007 If the canopy is the only deciding factor, then I say 'yes'. I think that more often than not, once people get to the point where they're flying a small HP canopy, ego plays a bigger role in this decision than it should. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Peej 0 #6 January 16, 2007 I'd be inclined to agree with you on this one. My point though would be that most of the people who are jumping high performance canopies have probably got cameras on their heads most of the time anyway - i know i have. Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites scooterskydives 0 #7 January 16, 2007 I recently had my rsl put back on.. Because...I switched from a sabre 107... non elliptical to a velocity 96 and had a pretty nasty spinning malfunction. And I reached in with both hands, one on cutaway one on reserve, went to pull cutaway and had to take my hand of the reserve handle to pull cutaway. I highly doubt I would of had trouble finding that reserve handle but I don't want to take any chance on that happening again and me not being able to find that handle, or hoping my cypress works. Yeah, everyone has there own opinion to things... and thats mine If God wanted man to stay on the ground. He would of put roots on them instead of feet. loving life GO-N-UP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites laughn_gas 0 #8 January 16, 2007 Sorry for the ignorance, but why can't you have an RSL if your flying camera?See ya in a minute. Peace out! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites packing_jarrett 0 #9 January 16, 2007 I think its because some RSL's are on the right riser while the camera is on the left side. If the left riser gets hung up on your helmet while the right riser with rsl on it doesn't, it will deploy your reserve into your main. *maybe*Na' Cho' Cheese Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jheadley 0 #10 January 16, 2007 If you don't use an RSL you are going to die. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites AFFI 0 #11 January 16, 2007 QuoteIf you don't use an RSL you are going to die. And if you do use one, you are going to die. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 136 #12 January 16, 2007 QuoteI think its because some RSL's are on the right riser while the camera is on the left side. If the left riser gets hung up on your helmet while the right riser with rsl on it doesn't, it will deploy your reserve into your main. *maybe*Nope. Try again. Assumptions, wild guesses, don't have their place in this kind of topic.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,471 #13 January 16, 2007 >Nope. Try again. Assumptions, wild guesses, don't have their place in this kind of topic. If you disagree, no problem - let people know why. Please do not use Speaker's Corner "gotcha!" tactics here, however. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pilotdave 0 #14 January 16, 2007 It's not about what side things are on or what can catch on what... if ANYTHING catches on any part of your helmet, the RSL can cause the reserve to fire into a main that's still entangled with your helmet. The idea is to make sure your main is clear before your reserve comes out. But for the record, I choose to continue to use a Skyhook RSL while jumping with a camera. I believe the benefits outweigh the risks... But I know that if I might possibly have an entanglement, I NEED to cut away the helmet before cutting away my main. I could be wrong, but I personally think I'm better off with the clean reserve deployments from the skyhook even though there's an increased risk in the case of an entanglement. The skyhook may also be helpful when I get a camera suit, due to the larger burble caused by the camera wings. A regular RSL would be a different story for me though. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,471 #15 January 16, 2007 RSL's are _more_ necessary on small canopies than on larger ones. The time you need an RSL is when time gets away from you, you cut away at 800 feet, and you then realize your reserve handle is tucked under your armpit from the violence of the spin. Small canopies are both more likely to get you low fast during a mal and more likely to spin violently. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragon2 0 #16 January 16, 2007 QuoteI think its because some RSL's are on the right riser while the camera is on the left side. Besides your guess being wrong, not all rsl's are on the right side, some are on the left and some are on both. Not all camera's are on the left side, some are on the right side, some are on top and some guys just jump way too many stuff so it sticks out at both sides ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites packing_jarrett 0 #17 January 16, 2007 In fareness to me I did say some rsl's and some cameras. Aren't we saying the same thing. No rsl on camera jump because camera's are snag hazards. I jump with cameras and don't have an rsl simply because I don't like jumpshack's rsl.Na' Cho' Cheese Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites diablopilot 2 #18 January 17, 2007 Yes.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiverek 60 #19 January 17, 2007 QuoteRSL's are _more_ necessary on small canopies than on larger ones. The time you need an RSL is when time gets away from you, you cut away at 800 feet, and you then realize your reserve handle is tucked under your armpit from the violence of the spin. Small canopies are both more likely to get you low fast during a mal and more likely to spin violently. From RICK HORN: "I got saved by a backup device (RSL) on Thursday, August 28th. I thought I'd relay the information. My background: 5000+ jumps 107 cutaways (No, i don't need to learn how to pack, a lot of test jumps and films.) About 20 unplanned cutaways. 21 years jumping, AFF I/E, Static Line I/E, Full time instructor at Perris, AFF Course Director for USPA. Equipment Background Rig- Javelin, Articulated harness (Rings top and bottom), RSL and Cypres equipped. Soft Reserve pillow Main, Stiletto 135 Reserve- PD143R I wear my leg straps and chest strap quite tight. The jump: A great AFF Level 4, the student did well, I watched deployment on the student's canopy, and hung around to give a thumbs up for the camera. This put everything happening a little lower than usual, so I threw the main out at about 2100, as opposed to the usual 2500 since I've gotten older and hopefully wiser. The main opened into a severe spin. There were no line twists, but I don't know what caused the spin, as I could not see the left side of the canopy. After the usual playing around with it, I decided to get rid of it. My procedures are grab cutaway, grab reserve, pull cutaway, pull reserve. I went for the cutaway handle, and to my surprise, it was on the LEFT side of my chest. I grabbed it, and reached for the reserve handle. It was somewhere under my left armpit. I could only touch it with my thumb, and not grab it. My theory is that a combination of the severe spin and the articulated harness allowed the handles to move so far. I had also practiced hooking my thumb between the reserve pillow and the housing. I was unable to do it. I then pulled the cutaway handle, as I was not accomplishing anything in my attempt to find the reserve handle. After pulling the cutaway, I continued to search for the reserve pillow. I was unable to find it. I theorize that it tucked under the main lift web as the harness slid back into position. That theory took a couple of days to figure out. Being honest, I have my sincere doubts that I would have found the handle within the 6 seconds of working time that I had left. My RSL prevented me from knowing the answer. I have since modified my rig to include a standard ripcord on the reserve. This should also serve as a reminder that backup devices, whether they be RSL or AAD can save your life, no matter what your experience. Please don't make this into a debate thread, there have been enough. I just wanted to share the experience, so people could make informed decisions. Rick Horn D-6277 AFFI/E USPA AFF Course Director" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragon2 0 #20 January 17, 2007 check out the last post in this thread: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=79670;search_string=camera%20mistake;#79670 ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 2shay 0 #21 January 18, 2007 i would say yes my rig it isnt on there at all but i jump camera and i would use it when im not doing camera which is very little but i know i would forget to unhook it after a non camera jump just my luck however they are good no doubt about it jus depends on your jumping situationdon't try your bullshit with me!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites UDSkyJunkie 0 #22 January 19, 2007 The numbers say yes, my personal choice is no. However, if you change the poll to include skyhook, then I say yes. I'm getting my vector retrofitted."Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tbrown 26 #23 January 19, 2007 It's one more thing between you and the ground, can that be so bad ? Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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dragon2 0 #4 January 16, 2007 My vote would be yes, except when jumping camera etc. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AndyMan 7 #5 January 16, 2007 If the canopy is the only deciding factor, then I say 'yes'. I think that more often than not, once people get to the point where they're flying a small HP canopy, ego plays a bigger role in this decision than it should. _Am__ You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peej 0 #6 January 16, 2007 I'd be inclined to agree with you on this one. My point though would be that most of the people who are jumping high performance canopies have probably got cameras on their heads most of the time anyway - i know i have. Advertisio Rodriguez / Sky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scooterskydives 0 #7 January 16, 2007 I recently had my rsl put back on.. Because...I switched from a sabre 107... non elliptical to a velocity 96 and had a pretty nasty spinning malfunction. And I reached in with both hands, one on cutaway one on reserve, went to pull cutaway and had to take my hand of the reserve handle to pull cutaway. I highly doubt I would of had trouble finding that reserve handle but I don't want to take any chance on that happening again and me not being able to find that handle, or hoping my cypress works. Yeah, everyone has there own opinion to things... and thats mine If God wanted man to stay on the ground. He would of put roots on them instead of feet. loving life GO-N-UP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
laughn_gas 0 #8 January 16, 2007 Sorry for the ignorance, but why can't you have an RSL if your flying camera?See ya in a minute. Peace out! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packing_jarrett 0 #9 January 16, 2007 I think its because some RSL's are on the right riser while the camera is on the left side. If the left riser gets hung up on your helmet while the right riser with rsl on it doesn't, it will deploy your reserve into your main. *maybe*Na' Cho' Cheese Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jheadley 0 #10 January 16, 2007 If you don't use an RSL you are going to die. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #11 January 16, 2007 QuoteIf you don't use an RSL you are going to die. And if you do use one, you are going to die. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 136 #12 January 16, 2007 QuoteI think its because some RSL's are on the right riser while the camera is on the left side. If the left riser gets hung up on your helmet while the right riser with rsl on it doesn't, it will deploy your reserve into your main. *maybe*Nope. Try again. Assumptions, wild guesses, don't have their place in this kind of topic.scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,471 #13 January 16, 2007 >Nope. Try again. Assumptions, wild guesses, don't have their place in this kind of topic. If you disagree, no problem - let people know why. Please do not use Speaker's Corner "gotcha!" tactics here, however. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #14 January 16, 2007 It's not about what side things are on or what can catch on what... if ANYTHING catches on any part of your helmet, the RSL can cause the reserve to fire into a main that's still entangled with your helmet. The idea is to make sure your main is clear before your reserve comes out. But for the record, I choose to continue to use a Skyhook RSL while jumping with a camera. I believe the benefits outweigh the risks... But I know that if I might possibly have an entanglement, I NEED to cut away the helmet before cutting away my main. I could be wrong, but I personally think I'm better off with the clean reserve deployments from the skyhook even though there's an increased risk in the case of an entanglement. The skyhook may also be helpful when I get a camera suit, due to the larger burble caused by the camera wings. A regular RSL would be a different story for me though. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,471 #15 January 16, 2007 RSL's are _more_ necessary on small canopies than on larger ones. The time you need an RSL is when time gets away from you, you cut away at 800 feet, and you then realize your reserve handle is tucked under your armpit from the violence of the spin. Small canopies are both more likely to get you low fast during a mal and more likely to spin violently. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #16 January 16, 2007 QuoteI think its because some RSL's are on the right riser while the camera is on the left side. Besides your guess being wrong, not all rsl's are on the right side, some are on the left and some are on both. Not all camera's are on the left side, some are on the right side, some are on top and some guys just jump way too many stuff so it sticks out at both sides ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
packing_jarrett 0 #17 January 16, 2007 In fareness to me I did say some rsl's and some cameras. Aren't we saying the same thing. No rsl on camera jump because camera's are snag hazards. I jump with cameras and don't have an rsl simply because I don't like jumpshack's rsl.Na' Cho' Cheese Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #18 January 17, 2007 Yes.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 60 #19 January 17, 2007 QuoteRSL's are _more_ necessary on small canopies than on larger ones. The time you need an RSL is when time gets away from you, you cut away at 800 feet, and you then realize your reserve handle is tucked under your armpit from the violence of the spin. Small canopies are both more likely to get you low fast during a mal and more likely to spin violently. From RICK HORN: "I got saved by a backup device (RSL) on Thursday, August 28th. I thought I'd relay the information. My background: 5000+ jumps 107 cutaways (No, i don't need to learn how to pack, a lot of test jumps and films.) About 20 unplanned cutaways. 21 years jumping, AFF I/E, Static Line I/E, Full time instructor at Perris, AFF Course Director for USPA. Equipment Background Rig- Javelin, Articulated harness (Rings top and bottom), RSL and Cypres equipped. Soft Reserve pillow Main, Stiletto 135 Reserve- PD143R I wear my leg straps and chest strap quite tight. The jump: A great AFF Level 4, the student did well, I watched deployment on the student's canopy, and hung around to give a thumbs up for the camera. This put everything happening a little lower than usual, so I threw the main out at about 2100, as opposed to the usual 2500 since I've gotten older and hopefully wiser. The main opened into a severe spin. There were no line twists, but I don't know what caused the spin, as I could not see the left side of the canopy. After the usual playing around with it, I decided to get rid of it. My procedures are grab cutaway, grab reserve, pull cutaway, pull reserve. I went for the cutaway handle, and to my surprise, it was on the LEFT side of my chest. I grabbed it, and reached for the reserve handle. It was somewhere under my left armpit. I could only touch it with my thumb, and not grab it. My theory is that a combination of the severe spin and the articulated harness allowed the handles to move so far. I had also practiced hooking my thumb between the reserve pillow and the housing. I was unable to do it. I then pulled the cutaway handle, as I was not accomplishing anything in my attempt to find the reserve handle. After pulling the cutaway, I continued to search for the reserve pillow. I was unable to find it. I theorize that it tucked under the main lift web as the harness slid back into position. That theory took a couple of days to figure out. Being honest, I have my sincere doubts that I would have found the handle within the 6 seconds of working time that I had left. My RSL prevented me from knowing the answer. I have since modified my rig to include a standard ripcord on the reserve. This should also serve as a reminder that backup devices, whether they be RSL or AAD can save your life, no matter what your experience. Please don't make this into a debate thread, there have been enough. I just wanted to share the experience, so people could make informed decisions. Rick Horn D-6277 AFFI/E USPA AFF Course Director" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #20 January 17, 2007 check out the last post in this thread: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=79670;search_string=camera%20mistake;#79670 ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2shay 0 #21 January 18, 2007 i would say yes my rig it isnt on there at all but i jump camera and i would use it when im not doing camera which is very little but i know i would forget to unhook it after a non camera jump just my luck however they are good no doubt about it jus depends on your jumping situationdon't try your bullshit with me!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
UDSkyJunkie 0 #22 January 19, 2007 The numbers say yes, my personal choice is no. However, if you change the poll to include skyhook, then I say yes. I'm getting my vector retrofitted."Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tbrown 26 #23 January 19, 2007 It's one more thing between you and the ground, can that be so bad ? Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites