BillyVance 34 #1 October 19, 2006 http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17347138&BRD=1817&PAG=461&dept_id=222077&rfi=6 Any comments?"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Andrewwhyte 1 #2 October 19, 2006 Maybe Coolege will pay him to relocate there. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutem 0 #3 October 19, 2006 I'm curious how much money this airport gets from the fed's (if any) is the result of operations at Skydive Arizona? I don't know for sure, but it seems someone told me that each skydiver is counted as a landing at the airport. Is this true? If so how much money will the airport lose on the reduced number of operations? I would also think some of the other Eloy buissnesses would side with SDA on the basis of lost skydiver revenue if the DZ where to move. James Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
HydroGuy 0 #4 October 19, 2006 How will they move the tunnel?Get in - Get off - Get away....repeat as neccessary Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #5 October 19, 2006 QuoteHow will they move the tunnel? Good question! I forgot about that..."Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zenister 0 #6 October 19, 2006 I love short sighted fools... dont they know for all intents and purposes the city of Eloy will cease to exist if SDAZ leaves... hell right now the only reason ANYONE knows the name of Eloy is SDAZ....it would be a one stoplight town otherwise...____________________________________ Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #7 October 19, 2006 Quoteit would be a one stoplight town otherwise... You mean they have more than 1 now? Where?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
breadhead 0 #8 October 19, 2006 Quotethe only reason ANYONE knows the name of Eloy is SDAZ and the prison Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #9 October 19, 2006 Quotehttp://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17347138&BRD=1817&PAG=461&dept_id=222077&rfi=6 Any comments? It's a two-part article, the first helps give a bit more context: http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=17318645&BRD=1817&PAG=461&dept_id=222077&rfi=6"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rehmwa 2 #10 October 19, 2006 Go get 'em, Larry. Larry's a great businessman, he has the ability to move and the gift of being able to say 'no' when he has to. This will work out. ... Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #11 October 19, 2006 QuoteQuoteGo get 'em, Larry. Larry's a great businessman, he has the ability to move and the gift of being able to say 'no' when he has to. This will work out. I agree Mr Hill is one smart cookie. When he was asked to leave Coolidge he didn't fall down, He was able to negotiate a favorable deal and came out ahead and moved to eloy. Eloy We Googled Eloy Ariz, Federal prison, private prison, and a sheetrock company there were more references to skydiving than anything else. Consultants get paid to do studies, right or wrong, good or bad, they get paid for their work and move on. It appears to me that the city hasn't been dealing in good faith with the DZ during this process, I'm sure the city is aware the tunnel can't be moved with the rest of the operation so it gives them a false sense of power during negotiation. I'm guessing its located on private property and would still be a sucess without the DZ. The new Hotel On a positive note, maybe the new DZ will have some more team rooms for the future nationals R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WILDBILLAQR 0 #12 October 19, 2006 QuoteI love short sighted fools... dont they know for all intents and purposes the city of Eloy will cease to exist if SDAZ leaves... hell right now the only reason ANYONE knows the name of Eloy is SDAZ....it would be a one stoplight town otherwise... --------------------------------------------------------- Not exactly! All the small towns on the I-10 corrador have had exsplosive growth in the last 10 years including Eloy. The problem for Eloy is the housing boom is over for the next 6 months to 2 years and they have a large amount of lots that wont see houses any time soon. All of thier projected income is sitting on those empty lots. Now they need to find another cash cow, so why not bleed thier 2nd biggest industry. True, Eloy is known internationally, but, only by skydivers, and were not that big of a market.---------------------------------------------- "Thats not smoke, thats BUCKEYE!!" AQR#3,CWR#49 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #13 October 19, 2006 Among the new rates: "T-Hangars $200 per month" That's what I pay for a large T-hangar in the Chicago suburbs, at an airport with way more facilities than Eloy!... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #14 October 19, 2006 Quote Among the new rates: "T-Hangars $200 per month" That's what I pay for a large T-hangar in the Chicago suburbs, at an airport with way more facilities than Eloy! There's the rub. The argument is that the consultants used data from airports like yours to draw up its numbers, rather than taking a look at the real and unique situation in Eloy. This should be interesting to follow...Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBCOOPER 1 #15 October 19, 2006 No extra charge for the tumbleweedsReplying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azdiver 0 #16 October 20, 2006 Quote***QuoteGo get 'em, Larry. I'm sure the city is aware the tunnel can't be moved with the rest of the operation so it gives them a false sense of power during negotiation. R.I.P.it can be moved ive seen 100 year old barns that were 200ft long 100 ft wide 40 ft tall being moved the tunnel wouldnt be that hard only thing that would need to be redone is the hole, if he was to move i would bet he would build his own private airport.light travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bbarnhouse 0 #17 October 20, 2006 I have lots of comments. This is a long read, but an important one. A wee letter to the editor In the matter of the city of Eloy seeking to charge Skydive Arizona fees to use the airport, there are some facts that need to be stated. The city manager and the consulting firm first proped that Skydive Arizona pay $16,000 a month for access to the airport. They have stated that such fees are reasonable. In fact, the opposite is true. The suggested fees are completely unreasonable, violate exisiting contracts, and can not be justified by any logical or legal argument. The main point made by the city manager abd the consulting firm is that Skydive Arizona has a "through the fence" (TTF) operation, and some FAA and state DoT documents caution airport proprietors about possible abuse of this situation, The suggestion in those documents is that a TTF may be using airport facilities in such a way that on-airport businesses are put at a disadvantage, or that the TTF operation masy not be paying its full share of the cost of using the facilities. No doubt such situations may exist at other airports. However, they do not apply in this matter. The first case, that of putting on-airport operations at a disadvantage, is not applicable. Skydive Arizona provides skydiving services. No on-airport facility does so. Skydive Arizona does not sell fuel. It does not maintain,paint,upholster, build or repair aircraft or avionics. It does not provide flight training, charter flights, or other aviation services. In other words, there is no business on the airport that stands to lose any revenue (and therefore deprive the aiport of income) through the existance of Skydive Arizona's TTF operation. To suggest that Skydive Arizona is a burden to the airport by reducing revenue is obviously false. The nest question is whether or not Skydive Arizona is paying its fair share for using airport facilities. The consultants hired by the city manager state that the Eloy airports FY '05-'06 budget shows income of $73,636.04 and expenses of $181,450.00. This leave a shortfall of $107,813.96, assumming that the expense figure is accurate. Of those expenses, almost none are for services or facilities used by Skydive Arizona. Skydive Arizona uses the aircraft taxiway and runway. It does nto use the buildings. It did not need to buy or lease land. It did not pay for the training andf travel of city employees who do not provide it with services. The list goes on and on. Almost nothing that the city spent money on is a part of the airport used by Skydive Arizona-or other TTF operations for that matter. The city should consider how to better manage the facilities in orderti reduce expenses or increase income from businesses that actually USE the facilities, not look for the nearest "deep pocket" to releive their deficit. WhatSkydive Arizona does use is the taxiway and the runway. This was a major expense, including $50,000 tomatch State and Federal grants to improve the facility (more on that later). Airport improvement grants are based on the number of operations at an airport and funded by state and federal taxes on fuel. In 2005 Skydive Arizona paid $79,977.69 in such taxes abd provided the majority of operations that allowed for the grant to happen in the first place. During its time in Eloy, Skydive Arizona has paid over $1,000,000. in fuel taxes, about two thirds if the total cost of the entire runway improvement project. the suggestion that Skydive Arizona is not paying for the runway and taxiway use is without merit. Finally the city argues that Skydive Arizona should have a contractual agreement with the City that establishes fair compensation for the use of the Eloy airport. Well...such an agreement does exisit. Itwas formed withthe City of Eloy in 1990, when Skydive Arizona first agreed to come here. The gisst of the agreement was that Skydive Arizona would be a viable business to a community deseratley in need of these. In exchange, Skydive Arizona would have TTF access to the airport at no charge. Furthermore, since 1983 the Mid-Arizona Air Plaza has been a part of the City of Eloy's development plan. This air plaza is guaranteed legal access to the airport through the fence at no charge. In other words, not one but two contracts signed by the City of Eloy guarantee TTF access at no charge to occupants of Mid-Arizona Air Plaza, including Skydive Arizona. Skydive Arizona has more than kept up its share of the agreement made in 1990, bringing business to the airport and to Eloy. In 2005, the company paid $162,000 in sales taxes and $65,000 in property taxes. Other businesses, which would not exisit but for Skydive Arizona, added to eloy's income tax. Finally, Skydive Arizona paid employees and contractors nearly 2 million dollars in 2005, much of whcih was spent in the local area. By any economic standard, Skydive Arizona has provided a bonanza to the City of Eloy. The most conservative economic evaluation tequniques use multipliers in the neighborhood of 2.0 to 4.0 to estimate the economic benefits of businesses such as Skydive Arizona. In other words, when the amount of money spent at a business is added to the payroll and purchases of that business,one can assume that for every dollar involved, one to three more dollars in the economic activity is generated. Sales of lift tickets alone generated about two and a half million dollars in 2005. Instructional fees and other services add to that. Acillary services such as parachute rigging,packing,and repair increase the number. using the multiplier of just 2.0, Skydive Arizona injects a minimum of ten million dollars worth of economic activity into the region annually,much of whcih remains in Eloy. This doesnot take into consideration money spent off the facility at area grocery stores, gas stations, motels and so on bySkydive Arizona's customers, who come from all over the world to visit Eloy. Given that Skydive Arizona provides a tremendous economic benefit to the city at virtually no cost to the EloyMunicipal Airport. whatwould motivate the city to suggest that Skydive Arizona should pay a fee one hundred times higher than those proposed for other TTF businesses? It becomes clear when one looks at the history of the current city manager and his consultants. This is not the first time that Skydive Arizona has been the target of attempts to extort money to pay for improvements or services it has never requested and will never use. The City is proposing to make one successful business pay for the prospect of attracting other businesses, which may or may not generate income to the airport. The consulting firm admitted in open city council that their studies are a result of what they were asked to provide. They freely state that in forming their reccomendations, they did not examine airports and businesses with economic situations like Eloy's, contending thatmuch larger airports with many viable on-airport businesses provide an appropriate model. The consultants did NOT look at a single airport in Pinal county during his consultation. He did NOT look at a single airport with aomparable levels of activity. This is nothing less than incompetence. In reality, Eloy bears little resemlance to Scottsdale,Kingman, Yuma, or Mesa-just a few of the large regional airports used by the consulting firm for their analysis. The city clearly hopes to improve the Eloy Airport for future clients by attempting to pass exhorbitant user fees on the one business that could conceivably generate somee funding for these projects, even though that business will never benefit from any of those improvements. The consulting firm stand to benefit by being retained by the City. Skydive Arizona has no intention of paying any fees proposed by the City manager. A contract already exisits, and Skydive Arizona has never breached it. Should the City choose to breech the existing contract and attemtp to charge unreasonable and unwarranted fess, Skydive Arizona is prepared to bring the matter before the court. Before events proceed, Skydive Arizona has suggested to the City Council that they investigate the TTF situation at the Casa grande Airport, where the exisiting TTF agreements were upheld in court. Skydive Arizona has also asked the City Council to consider this: on two previous occassions the consulting firm and the city manager gave false information to the council about projects related to the Eloy Airport. The falsley stated that the FAA would not approve the SkyVenture wind tunnel or allow aircraft to operate on the airport taxiway while the runway improvements were underway. The Eloy airport is a federally funded airport, and with that comes the grant assurance program. If the City of Eloy is found to be in non-compliance the federal government has the right to ask for all the monies back. So far I have found 5 instances where the city is in non-compliance. Problem is...they havent even read the grant assurances. In the end folks..the City's actions may very well cost the City huge legal expenses and cripple one of the more successful businesses. Then again... If you made it this far...good on you! Thats about all I have to sayP.S. sorry but no time to correct typos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ltdiver 3 #18 October 20, 2006 QuoteQuotethe only reason ANYONE knows the name of Eloy is SDAZ and the prison And the truck scales. I have several acquaintances who are truck drivers. They consider Eloy the 'arm-pit of america'. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #19 October 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuotethe only reason ANYONE knows the name of Eloy is SDAZ and the prison And the truck scales. I have several acquaintances who are truck drivers. They consider Eloy the 'arm-pit of america'. ltdiver What does that make Amarillo or El Paso?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #20 October 20, 2006 BB, Very well written letter. Is that a letter from you to the newspaper?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #21 October 20, 2006 Hi BB Thanks for the explanation. IMO there's one slight misconception in your post QuoteThe consultants did NOT look at a single airport in Pinal county during his consultation. He did NOT look at a single airport with aomparable levels of activity. This is nothing less than incompetence. The consultant is a hired gun, he was hired and paid by the mayor. He did exactly what he was told to do. This isn't incompetence it's being a "pro" just like the oldest profession. I'm sure if he was hired by Mr Hill his conclusion would have been completely different. Remember a lot of pros said their were WMD's in Iraq to justify a FUBAR QuoteThe consulting firm stand to benefit by being retained by the City. As long as the consultant speads his legs whenever he's asked to by the city he'll continue to do business with the city.However eloy is a very small fish so the consultant is a low ball rookie or a worn out ho. If the consultant got paid $20k for his report I'm guessing it was a cut copy and paste of a previous study and took less than 100 people hrs to produce. The report don't mean nothing. Thats why we have contracts and courts. The lawyers always get paid But the cost of Mr Hills attorney fees will hopefully be chump change compared to what the city wants to charge/steal from the dz. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bbarnhouse 0 #22 October 20, 2006 Well Mr. Hill does have other options. As he owns 380 acres of land some of which are on both sides of the airport, he could close the operation and do nothing. He could let the land sit and just pay his property taxes. No new development...no new tax dollars. He could sell off a piece of the land, make a few million and just operate the tunnel on his private land. He could sell everything and open up somewhere new. He could close up shop and take in aircraft for maintenance in the hangars that belong to him. Or he could take the City to court for breech of contract and cause trouble for the city through the non-compliances of the grant assurances. Let's all make some pop corn shall we? QuoteIMO there's one slight misconception in your post No I think we got it straight by their own admissions. I do realize that hired guns will put out what you pay them for. In the end the truth is what matters. It would be interesting to see what happens when a couple of tough questions are asked about the airport funds being redirected to the general fund. OOPS grant assurance problem again Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,254 #23 October 20, 2006 I have a question, d'ya think calling a place the size of Eloy a 'City' may have contributed to the administrators apparent power trip?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites bbarnhouse 0 #24 October 20, 2006 QuoteI have a question, d'ya think calling a place the size of Eloy a 'City' may have contributed to the administrators apparent power trip Well think about this. Eloy actually is one of the largest "cities" by land mass. This means that the City manager makes a hefty income. Some say even more than the Governor, but I havent' researched that. Another question...if the airport was operating in a deficit, then how could the city manager possibly justify paying $72k a year for an airport manager? Umm what exactly is there to manage at the airport? The City manager hired the individual using "discretionary" funds. The city council was unaware of this hire and when the question was brought before the council, the individual was summarily dismissed. So where did those funds come from? All income generated on the airport has to go back into the airport per the grant assurance agreement. I do not see any improvements. There are items in need of repair that the city is neglecting to take care of. So here is another little tid-bit for you. The city called me to inform me that they were closing the runway to do maintenance. I inquired as to what kind of maintenance. WEED pulling. I was then told that they had filed a NOTAM informing us that the runway was to be closed and we didnt comply. I offered that we would be happy to use the taxiway while they were "pulling weeds" and switch to the runway when they moved to the other side. I was told NO.(remember that we operated off the taxiway when the new runway was being built so why not?) I was also told that if we did not comply, they would contact the FAA. Umm EXCUSE me? I then informed the city that they had no authority to close the runway. Only the FAA can do that. Only the FAA has the say over safety on a federally funded airport, and that they were once again in viliolation of the assurance program. Ummm they haven't read the assurance! The runway remained open. Skydive Arizona is not a bully, nor unreasonable. We offered viable solutions to current issues and were more than willing to work with the City of Eloy. The mayor of the city remarked that it is his airport. I beg to differ. They accepted federal and state money for this airport and it belongs to the taxpayers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jakee 1,254 #25 October 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteI have a question, d'ya think calling a place the size of Eloy a 'City' may have contributed to the administrators apparent power trip Well think about this. Eloy actually is one of the largest "cities" by land mass. This means that the City manager makes a hefty income. Some say even more than the Governor, but I haven't researched that. Ok, I just googled it - how can 11,000 people possibly sprawl over 72sq miles! Thats two and a half football pitches for every single person living there! Anyway, back to you scheduled programming, I'm happy to hear you so confident of SkydiveAz's chances of sticking it to the man Good luck to everyone over thereDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 1 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
bbarnhouse 0 #17 October 20, 2006 I have lots of comments. This is a long read, but an important one. A wee letter to the editor In the matter of the city of Eloy seeking to charge Skydive Arizona fees to use the airport, there are some facts that need to be stated. The city manager and the consulting firm first proped that Skydive Arizona pay $16,000 a month for access to the airport. They have stated that such fees are reasonable. In fact, the opposite is true. The suggested fees are completely unreasonable, violate exisiting contracts, and can not be justified by any logical or legal argument. The main point made by the city manager abd the consulting firm is that Skydive Arizona has a "through the fence" (TTF) operation, and some FAA and state DoT documents caution airport proprietors about possible abuse of this situation, The suggestion in those documents is that a TTF may be using airport facilities in such a way that on-airport businesses are put at a disadvantage, or that the TTF operation masy not be paying its full share of the cost of using the facilities. No doubt such situations may exist at other airports. However, they do not apply in this matter. The first case, that of putting on-airport operations at a disadvantage, is not applicable. Skydive Arizona provides skydiving services. No on-airport facility does so. Skydive Arizona does not sell fuel. It does not maintain,paint,upholster, build or repair aircraft or avionics. It does not provide flight training, charter flights, or other aviation services. In other words, there is no business on the airport that stands to lose any revenue (and therefore deprive the aiport of income) through the existance of Skydive Arizona's TTF operation. To suggest that Skydive Arizona is a burden to the airport by reducing revenue is obviously false. The nest question is whether or not Skydive Arizona is paying its fair share for using airport facilities. The consultants hired by the city manager state that the Eloy airports FY '05-'06 budget shows income of $73,636.04 and expenses of $181,450.00. This leave a shortfall of $107,813.96, assumming that the expense figure is accurate. Of those expenses, almost none are for services or facilities used by Skydive Arizona. Skydive Arizona uses the aircraft taxiway and runway. It does nto use the buildings. It did not need to buy or lease land. It did not pay for the training andf travel of city employees who do not provide it with services. The list goes on and on. Almost nothing that the city spent money on is a part of the airport used by Skydive Arizona-or other TTF operations for that matter. The city should consider how to better manage the facilities in orderti reduce expenses or increase income from businesses that actually USE the facilities, not look for the nearest "deep pocket" to releive their deficit. WhatSkydive Arizona does use is the taxiway and the runway. This was a major expense, including $50,000 tomatch State and Federal grants to improve the facility (more on that later). Airport improvement grants are based on the number of operations at an airport and funded by state and federal taxes on fuel. In 2005 Skydive Arizona paid $79,977.69 in such taxes abd provided the majority of operations that allowed for the grant to happen in the first place. During its time in Eloy, Skydive Arizona has paid over $1,000,000. in fuel taxes, about two thirds if the total cost of the entire runway improvement project. the suggestion that Skydive Arizona is not paying for the runway and taxiway use is without merit. Finally the city argues that Skydive Arizona should have a contractual agreement with the City that establishes fair compensation for the use of the Eloy airport. Well...such an agreement does exisit. Itwas formed withthe City of Eloy in 1990, when Skydive Arizona first agreed to come here. The gisst of the agreement was that Skydive Arizona would be a viable business to a community deseratley in need of these. In exchange, Skydive Arizona would have TTF access to the airport at no charge. Furthermore, since 1983 the Mid-Arizona Air Plaza has been a part of the City of Eloy's development plan. This air plaza is guaranteed legal access to the airport through the fence at no charge. In other words, not one but two contracts signed by the City of Eloy guarantee TTF access at no charge to occupants of Mid-Arizona Air Plaza, including Skydive Arizona. Skydive Arizona has more than kept up its share of the agreement made in 1990, bringing business to the airport and to Eloy. In 2005, the company paid $162,000 in sales taxes and $65,000 in property taxes. Other businesses, which would not exisit but for Skydive Arizona, added to eloy's income tax. Finally, Skydive Arizona paid employees and contractors nearly 2 million dollars in 2005, much of whcih was spent in the local area. By any economic standard, Skydive Arizona has provided a bonanza to the City of Eloy. The most conservative economic evaluation tequniques use multipliers in the neighborhood of 2.0 to 4.0 to estimate the economic benefits of businesses such as Skydive Arizona. In other words, when the amount of money spent at a business is added to the payroll and purchases of that business,one can assume that for every dollar involved, one to three more dollars in the economic activity is generated. Sales of lift tickets alone generated about two and a half million dollars in 2005. Instructional fees and other services add to that. Acillary services such as parachute rigging,packing,and repair increase the number. using the multiplier of just 2.0, Skydive Arizona injects a minimum of ten million dollars worth of economic activity into the region annually,much of whcih remains in Eloy. This doesnot take into consideration money spent off the facility at area grocery stores, gas stations, motels and so on bySkydive Arizona's customers, who come from all over the world to visit Eloy. Given that Skydive Arizona provides a tremendous economic benefit to the city at virtually no cost to the EloyMunicipal Airport. whatwould motivate the city to suggest that Skydive Arizona should pay a fee one hundred times higher than those proposed for other TTF businesses? It becomes clear when one looks at the history of the current city manager and his consultants. This is not the first time that Skydive Arizona has been the target of attempts to extort money to pay for improvements or services it has never requested and will never use. The City is proposing to make one successful business pay for the prospect of attracting other businesses, which may or may not generate income to the airport. The consulting firm admitted in open city council that their studies are a result of what they were asked to provide. They freely state that in forming their reccomendations, they did not examine airports and businesses with economic situations like Eloy's, contending thatmuch larger airports with many viable on-airport businesses provide an appropriate model. The consultants did NOT look at a single airport in Pinal county during his consultation. He did NOT look at a single airport with aomparable levels of activity. This is nothing less than incompetence. In reality, Eloy bears little resemlance to Scottsdale,Kingman, Yuma, or Mesa-just a few of the large regional airports used by the consulting firm for their analysis. The city clearly hopes to improve the Eloy Airport for future clients by attempting to pass exhorbitant user fees on the one business that could conceivably generate somee funding for these projects, even though that business will never benefit from any of those improvements. The consulting firm stand to benefit by being retained by the City. Skydive Arizona has no intention of paying any fees proposed by the City manager. A contract already exisits, and Skydive Arizona has never breached it. Should the City choose to breech the existing contract and attemtp to charge unreasonable and unwarranted fess, Skydive Arizona is prepared to bring the matter before the court. Before events proceed, Skydive Arizona has suggested to the City Council that they investigate the TTF situation at the Casa grande Airport, where the exisiting TTF agreements were upheld in court. Skydive Arizona has also asked the City Council to consider this: on two previous occassions the consulting firm and the city manager gave false information to the council about projects related to the Eloy Airport. The falsley stated that the FAA would not approve the SkyVenture wind tunnel or allow aircraft to operate on the airport taxiway while the runway improvements were underway. The Eloy airport is a federally funded airport, and with that comes the grant assurance program. If the City of Eloy is found to be in non-compliance the federal government has the right to ask for all the monies back. So far I have found 5 instances where the city is in non-compliance. Problem is...they havent even read the grant assurances. In the end folks..the City's actions may very well cost the City huge legal expenses and cripple one of the more successful businesses. Then again... If you made it this far...good on you! Thats about all I have to sayP.S. sorry but no time to correct typos Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #18 October 20, 2006 QuoteQuotethe only reason ANYONE knows the name of Eloy is SDAZ and the prison And the truck scales. I have several acquaintances who are truck drivers. They consider Eloy the 'arm-pit of america'. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #19 October 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuotethe only reason ANYONE knows the name of Eloy is SDAZ and the prison And the truck scales. I have several acquaintances who are truck drivers. They consider Eloy the 'arm-pit of america'. ltdiver What does that make Amarillo or El Paso?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #20 October 20, 2006 BB, Very well written letter. Is that a letter from you to the newspaper?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #21 October 20, 2006 Hi BB Thanks for the explanation. IMO there's one slight misconception in your post QuoteThe consultants did NOT look at a single airport in Pinal county during his consultation. He did NOT look at a single airport with aomparable levels of activity. This is nothing less than incompetence. The consultant is a hired gun, he was hired and paid by the mayor. He did exactly what he was told to do. This isn't incompetence it's being a "pro" just like the oldest profession. I'm sure if he was hired by Mr Hill his conclusion would have been completely different. Remember a lot of pros said their were WMD's in Iraq to justify a FUBAR QuoteThe consulting firm stand to benefit by being retained by the City. As long as the consultant speads his legs whenever he's asked to by the city he'll continue to do business with the city.However eloy is a very small fish so the consultant is a low ball rookie or a worn out ho. If the consultant got paid $20k for his report I'm guessing it was a cut copy and paste of a previous study and took less than 100 people hrs to produce. The report don't mean nothing. Thats why we have contracts and courts. The lawyers always get paid But the cost of Mr Hills attorney fees will hopefully be chump change compared to what the city wants to charge/steal from the dz. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #22 October 20, 2006 Well Mr. Hill does have other options. As he owns 380 acres of land some of which are on both sides of the airport, he could close the operation and do nothing. He could let the land sit and just pay his property taxes. No new development...no new tax dollars. He could sell off a piece of the land, make a few million and just operate the tunnel on his private land. He could sell everything and open up somewhere new. He could close up shop and take in aircraft for maintenance in the hangars that belong to him. Or he could take the City to court for breech of contract and cause trouble for the city through the non-compliances of the grant assurances. Let's all make some pop corn shall we? QuoteIMO there's one slight misconception in your post No I think we got it straight by their own admissions. I do realize that hired guns will put out what you pay them for. In the end the truth is what matters. It would be interesting to see what happens when a couple of tough questions are asked about the airport funds being redirected to the general fund. OOPS grant assurance problem again Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #23 October 20, 2006 I have a question, d'ya think calling a place the size of Eloy a 'City' may have contributed to the administrators apparent power trip?Do you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #24 October 20, 2006 QuoteI have a question, d'ya think calling a place the size of Eloy a 'City' may have contributed to the administrators apparent power trip Well think about this. Eloy actually is one of the largest "cities" by land mass. This means that the City manager makes a hefty income. Some say even more than the Governor, but I havent' researched that. Another question...if the airport was operating in a deficit, then how could the city manager possibly justify paying $72k a year for an airport manager? Umm what exactly is there to manage at the airport? The City manager hired the individual using "discretionary" funds. The city council was unaware of this hire and when the question was brought before the council, the individual was summarily dismissed. So where did those funds come from? All income generated on the airport has to go back into the airport per the grant assurance agreement. I do not see any improvements. There are items in need of repair that the city is neglecting to take care of. So here is another little tid-bit for you. The city called me to inform me that they were closing the runway to do maintenance. I inquired as to what kind of maintenance. WEED pulling. I was then told that they had filed a NOTAM informing us that the runway was to be closed and we didnt comply. I offered that we would be happy to use the taxiway while they were "pulling weeds" and switch to the runway when they moved to the other side. I was told NO.(remember that we operated off the taxiway when the new runway was being built so why not?) I was also told that if we did not comply, they would contact the FAA. Umm EXCUSE me? I then informed the city that they had no authority to close the runway. Only the FAA can do that. Only the FAA has the say over safety on a federally funded airport, and that they were once again in viliolation of the assurance program. Ummm they haven't read the assurance! The runway remained open. Skydive Arizona is not a bully, nor unreasonable. We offered viable solutions to current issues and were more than willing to work with the City of Eloy. The mayor of the city remarked that it is his airport. I beg to differ. They accepted federal and state money for this airport and it belongs to the taxpayers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,254 #25 October 20, 2006 QuoteQuoteI have a question, d'ya think calling a place the size of Eloy a 'City' may have contributed to the administrators apparent power trip Well think about this. Eloy actually is one of the largest "cities" by land mass. This means that the City manager makes a hefty income. Some say even more than the Governor, but I haven't researched that. Ok, I just googled it - how can 11,000 people possibly sprawl over 72sq miles! Thats two and a half football pitches for every single person living there! Anyway, back to you scheduled programming, I'm happy to hear you so confident of SkydiveAz's chances of sticking it to the man Good luck to everyone over thereDo you want to have an ideagasm? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
