JohnMitchell 14 #26 June 4, 2006 Quote that said, I just looked in the phone book, can't find a phone number for the tower in Ogden. My point? The guy in the tower doesn't care much more about noise than the pilot does, and the guy in the tower isn't answering phones about noise. That's what the FAA is for, among many other things. Small airports that don't support more than one DZ sure are nice. Yes, the pilots have to self-manage, but at the same time, they also are managed by a controlled system, and usually do quite well. In Tooele for instance, the DZ has priority because they're commercial Ogden tower 801-625-5569. People with a noise beef about an airport have it on speed dial, trust me. And guess what? The guy in the tower is the FAA, and he's answering the phones. I've phoned a control facility or two in my time. The ATC system belongs to the taxpayer. They have to listen to you bitch. No user at a public airport has priority over the other users, unless they are an emergency, a Lifeguard flight, presidential aircraft, or DOD on a special priority mission. Other than that, it's first come, first served, whether private, commercial, or military. Yes, pilots do make room for each other. Any private pilot can explain the "rules of the road" to you. The tower helps to expedite traffic at a busy airport by maintaining an efficient flow. Do you think Chicago-O'Hare could land those planes better without a control tower? I'm not saying a tower won't cramp Deland's operations form time to time. But now is the time to work with the change, to make sure the DZ's get what they need to flourish in the tower enviroment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #27 June 4, 2006 Quote Small airports that don't support more than one DZ sure are nice. Yes, the pilots have to self-manage, but at the same time, they also are managed by a controlled system, and usually do quite well. In Tooele for instance, the DZ has priority because they're commercial Ogden tower 801-625-5569. People with a noise beef about an airport have it on speed dial, trust me. And guess what? The guy in the tower is the FAA, and he's answering the phones. I've phoned a control facility or two in my time. The ATC system belongs to the taxpayer. They have to listen to you bitch. No user at a public airport has priority over the other users, unless they are an emergency, a Lifeguard flight, presidential aircraft, or DOD on a special priority mission. Other than that, it's first come, first served, whether private, commercial, or military. reply] *you* might have the number, but it's not in the phone book, nor information. That is my point. Second point badly presented, is that the DZ gets priority, simply because they're usually the first one on the taxiway at the smaller airports, being they have the most flights. Adding additional commercial operations to the airport means (to me, anyway) that the flightlines get longer, therefore the wait gets longer, more to manage which adds to the wait. While I might not have nearly as many jumps as most folks, I 'd wager I've an exceptionally good understanding of how international, national, and community airports operate. Back to topic, Deland isn't laid out nor operates anything like Ogden; apologies for taking the thread to a different direction. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,632 #28 June 4, 2006 Quote Do you think Chicago-O'Hare could land those planes better without a control tower? Don't tempt me. I visited O'Hare tower (before 9/11) and it was like a scene from the "Airplane" movie.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dean358 0 #29 June 4, 2006 Perhaps this is an example of what can happen if we don’t “regulate” ourselves. A few years ago I spent a several days jumping at DeLand – saw some really scary shit on the field. I remember one jumper, with his A license and 60 jumps crossing the active runway at approximately 60 feet to land, cutting off a single engine Cessna on final. The Cessna pilot was being a dick and didn’t abort his landing until the very last second, coming within a few hundred feet of the jumper. (I believe the Cessna pilot later filed a complaint with the FBO). In general I thought the airspace around the airport was very crowded for skydiving operations. Add to this some very high profile fatalities, e.g., a highly experienced camera flyer being killed by colliding with an Otter which was being flown by a top notch pilot, and at some point the government / community / or some external organization is going to step in and say “this needs fixing.” Of course I don’t want to see any of you wonderful folks in and around Deland get screwed. And, I don’t know what adding a tower will actually accomplish. But given the high profile tragedies Memorial Day weekend (not at DeLand) I think it’s worth noting that if we don’t fix stuff ourselves someone else may. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #30 June 4, 2006 What it all boils down to is this: "I remember one jumper, with his A license and 60 jumps crossing the active runway at approximately 60 feet to land, cutting off a single engine Cessna on final. The Cessna pilot was being a dick and didn’t abort his landing until the very last second" Why is the Cessna pilot a "Dick", but not the skydiver? Pilots for the most part don't like skydivers. Skydivers don't tend to like regular pilots. Both don't like each other, and only one person is going to win. The winner almost every time will be the pilots. DeLand years ago was a DZ in the almost middle of nowhere. Well, now thats not the case. The traffic has grown more and more over the years and high traffic airports and skydiving do not mix. You can claim that the area will lose money if they build the tower. And they might at first. But the dream of the non-skydiving community is to grow into a suburb of Orlando, not a World Class DZ. If the DZ goes, other business will take over that area. They want a Tower so they can get commuter aircraft to fly there more, what the locals see as a higher class business. In the end, at some point, SDD is going to have to move. I don't like that idea, but the increase in traffic will force it at some point anyway, even if the Tower does not."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dean358 0 #31 June 4, 2006 Quote Why is the Cessna pilot a "Dick", but not the skydiver? Hi Ron, Because unless the Cessna pilot wasn't looking out his window on final, he had to have seen the skydiver right in his path. I got the sense that the Cessna pilot intentionally chose not to avoid the skydiver until the last possible moment, perhaps as an “I’ve had enough of this, I’ll teach those stupid skydivers a lesson” kinda thing. I’ve been a pilot much longer than I’ve been a skydiver and I have to agree with you about pilots not liking us skydivers. All the more reason for all to work together on issues like traffic and safety. Cheers, Dean Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #32 June 4, 2006 QuoteBecause unless the Cessna pilot wasn't looking out his window on final, he had to have seen the skydiver right in his path. What if the pilot was also a new pilot? Why does the pilot have to be the ass? I mean, its not like the student jumper could not see the STATIONARY runway that he was crossing. And its not like the student was told not to cross it. I don't tend to blame the new skydiver for making a mistake and being somewhere he should not have been. I also don't automaticly blame the pilot for not seeing a skydiver when he is where is should not be. You are a pilot, so when you are landing you look around right? Did you have that ability to look around while on final when you had 50 hours? 100 hours? Why is it not possible that the pilot was so busy looking at the runway that he didn't see the skydiver? Ya know, just like the skydiver didn't see the runway or the plane. QuoteI’ve been a pilot much longer than I’ve been a skydiver and I have to agree with you about pilots not liking us skydivers. All the more reason for all to work together on issues like traffic and safety. I agree. But here is the thing. The pilots have the upper hand. They have to want to work with us. We have not given them the reason to want to work with us. And by snipping at the pilots that make mistakes will not make them want to play nice....Your story had only one mistake made, and that was the skydivers fault. But you blamed the pilot?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites TonyJ 0 #33 June 5, 2006 they must be giving them away, sebastian city council just voted, or laughed at the tower project....tony Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnMitchell 14 #34 June 5, 2006 Quote *you* might have the number, but it's not in the phone book, nor information. Second point badly presented, is that the DZ gets priority, simply because they're usually the first one on the taxiway at the smaller airports, being they have the most flights. Adding additional commercial operations to the airport means (to me, anyway) that the flightlines get longer, therefore the wait gets longer, more to manage which adds to the wait. I don't have an Ogden phone book. I googled Ogden Muni, got the # for Cedar City FSS and called them for the tower's number. 2nd point, DZ's do not have priority at any airport. It's "first come, first served", just like Burger King. Yes, as traffic increases, so do delays, as any plane has to wait its turn. It's not the tower causing the delays, but the volume of traffic. You might as well rail against growth. That's the root of the problem. I still say jump operations and tower controlled airports are not mutually exclusive. I've known several tower controllers that have worked with turbine jump aircraft on an ongoing basis. That's a public airport the DZ enjoys using. If they want exclusive use, they need to go build a private strip on their own land. The delays they may experience are the price you pay for jumping so close to the population centers. Being close in has its own economic advantage, possibly well worth an increase in operating costs. I understand everyone's emotions in this matter. My favorite DZ just had to move an hour away from my home, when it used to be 15 minutes away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JerryBaumchen 1,049 #35 June 5, 2006 When I first visited DeLand 15 yrs ago it was a sleepy little burg in the middle of nowhere. I was there 4 months ago & as I drove around I noticed a lot of construction taking place; both commercial & residential. That noise of construction is music to the ears of the City Council and the Swan Song to the skydivers. As a jumping buddy said back in the 60's, 'Progress is a dirty word.' Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #36 June 5, 2006 QuoteARticle says $40 to $50 million in economic impact from the skydiving industry . I think someone might be exaggerating a bit. See attachment.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kimemerson 7 #37 June 5, 2006 QuoteQuoteARticle says $40 to $50 million in economic impact from the skydiving industry . I think someone might be exaggerating a bit. See attachment. I think your attachment shows only the sales of parachutes. DeLand's "skydiving Industry" consists of more than just the canopies. There are three container manufacturers in DeLand for starters. And I don't know if the $40-%50 mil includes hotels, motels and restaurants that all directly benefit from the industry. What makes up DeLand's "skydiving industry" is very broad and inclusive. Still, your example shows $80 mil combined military & civilian sales. That's not too shabby and far from an exaggeration. Is that DeLand's sales alone? Whose sales are we talking about? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites slug 1 #38 June 5, 2006 There's another way to measure the economic impact. The loss of 450 parachute industry/DZ related jobs would be a big hit on the local exonomy for a lot of small towns. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 2fat2fly 0 #39 June 5, 2006 Well, if it goes up, maybe we can get Psycho Bob to transfer to the tower and help out.I am not the man. But the man knows my name...and he's worried Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #40 June 5, 2006 Why do I have the feeling that there are a couple of other "unspoken" issues revolving around this?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites arlo 0 #41 June 5, 2006 because you're smart that way, paul. as an aside, i've listed some of the skydiving businesses located here in deland: skydive deland the perfect spot (restaurant/bar at the dz) PD RWS jumpshack mirage alti-2 merlin suits ouragan suits the skydiving outlet -deland (TSO-D) National Skydiving League Headquarters (NSL...4-way stuff) Skysystems (oxygn helmets, etc) CPS world (military stuff) Skydive U headquarters Vigil wes rich - custom camera helmets i'm sure there are a few more that i just can't think of right now. also, teams fly in from around the world to train here. when teams are training, loads are premanifested for the entire day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites normiss 622 #42 June 6, 2006 maybe this is what they're giving away [/url]http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/local/14741940.htm?source=rss&channel=miamiherald_local[url] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MikeForsythe 0 #43 June 6, 2006 Well, it is over, the city commission voted 5-0 for the tower.Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Cloudi 0 #44 June 6, 2006 Glad I left early (11:00 PM). It was pretty obvious that's where it was going... All of the speakers did a great job, too bad the commissioners weren't listening. Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites quade 3 #45 June 6, 2006 It will be interesting to see how folks adapt or perish. My guess is that nobody is just going to give up; that most will adapt. I seriously doubt it's "the end".quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites klingeme 0 #46 June 6, 2006 I'm just wondering if, come the next election, the skydiving industry can show how big we are in town and vote the mayor and his cronies out of office. Mark Klingelhoefer edited for spellcheck (it's early) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gjhdiver 0 #47 June 6, 2006 QuoteI'm just wondering if, come the next election, the skydiving industry can show how big we are in town and vote the mayor and his cronies out of office. Mark Klingelhoefer edited for spellcheck (it's early) It's a done deal. There's going to be a tower there no matter what it seems. I have done a lot of jumps at a DZ that had a control tower. I even did student jumps there on a round system. The airport was very busy, with several commercial airlines, three flight schools and lots of general avaiation. I can't remember ever being held on a load, even during the busiest times. The drop zone itself was one of the busiest in the country, and it sat under one of the major international air routes crossing the UK. Another drop zone in the south of the UK had no control tower, yet was continually denied altitude by Gatwick control. This never happened at the controlled DZ, because the tower would hand off correctly to the higher altitudes and route traffic away from us. Just because DZ operators don't want to have a tower, and no-one's done it yet here, doesn't mean that it can't be done. It just requires them to work within the system that they are presented with. It's not ideal, but it's better than the alternative. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites StreetScooby 5 #48 June 6, 2006 The Ranch is under Stewart's ATC. I don't think there's any problem getting along with them. We just have to keep our eyes out for jets We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PhreeZone 15 #49 June 6, 2006 Being under ATC is differenet then operating out of an airport with an active tower. Most DZ's are in some ATC control, just very few have an active tower to control their taxing also.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites tombuch 0 #50 June 6, 2006 QuoteThe Ranch is under Stewart's ATC. I don't think there's any problem getting along with them. We just have to keep our eyes out for jets Very not true. Stewert is class D, and extends only five miles. The Ranch is 10 miles north and well outside of the Class D. We are instead in class "E" airspace with control provided only under IFR conditions, and then by approach controllers, not the tower. It's also important to know that we are directly below a federal airway, and most of our traffic is NOT related to Stewart. For more detail see article 8 called "AIRSPACE" on The Ranch web site at http://theblueskyranch.com/STA.php. It includes sectional and enroute chart segments to give you an idea of where the class D ends. As for getting along with ATC...yup, we do have a good relationship with the SWF tower, as well as New York Approach and Boston Center, the two control agencies that we do deal with on every jump. On the negative side...At one point I asked to have The Ranch mentioned on the SWF ATIS broadcast for approaching pilots. The Tower Chief was supportive, but I think her efforts were thawrted by the controllers union which fell back on an old argument they used when there was a drop zone at Orange County airport. The argument is that controllers only handle traffic within the Class D, and providing notice of activity outside that airspace might obligate them to provide separation services beyond their current area. It's enough of a concern to keep a mention off the recorded ATIS. So, they fly blind to our drop zone. .Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 4 Next Page 2 of 4 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. 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Ron 7 #32 June 4, 2006 QuoteBecause unless the Cessna pilot wasn't looking out his window on final, he had to have seen the skydiver right in his path. What if the pilot was also a new pilot? Why does the pilot have to be the ass? I mean, its not like the student jumper could not see the STATIONARY runway that he was crossing. And its not like the student was told not to cross it. I don't tend to blame the new skydiver for making a mistake and being somewhere he should not have been. I also don't automaticly blame the pilot for not seeing a skydiver when he is where is should not be. You are a pilot, so when you are landing you look around right? Did you have that ability to look around while on final when you had 50 hours? 100 hours? Why is it not possible that the pilot was so busy looking at the runway that he didn't see the skydiver? Ya know, just like the skydiver didn't see the runway or the plane. QuoteI’ve been a pilot much longer than I’ve been a skydiver and I have to agree with you about pilots not liking us skydivers. All the more reason for all to work together on issues like traffic and safety. I agree. But here is the thing. The pilots have the upper hand. They have to want to work with us. We have not given them the reason to want to work with us. And by snipping at the pilots that make mistakes will not make them want to play nice....Your story had only one mistake made, and that was the skydivers fault. But you blamed the pilot?"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TonyJ 0 #33 June 5, 2006 they must be giving them away, sebastian city council just voted, or laughed at the tower project....tony Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #34 June 5, 2006 Quote *you* might have the number, but it's not in the phone book, nor information. Second point badly presented, is that the DZ gets priority, simply because they're usually the first one on the taxiway at the smaller airports, being they have the most flights. Adding additional commercial operations to the airport means (to me, anyway) that the flightlines get longer, therefore the wait gets longer, more to manage which adds to the wait. I don't have an Ogden phone book. I googled Ogden Muni, got the # for Cedar City FSS and called them for the tower's number. 2nd point, DZ's do not have priority at any airport. It's "first come, first served", just like Burger King. Yes, as traffic increases, so do delays, as any plane has to wait its turn. It's not the tower causing the delays, but the volume of traffic. You might as well rail against growth. That's the root of the problem. I still say jump operations and tower controlled airports are not mutually exclusive. I've known several tower controllers that have worked with turbine jump aircraft on an ongoing basis. That's a public airport the DZ enjoys using. If they want exclusive use, they need to go build a private strip on their own land. The delays they may experience are the price you pay for jumping so close to the population centers. Being close in has its own economic advantage, possibly well worth an increase in operating costs. I understand everyone's emotions in this matter. My favorite DZ just had to move an hour away from my home, when it used to be 15 minutes away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,049 #35 June 5, 2006 When I first visited DeLand 15 yrs ago it was a sleepy little burg in the middle of nowhere. I was there 4 months ago & as I drove around I noticed a lot of construction taking place; both commercial & residential. That noise of construction is music to the ears of the City Council and the Swan Song to the skydivers. As a jumping buddy said back in the 60's, 'Progress is a dirty word.' Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #36 June 5, 2006 QuoteARticle says $40 to $50 million in economic impact from the skydiving industry . I think someone might be exaggerating a bit. See attachment.My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kimemerson 7 #37 June 5, 2006 QuoteQuoteARticle says $40 to $50 million in economic impact from the skydiving industry . I think someone might be exaggerating a bit. See attachment. I think your attachment shows only the sales of parachutes. DeLand's "skydiving Industry" consists of more than just the canopies. There are three container manufacturers in DeLand for starters. And I don't know if the $40-%50 mil includes hotels, motels and restaurants that all directly benefit from the industry. What makes up DeLand's "skydiving industry" is very broad and inclusive. Still, your example shows $80 mil combined military & civilian sales. That's not too shabby and far from an exaggeration. Is that DeLand's sales alone? Whose sales are we talking about? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
slug 1 #38 June 5, 2006 There's another way to measure the economic impact. The loss of 450 parachute industry/DZ related jobs would be a big hit on the local exonomy for a lot of small towns. R.I.P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2fat2fly 0 #39 June 5, 2006 Well, if it goes up, maybe we can get Psycho Bob to transfer to the tower and help out.I am not the man. But the man knows my name...and he's worried Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #40 June 5, 2006 Why do I have the feeling that there are a couple of other "unspoken" issues revolving around this?quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arlo 0 #41 June 5, 2006 because you're smart that way, paul. as an aside, i've listed some of the skydiving businesses located here in deland: skydive deland the perfect spot (restaurant/bar at the dz) PD RWS jumpshack mirage alti-2 merlin suits ouragan suits the skydiving outlet -deland (TSO-D) National Skydiving League Headquarters (NSL...4-way stuff) Skysystems (oxygn helmets, etc) CPS world (military stuff) Skydive U headquarters Vigil wes rich - custom camera helmets i'm sure there are a few more that i just can't think of right now. also, teams fly in from around the world to train here. when teams are training, loads are premanifested for the entire day. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #42 June 6, 2006 maybe this is what they're giving away [/url]http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/local/14741940.htm?source=rss&channel=miamiherald_local[url] Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MikeForsythe 0 #43 June 6, 2006 Well, it is over, the city commission voted 5-0 for the tower.Time and pressure will always show you who a person really is! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cloudi 0 #44 June 6, 2006 Glad I left early (11:00 PM). It was pretty obvious that's where it was going... All of the speakers did a great job, too bad the commissioners weren't listening. Kim Watch as I attempt, with no slight of hand, to apply logic and reason. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #45 June 6, 2006 It will be interesting to see how folks adapt or perish. My guess is that nobody is just going to give up; that most will adapt. I seriously doubt it's "the end".quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
klingeme 0 #46 June 6, 2006 I'm just wondering if, come the next election, the skydiving industry can show how big we are in town and vote the mayor and his cronies out of office. Mark Klingelhoefer edited for spellcheck (it's early) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gjhdiver 0 #47 June 6, 2006 QuoteI'm just wondering if, come the next election, the skydiving industry can show how big we are in town and vote the mayor and his cronies out of office. Mark Klingelhoefer edited for spellcheck (it's early) It's a done deal. There's going to be a tower there no matter what it seems. I have done a lot of jumps at a DZ that had a control tower. I even did student jumps there on a round system. The airport was very busy, with several commercial airlines, three flight schools and lots of general avaiation. I can't remember ever being held on a load, even during the busiest times. The drop zone itself was one of the busiest in the country, and it sat under one of the major international air routes crossing the UK. Another drop zone in the south of the UK had no control tower, yet was continually denied altitude by Gatwick control. This never happened at the controlled DZ, because the tower would hand off correctly to the higher altitudes and route traffic away from us. Just because DZ operators don't want to have a tower, and no-one's done it yet here, doesn't mean that it can't be done. It just requires them to work within the system that they are presented with. It's not ideal, but it's better than the alternative. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
StreetScooby 5 #48 June 6, 2006 The Ranch is under Stewart's ATC. I don't think there's any problem getting along with them. We just have to keep our eyes out for jets We are all engines of karma Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #49 June 6, 2006 Being under ATC is differenet then operating out of an airport with an active tower. Most DZ's are in some ATC control, just very few have an active tower to control their taxing also.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tombuch 0 #50 June 6, 2006 QuoteThe Ranch is under Stewart's ATC. I don't think there's any problem getting along with them. We just have to keep our eyes out for jets Very not true. Stewert is class D, and extends only five miles. The Ranch is 10 miles north and well outside of the Class D. We are instead in class "E" airspace with control provided only under IFR conditions, and then by approach controllers, not the tower. It's also important to know that we are directly below a federal airway, and most of our traffic is NOT related to Stewart. For more detail see article 8 called "AIRSPACE" on The Ranch web site at http://theblueskyranch.com/STA.php. It includes sectional and enroute chart segments to give you an idea of where the class D ends. As for getting along with ATC...yup, we do have a good relationship with the SWF tower, as well as New York Approach and Boston Center, the two control agencies that we do deal with on every jump. On the negative side...At one point I asked to have The Ranch mentioned on the SWF ATIS broadcast for approaching pilots. The Tower Chief was supportive, but I think her efforts were thawrted by the controllers union which fell back on an old argument they used when there was a drop zone at Orange County airport. The argument is that controllers only handle traffic within the Class D, and providing notice of activity outside that airspace might obligate them to provide separation services beyond their current area. It's enough of a concern to keep a mention off the recorded ATIS. So, they fly blind to our drop zone. .Tom Buchanan Instructor Emeritus Comm Pilot MSEL,G Author: JUMP! Skydiving Made Fun and Easy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
