quade 3 #1 June 13, 2007 http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/11/222688.aspx Quote Space divers wanted Posted: Monday, June 11, 2007 8:43 PM by Alan Boyle Space activist Rick Tumlinson's latest venture aims to blend the thrills of spaceflight with the chills of skydiving, to come up with what he sees as the ultimate extreme sport: space diving. But as he revealed more details about his latest fiendish plan today, the conversation focused on the safety of it all as well as the thrill of it all. Is it really possible to blend safety and danger, particularly when you're talking about a scheme that calls for jumping off a rocket ship with a parachute at an altitude of more than 120,000 feet? "The parachute is both a safety system and a sporting device," Tumlinson said. And besides, it'll make for a great TV stunt. That's the strange brew of Hollywood hype and higher purpose behind Space Diving, a project that goes hand in hand with Tumlinson's other business venture, Orbital Outfitters. Tumlinson said that the space diving idea actually came to him first, but that he realized he'd have to create another venture to make the pressure suits for the dives. Thus, Orbital Outfitters was born first, and the company is aiming to deliver its first prototype spacesuits to California-based XCOR Aerospace later this year. As for Space Diving, Tumlinson freely admits that venture isn't quite ready for prime time. Nevertheless, news about the venture has been leaking out over the past few months, and Tumlinson talked about it openly at the International Space Development Conference in Dallas last month. Now the concept is featured in July's issue of Popular Science magazine, and Tumlinson is showing even more of his hand. Here are the some of the cards he's revealing: Members of the Space Diving development team include former NASA flight surgeon Jon Clark, Bill Stone of Stone Aerospace and political space consultant Jim Muncy. Tumlinson said he's already had "informal communication" with the Federal Aviation Administration about the regulatory issues. Tumlinson envisions future space divers taking the leap from rocket ships being developed by XCOR Aerospace as well as Texas-based Armadillo Aerospace. The diving tests would begin at a relatively low skydiving altitude - say, 5,000 feet - and gradually rise to record-breaking altitudes of 120,000 feet and beyond. "We would like to have the first serious test diving starting at the end of '08, and then work our way up from there," Tumlinson said. The fiendish plan depends in part on securing deals for sponsorships and a reality-TV show - say, in time for February 2009's TV sweeps. "We are very, very eager to find a major television partner," Tumlinson said. He declined to put a price tag on the experience, other than to say that a space dive from 120,000 feet would be "way lower than the cost of suborbital [space] tourism." That altitude is far lower than the internationally accepted 328,000-foot-high boundary of outer space - but you would still be able to see black sky and Earth's curvature, as shown in these JP Aerospace photos taken from a similar altitude. One of Tumlinson's goals is to present a jump that would break the 102,800-foot skydiving record set by Air Force Col. Joe Kittinger back in 1960. "We want to clearly break the current record, but that's the only record. ... After that, we're not worried about records any more," Tumlinson said. "We're not doing this for personal grandeur, not doing it for glory so much as we are doing it to open space and carry on where Colonel Kittinger left off," he continued. "Kittinger did this in the name of saving lives, and that's what we're doing. Our goal is to touch our toe to the water at lower altitudes, and work our way higher and higher. The eventual goal is to bring people safely back from orbit." From orbit? From, say, 220 miles up? Eventually, Tumlinson foresees a day when private-sector space fliers can go "orbital surfing," or when astronauts can ride inflatable, aerodynamic pods back down to Earth in the event of an orbital emergency. That's where the safety angle comes to the fore. "The team that we're putting together with Space Diving is as safety-conscious as you can get," Tumlinson said. "Jon Clark's wife died in the Columbia tragedy. This is a man who lives and breathes safety. This is not a fly-by-night operation by any means. ... We are going to leave a legacy of safety behind that is just going to be amazing." If Tumlinson and his partners build such a system - or, for that matter, a space-diving platform that would shoot 120,000 feet up - would skydivers in search of the ultimate thrill take that ride? Mike Truffer, publisher of Skydiving magazine, is doubtful. "There are significant technological and physiological challenges - not to be a wet blanket," Truffer told me today. He pointed out that two accomplished parachutists, Michel ("Super-Jump") Fournier and Cheryl ("StratoQuest") Stearns, have been trying to break Kittinger's record for years. "It's not so much the technology to get that high, because we have done that with helium balloons pretty routinely," Truffer said, "But how does a person maintain control in that environment, and what type of equipment would he need to sustain his life?" That's not to say the feat is impossible. "It's doable, if you have several million dollars to make it happen. ... But I don't think that's within the grasp of the typical weekend jumper," said Truffer, who calculates that he has made 7,826 jumps to date. Tumlinson said he's confident his team can put together the life support system, the launch system and the training system that can get the job done. Not just once, but over and over again. Will it be the ultimate leap, or the ultimate leap of faith? Feel free to weigh in with your comments below. quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #2 June 13, 2007 You mean -this- skydive? ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gofast_ER 0 #3 June 13, 2007 now that's a haloI may not agree with what you have to say but i'll defend to the death your right to say it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Floats18 0 #4 June 13, 2007 SIGN ME UP... Spaceflight is on my list of dreams and I can't think of a better way to do it! I suck at staying in airplanes, might as well suck at staying in rockets as well --- and give them wings so they may fly free forever DiverDriver in Training Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
squirrel 0 #5 June 13, 2007 all that altitude wasted on a RW jump. ________________________________ Where is Darwin when you need him? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
millertimeunc 0 #6 June 13, 2007 I bet that jump would be a bitch to spot... And I'm always up for a full altitude hop 'n' pop, but that's a little too much.The best things in life are dangerous. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
simplyputsi 0 #7 June 13, 2007 Yeah if someone is looking for a volunteer I'll put on your spacesuit and a rig and toss myself out of a rocket. Why the hell not!!! Skymama's #2 stalker - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ltdiver 3 #8 June 13, 2007 Quote all that altitude wasted on a RW jump. Forgot to add: Photo compliments of the Wagner boys. It came from Omniskore's home page -years- ago. ltdiver Don't tell me the sky's the limit when there are footprints on the moon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 135 #10 June 13, 2007 do they have separate jumpruns for swoopers?scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
quade 3 #11 June 13, 2007 Quotedo they have separate jumpruns for swoopers? Just give it a good 7 or 8 seconds exit separation. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be an issue.quade - The World's Most Boring Skydiver Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
simplyputsi 0 #12 June 13, 2007 QuoteQuotedo they have separate jumpruns for swoopers? Just give it a good 7 or 8 seconds exit separation. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be an issue. Yeah but how fast is jump run gonna be?? I don't want my spot getting hosed!!!Skymama's #2 stalker - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Floats18 0 #13 June 13, 2007 Just aim for the blue parts... they probably won't hurt you as much as the green/brown/pointy stuff Remember to track up jumprun or the re-entry heat might singe your eyebrows--- and give them wings so they may fly free forever DiverDriver in Training Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BillyVance 34 #14 June 13, 2007 Quote Quote Quote do they have separate jumpruns for swoopers? Just give it a good 7 or 8 seconds exit separation. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be an issue. Yeah but how fast is jump run gonna be?? I don't want my spot getting hosed!!! 17,500 mph... But don't worry, if you miss the tiny window, another one will open on the next pass 30+ minutes later... "Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kkeenan 13 #15 June 13, 2007 Quote Just give it a good 7 or 8 seconds exit separation. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be an issue. At orbital speed of 17,500 mph, 8 sec. = 38.8 miles. That should be adequate seperation. Kevin K. Kennedy Space Ctr._____________________________________ Dude, you are so awesome... Can I be on your ash jump ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
simplyputsi 0 #16 June 13, 2007 Quote Quote Just give it a good 7 or 8 seconds exit separation. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be an issue. At orbital speed of 17,500 mph, 8 sec. = 38.8 miles. That should be adequate seperation. Kevin K. Kennedy Space Ctr. Why 8 seconds then, can't we bump it down a bit, say 1 second delays. And ummm from the story I gathered they were going to slow down somehow at the exit point. Maybe at the apex of a climb, flatten out, exit, then back down the jumpship goes. Or they could just use balloons.Skymama's #2 stalker - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JasonQ 0 #17 June 13, 2007 With the light atmosphere up there, the hill could be a full orbit. *That* would be cool! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #18 June 13, 2007 >Why 8 seconds then, can't we bump it down a bit, say 1 second delays. The only exit separation you'll get is how hard you push off. If you leave 8 seconds between exits, and just "let go", you will stay right where you were - and right next to the other guy. >And ummm from the story I gathered they were going to slow down >somehow at the exit point. They're not reaching orbital velocity. They're just flying ballistically and releasing someone. Indeed, one problem will be getting away from the vehicle after exit so you don't come near it when you re-enter. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
vyle 0 #19 June 13, 2007 forget about space diving, not dangerous enough... Let's blackhole dive instead http://vyle-art.com/noshow/blackhole%20copy%20copy.jpg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickDG 23 #20 June 14, 2007 Someone may accomplish this someday but doesn't this come up every few years? There was a group back in the 80s called "Ten Miles High" and they even had some of the spacesuits needed, but I think they eventually had problems raising enough money. Rodd Millner's jump from 40 km/25 miles in Australia was put off when the backers who were instrumental in raising the ten million dollars needed were killed aboard one of the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center Towers. Cheryl Stearns is still trying to get enough funding for her attempt. http://stratoquest.com/ Michel-Andre Fournier's is also seeking funding for his attempt at 40 km/25 miles. http://www.legrandsaut.org/ It's the same for all: No Bucks, no Buck Rogers . . . Also many talk of breaking Joe Kittenger's freefall record when his jump from 102,000-ft wasn't really a freefall. It was drogue fall using what's called a ballute. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ballute (It was still ballsy though). I think the actual "freefall" altitude record is held by a Russian jumper. NickD BASE 194 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SansSuit 1 #21 June 14, 2007 Quote At orbital speed of 17,500 mph, 8 sec. = 38.8 miles. That should be adequate seperation. Now is that ground spped or air speed? Peace, -Dawson. http://www.SansSuit.com The Society for the Advancement of Naked Skydiving Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,384 #22 June 23, 2007 Just picked up a copy of July issue of Popular Science. The cover story is about Orbital Outfitters: http://www.popsci.com/popsci/currentissue/index.html"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
azdiver 0 #23 June 23, 2007 Quotedo they have separate jumpruns for swoopers?swoopers land in peris standard pattern lands in eloylight travels faster than sound, that's why some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
denete 2 #24 June 23, 2007 QuoteJust aim for the blue parts... they probably won't hurt you as much as the green/brown/pointy stuff Thank you for my Saturday morning laugh!SCR #14809 "our attitude is the thing most capable of keeping us safe" (look, grab, look, grab, peel, punch, punch, arch) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AFFI 0 #25 June 27, 2007 QuoteQuotedo they have separate jumpruns for swoopers? Just give it a good 7 or 8 seconds exit separation. I'm pretty sure it wouldn't be an issue. Nono, 45 degrees! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
