wmw999 2,122 #26 November 21, 2004 Quoteespecially since I will not be staying current. I only plan to jump during one or two time periods a year, on my vacations. I don't have a home DZ. Right here is one of the best reasons why a bigger canopy is probably a better idea. If you'll be jumping at different DZs more often, and a little un-current more often, then a bigger canopy will leave a few more brain cells left over for the rest of the jump. So that it can be fun more of the time. A 170 isn't going to be forgiving of big-time stupidity. But it might not smack you as hard for smallish mistakes that you don't even know (or remember) are mistakes. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
towerrat 0 #27 November 21, 2004 Quotealso, have you considered you may not be the best packer, or the most knowledgable. Do another search looking for hard opening with Sabre. ----------------------------------------------------------- he's looking at a Sabre2, not an original Sabre. Totally different canopy. I was at a 1.25 wingload by about 50 jumps. It was a Sabre 170, and I put 300 jumps on it before I downsized again. I consider myself extremely lucky that I wasn't hurt. There is video at skydiving movies.com of a professional swooper taking a student canopy across the field. My guess is that at your numbers, you are lucky to stand up a landing. I would suggest that with your numbers and intended currency level you fly something a little more forgiving. Nothing personal, but it sounds to me like your instructor isn't looking at the whole picture. All that said, you may be just fine under a 150, I was. I manged to survive, and you could, too. The fact is that for the first 100 or so jumps or so after I got my Sabre all I was doing was surviving, as it's hard to learn on something you are scared of. Get a 170 and learn to fly it. Not only will you be safer, you will learn at a much faster rate. The other thing is that 170's are a dime a dozen. It is the most popular canopy size, so that makes it easy to find one now, and easy to get rid of when you decide to downsize.Play stupid games, win stupid prizes! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyhighkiy 0 #28 November 21, 2004 QuoteWell, your instructor will let you jump the 150, when you make thoes 50-60 jumps this season and leave you will have the # (79-89) to probably jump elsewhere, but I cant speak for everyone what dropzone "elsewhere" would let him jump a 1.2 w/l at 79-89 jumps????? BE THE BUDDHA! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,400 #29 November 21, 2004 >no dropzone that is USPA certified . . . Most drop zones will not check your main size against your weight and experience. If you own your own rig, and it's in-date and legal, and you're licensed, then the presumption is that you know what you're doing. Heck. plents of SDC people are jumping Stiletto 135's after 30 jumps because they get intensive training in HP canopy flight. This is another reason I think the wingloading vs license level proposal might help. It would give DZO's an additional tool to use to determine if someone was jumping at a safe loading. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Frenchy68 0 #30 November 21, 2004 In my extremely limited experience, one point that I think gets overlooked very often when newbies like me think about downsizing is the "when things go wrong" factor. It's easy to feel confident standing up 90% of the landings in a familiar landing zone. But what happens if youhave to land in unfamiliar territory? In a parking lot, etc... I currently jump a Pilot loaded at 1.15. I've had 8 jumps a couple of months ago (before buying the Pilot) on a Turbo 155 (loaded at 1.25). Although i did stand up my landings, I had to run a 100 meter dash on each landing. I'm definitely glad I didn't have to land it in an unfamiliar, crowded area, or a tight clearing in a forest. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kelpdiver 2 #31 November 22, 2004 Jeff, does this instructor have a Sabre2 150 sitting around that he's dying to sell? Or is his motivation to save you an eventual canopy swap? Due to my weight (215) and available rental sizes, I strayed as high as 1.2ish (adjusted up slightly for altitude at Perris/Elsinore) and a spectre 210 with the collapsed PC is definitely a bit hot. I was sliding in a lot, and in one case touched down going 90 degrees to the right. Helmet did its job. So these were just bumps and scrapes, but certainly had potential to be worse. But stepping back just a tad to 1.1 seems quite different, also got some training in. People here often say that 1.x on a 150 is quite different then on a 200 because of the shorter lines. Given you're a bit less current, can you at least borrow/rent a 170 for a bit first, and if that goes well, start using the 150? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites MWGemini 0 #32 November 22, 2004 I just purchased my first rig, with a Spectre 170 in it, at 36 jumps. I've had a fair amount of canopy coaching from my instructors, and I've taken a Scott Miller canopy control course. My body weight is 125, and I only load the 170 at .82 and .94 when wearing 15lbs of weight. I'm comfortable under the 170, but was initially skeptical about downsizing from the 190s I had been flying, since I was still flaring a little too high and too fast, causing a high plane out. Even with my relatively low wing loading, the 170 is able to go pretty fast, both in turns, and in straight flight. I would recommend stepping down gradually, getting professional instruction, and making the choice you feel is safest for you in the long term. Especially since you say you will be jumping seasonally, you really don't want to be picking up a highly loaded canopy with low jump numbers when you have not jumped in several months. With a larger canopy, you will able to learn at your own pace, and be safer doing it. Once you have the skill and technique down, you'll be able to induce speed using riser inputs, or by wearing weights to increase your wing loading. Another thing to think of: what is you goal with canopy piloting? Do you want to swoop? Do you want to get perfect accuracy and do demo jumps one day? Do you want to BASE jump? I personally want to go the latter route, getting a PRO rating to do demos, and develop excellent accuracy skills in the event I pick up BASE jumping. Make your decision based on your skill level and the disciplines of flight that you intend to pursue. Above all, be safe. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jeffcadieux 0 #33 November 22, 2004 He does not have one waiting to be sold, he encourages me to buy new. He does get a kickback from PD if I buy a Sabre II. However, that does not explain why he would recommend a 150 instead of a 170, which would still give him the kickback. I think he's just really confident in his skills as a canopy coach. I also want to point out that this conversation is not quite as one-sided as it seems. I've received several private messages that support the choice of a 150, but those people are afraid to post such an opinion on this forum, for fear of being chewed-out. Another option that has been suggested to me is to buy a Triathlon 160. The wingloading would be 1.1, a nice compromise between the two camps,and my understanding is that the fully square shape would make it more forgiving than a semi-elliptical. Anybody want to chime in on that idea? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skyhighkiy 0 #34 November 22, 2004 triathlon=7 cell rather than the sabre's 9 You're going to get less performance out of a 7 cell, although I know a couple people that have them that enjoy them. you can't go wrong w/ a 170...actually...what might solve all this...what's the smallest canopy you've jumped thus far? I made the decision to go w/ 170 after comming in downwind on a turbo0Z 165 if you haven't jumped a 170 and 150 yet...there's really no way to tell. edit to add: IT seems you're really eager to get under something smaller than a 170 really soon. and although there's chances you'd be fine going smaller, there's also chances you won't be. choose wisely. YOu're always fine under a smaller canopy until you're not. you will definately get more surf out of a 150 than a 170. if you don't have the skill todo high performance landings, and you'll definately have more speed when you nail the ground on one of your lesson-learning dives that are inevitable in the learning stages. BE THE BUDDHA! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites phoenixlpr 0 #35 November 22, 2004 QuoteYou're going to get less performance out of a 7 cell, although I know a couple people that have them that enjoy them. Based on what? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ianmdrennan 2 #36 November 22, 2004 QuoteBased on what? Heh, dunno but last I checked my velocity was a 7 cell Guess that means I'd get more performance out of a Sabre2 then Performance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nathaniel 0 #37 November 22, 2004 Quote Another option that has been suggested to me is to buy a Triathlon 160. The wingloading would be 1.1, a nice compromise between the two camps... The Triathlon is a 7-cell, and it flies rather differently from the Sabre-2. Basically it flies down . I've flown them each at the sizes you're considering, and I weigh just a tad less than you. What it sounds like you need to do is decide what you want out of a canopy. Since you're not set on either a rocket or a feather, or something in between, you probably need to jump more & demo canopies until you have a better idea of what you want. It would suck to get stuck with a canopy you don't like anymore after 50 jumps. nathanielMy advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites kallend 1,623 #38 November 22, 2004 Your instructor knows you better than anyone on DZ.com However, you might ask him WHY he thinks you will be OK on this canopy when you haven't jumped one this size before. I hope it isn't because he has a canopy to sell! It can be done safely. I went straight to a WL around 1.3 for my first canopy, but I had finished my student training on a canopy that size (which appears to be a significant difference from your case).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites peregrinerose 0 #39 November 22, 2004 I'm a 15 jump wonder, so don't take my word for crap, okay? The way I see it, there's no reason to rush to a smaller canopy, I have lots of life left in me, many years ahead, so plenty of time to go to a smaller canopy size if I want to. There's so much to flying a canopy, and as I'm reading Brian Germain's book, it was plain scary just how much I didn't know that I didn't know. I jumped my own rig for the first time yesterday and was delighted with it. The smallest I've jumped yet, but forgiving of the fact that I didn't flare completely yesterday and am still learning to fly it. I'm 165 out the door and bought a sabre 170. It was a blast to fly and it will be a LOT of jumps before I'm ready to move to something new. Jen Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Ron 7 #40 November 22, 2004 QuoteI'm becoming convinced that this isn't such a good idea for me, especially since I will not be staying current. I only plan to jump during one or two time periods a year, on my vacations. I don't have a home DZ. That right there tells me the 150 is a bad idea. If you were going to be jumping all the time, maybe you could pull it off. But if you don't plan on staying current it si a bad idea. If I were only jumping two times a year, I'd get a 190 and play it safe."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BenediktDE 2 #41 November 23, 2004 I now have 45 jumps and jump a wingload of nearly 1.2. I think I can only handle it because it is a canopy with a very very conservative shape (PD210). I used to jump a chayenne 210 on my 13th jump. Flared a bit to late and now still have problems with my wrist after now 3 months. I tried the same canopy 30 jumps later and enjoyed it very much. Maybe do some more 20 jumps or so on rented gear, borrow and jump a 150 and a 170, then decide. Just my 2 Cents as I am also new to the sport.For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites jeffcadieux 0 #42 November 23, 2004 Thanks again to all who have written so far, and to those who have messaged me as well. I'm nearing a decision here. It seems there is absolutely no reason for me to go to a 150 right away. I'm relatively young, and have more money (I'm not hitched yet ) than wrists, ankles, spines and lives. If I ever do want to get married, I also might need my face to be intact. I can go to my DZ, rent a 190 or so for a few jumps, then pull out my very own 170 canopy. When/if I get tired of that, I can sell it, right? I'll take a loss, but no big deal. Money is not my driving factor. While I am inclined to think I can handle anything (invincibility complex) I agree that it's not all that smart to push my limits when I have no intention of staying current. It could be a full year before I jump again after this initial training. Again, thanks to all! If you have anything more to add, I'm still open to your thoughts! Jeff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BenediktDE 2 #43 November 23, 2004 QuoteI'm relatively young, and have more money (I'm not hitched yet ) than wrists, ankles, spines and lives. [...] If you have anything more to add, I'm still open to your thoughts! Only one thing to add: Congratulations and enjoy the air! For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites rhino 0 #44 November 23, 2004 QuoteYou're going to get less performance out of a 7 cell, although I know a couple people that have them that enjoy them. I disagree... That depends on how you define performamce at his skill level. a Triathlon could save his life due to it's slow speed flight characteristics. A Sabre could have the opposite effect. When my kids start jumping they will start on a Triathlon. It is the absolute best canopy to start on. It is solid in turbulence, great in flat turns, can sink in very well and isn't as unstable as a sabre in deep brakes. And if the time comes when one needs to use the 7 cell reserve they will already have experience landing a seven cell. Those of us that have plenty of jumps on them know that the landings are quiet different than a 9 cell. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites phoenixlpr 0 #45 November 23, 2004 Quote I now have 45 jumps and jump a wingload of nearly 1.2. I think I can only handle it because it is a canopy with a very very conservative shape (PD210). I would not call myself conservative if I would load my main over the recommended max. weight. Like 210 lbs with a PD210(PD9cell)................... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BenediktDE 2 #46 November 23, 2004 QuoteQuote I now have 45 jumps and jump a wingload of nearly 1.2. I think I can only handle it because it is a canopy with a very very conservative shape (PD210). I would not call myself conservative if I would load my main over the recommended max. weight. Like 210 lbs with a PD210(PD9cell). I called the canopie's shape conservative. But you are right, it is over the max. and I would not have done it if I knew it before buying.For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Scrumpot 1 #47 November 23, 2004 If you truly do FLY YOUR CANOPY, and want to (and do) learn how to FLY YOUR CANOPY, you CAN do that every bit as much with a 170 as you can a 150 at this stage. Don't let anybody fool you as to that. If you think you can't, then you simply are NOT FLYING YOUR CANOPY, understand what you are doing or are learning fully, how to fly it right in the 1st place, period. Yup, you can go faster with a 150 than you can with a 170 if you are torque-ing it. The only SIGNIFICANT difference you are truly subject to between them however, is how hard you will hit the ground when you screw up (and you WILL). Think of what your long-term goals are here. Will the 150 NOW really help you accomplish those? What's your fear in going with a 170 instead? -Grantcoitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DancingFlame 0 #48 November 24, 2004 That is a wise decision! At least, you can always increase your w/l by wearing weights. Can't find an easy way to decrease w/l though... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mattabram 0 #49 November 24, 2004 As you will not be staying current,I wouldn't suggest going smaller than a 170,preferably a square canopy,too.Make sure you downsize to this from the 230 with plenty of jumps on canopies inbetween. Remember though,that you can still damage yourself on a large canopy.It's what you do close to the ground that matters. Until you can fly the hell out of the 170 in any weather condition then you don't really need to downsize. Be safe.It's the skydive that counts.The canopy ride is just a bonus(at this stage anyway) ..God gave men 2 brains,but only enough blood to fill one at a time....I can live with that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 2 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. 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skyhighkiy 0 #28 November 21, 2004 QuoteWell, your instructor will let you jump the 150, when you make thoes 50-60 jumps this season and leave you will have the # (79-89) to probably jump elsewhere, but I cant speak for everyone what dropzone "elsewhere" would let him jump a 1.2 w/l at 79-89 jumps????? BE THE BUDDHA! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #29 November 21, 2004 >no dropzone that is USPA certified . . . Most drop zones will not check your main size against your weight and experience. If you own your own rig, and it's in-date and legal, and you're licensed, then the presumption is that you know what you're doing. Heck. plents of SDC people are jumping Stiletto 135's after 30 jumps because they get intensive training in HP canopy flight. This is another reason I think the wingloading vs license level proposal might help. It would give DZO's an additional tool to use to determine if someone was jumping at a safe loading. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Frenchy68 0 #30 November 21, 2004 In my extremely limited experience, one point that I think gets overlooked very often when newbies like me think about downsizing is the "when things go wrong" factor. It's easy to feel confident standing up 90% of the landings in a familiar landing zone. But what happens if youhave to land in unfamiliar territory? In a parking lot, etc... I currently jump a Pilot loaded at 1.15. I've had 8 jumps a couple of months ago (before buying the Pilot) on a Turbo 155 (loaded at 1.25). Although i did stand up my landings, I had to run a 100 meter dash on each landing. I'm definitely glad I didn't have to land it in an unfamiliar, crowded area, or a tight clearing in a forest. "For once you have tasted Absinthe you will walk the earth with your eyes turned towards the gutter, for there you have been and there you will long to return." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #31 November 22, 2004 Jeff, does this instructor have a Sabre2 150 sitting around that he's dying to sell? Or is his motivation to save you an eventual canopy swap? Due to my weight (215) and available rental sizes, I strayed as high as 1.2ish (adjusted up slightly for altitude at Perris/Elsinore) and a spectre 210 with the collapsed PC is definitely a bit hot. I was sliding in a lot, and in one case touched down going 90 degrees to the right. Helmet did its job. So these were just bumps and scrapes, but certainly had potential to be worse. But stepping back just a tad to 1.1 seems quite different, also got some training in. People here often say that 1.x on a 150 is quite different then on a 200 because of the shorter lines. Given you're a bit less current, can you at least borrow/rent a 170 for a bit first, and if that goes well, start using the 150? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MWGemini 0 #32 November 22, 2004 I just purchased my first rig, with a Spectre 170 in it, at 36 jumps. I've had a fair amount of canopy coaching from my instructors, and I've taken a Scott Miller canopy control course. My body weight is 125, and I only load the 170 at .82 and .94 when wearing 15lbs of weight. I'm comfortable under the 170, but was initially skeptical about downsizing from the 190s I had been flying, since I was still flaring a little too high and too fast, causing a high plane out. Even with my relatively low wing loading, the 170 is able to go pretty fast, both in turns, and in straight flight. I would recommend stepping down gradually, getting professional instruction, and making the choice you feel is safest for you in the long term. Especially since you say you will be jumping seasonally, you really don't want to be picking up a highly loaded canopy with low jump numbers when you have not jumped in several months. With a larger canopy, you will able to learn at your own pace, and be safer doing it. Once you have the skill and technique down, you'll be able to induce speed using riser inputs, or by wearing weights to increase your wing loading. Another thing to think of: what is you goal with canopy piloting? Do you want to swoop? Do you want to get perfect accuracy and do demo jumps one day? Do you want to BASE jump? I personally want to go the latter route, getting a PRO rating to do demos, and develop excellent accuracy skills in the event I pick up BASE jumping. Make your decision based on your skill level and the disciplines of flight that you intend to pursue. Above all, be safe. Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeffcadieux 0 #33 November 22, 2004 He does not have one waiting to be sold, he encourages me to buy new. He does get a kickback from PD if I buy a Sabre II. However, that does not explain why he would recommend a 150 instead of a 170, which would still give him the kickback. I think he's just really confident in his skills as a canopy coach. I also want to point out that this conversation is not quite as one-sided as it seems. I've received several private messages that support the choice of a 150, but those people are afraid to post such an opinion on this forum, for fear of being chewed-out. Another option that has been suggested to me is to buy a Triathlon 160. The wingloading would be 1.1, a nice compromise between the two camps,and my understanding is that the fully square shape would make it more forgiving than a semi-elliptical. Anybody want to chime in on that idea? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skyhighkiy 0 #34 November 22, 2004 triathlon=7 cell rather than the sabre's 9 You're going to get less performance out of a 7 cell, although I know a couple people that have them that enjoy them. you can't go wrong w/ a 170...actually...what might solve all this...what's the smallest canopy you've jumped thus far? I made the decision to go w/ 170 after comming in downwind on a turbo0Z 165 if you haven't jumped a 170 and 150 yet...there's really no way to tell. edit to add: IT seems you're really eager to get under something smaller than a 170 really soon. and although there's chances you'd be fine going smaller, there's also chances you won't be. choose wisely. YOu're always fine under a smaller canopy until you're not. you will definately get more surf out of a 150 than a 170. if you don't have the skill todo high performance landings, and you'll definately have more speed when you nail the ground on one of your lesson-learning dives that are inevitable in the learning stages. BE THE BUDDHA! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #35 November 22, 2004 QuoteYou're going to get less performance out of a 7 cell, although I know a couple people that have them that enjoy them. Based on what? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ianmdrennan 2 #36 November 22, 2004 QuoteBased on what? Heh, dunno but last I checked my velocity was a 7 cell Guess that means I'd get more performance out of a Sabre2 then Performance Designs Factory Team Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nathaniel 0 #37 November 22, 2004 Quote Another option that has been suggested to me is to buy a Triathlon 160. The wingloading would be 1.1, a nice compromise between the two camps... The Triathlon is a 7-cell, and it flies rather differently from the Sabre-2. Basically it flies down . I've flown them each at the sizes you're considering, and I weigh just a tad less than you. What it sounds like you need to do is decide what you want out of a canopy. Since you're not set on either a rocket or a feather, or something in between, you probably need to jump more & demo canopies until you have a better idea of what you want. It would suck to get stuck with a canopy you don't like anymore after 50 jumps. nathanielMy advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir. The bums will always lose. Do you hear me, Lebowski? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #38 November 22, 2004 Your instructor knows you better than anyone on DZ.com However, you might ask him WHY he thinks you will be OK on this canopy when you haven't jumped one this size before. I hope it isn't because he has a canopy to sell! It can be done safely. I went straight to a WL around 1.3 for my first canopy, but I had finished my student training on a canopy that size (which appears to be a significant difference from your case).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
peregrinerose 0 #39 November 22, 2004 I'm a 15 jump wonder, so don't take my word for crap, okay? The way I see it, there's no reason to rush to a smaller canopy, I have lots of life left in me, many years ahead, so plenty of time to go to a smaller canopy size if I want to. There's so much to flying a canopy, and as I'm reading Brian Germain's book, it was plain scary just how much I didn't know that I didn't know. I jumped my own rig for the first time yesterday and was delighted with it. The smallest I've jumped yet, but forgiving of the fact that I didn't flare completely yesterday and am still learning to fly it. I'm 165 out the door and bought a sabre 170. It was a blast to fly and it will be a LOT of jumps before I'm ready to move to something new. Jen Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #40 November 22, 2004 QuoteI'm becoming convinced that this isn't such a good idea for me, especially since I will not be staying current. I only plan to jump during one or two time periods a year, on my vacations. I don't have a home DZ. That right there tells me the 150 is a bad idea. If you were going to be jumping all the time, maybe you could pull it off. But if you don't plan on staying current it si a bad idea. If I were only jumping two times a year, I'd get a 190 and play it safe."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenediktDE 2 #41 November 23, 2004 I now have 45 jumps and jump a wingload of nearly 1.2. I think I can only handle it because it is a canopy with a very very conservative shape (PD210). I used to jump a chayenne 210 on my 13th jump. Flared a bit to late and now still have problems with my wrist after now 3 months. I tried the same canopy 30 jumps later and enjoyed it very much. Maybe do some more 20 jumps or so on rented gear, borrow and jump a 150 and a 170, then decide. Just my 2 Cents as I am also new to the sport.For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeffcadieux 0 #42 November 23, 2004 Thanks again to all who have written so far, and to those who have messaged me as well. I'm nearing a decision here. It seems there is absolutely no reason for me to go to a 150 right away. I'm relatively young, and have more money (I'm not hitched yet ) than wrists, ankles, spines and lives. If I ever do want to get married, I also might need my face to be intact. I can go to my DZ, rent a 190 or so for a few jumps, then pull out my very own 170 canopy. When/if I get tired of that, I can sell it, right? I'll take a loss, but no big deal. Money is not my driving factor. While I am inclined to think I can handle anything (invincibility complex) I agree that it's not all that smart to push my limits when I have no intention of staying current. It could be a full year before I jump again after this initial training. Again, thanks to all! If you have anything more to add, I'm still open to your thoughts! Jeff Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenediktDE 2 #43 November 23, 2004 QuoteI'm relatively young, and have more money (I'm not hitched yet ) than wrists, ankles, spines and lives. [...] If you have anything more to add, I'm still open to your thoughts! Only one thing to add: Congratulations and enjoy the air! For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #44 November 23, 2004 QuoteYou're going to get less performance out of a 7 cell, although I know a couple people that have them that enjoy them. I disagree... That depends on how you define performamce at his skill level. a Triathlon could save his life due to it's slow speed flight characteristics. A Sabre could have the opposite effect. When my kids start jumping they will start on a Triathlon. It is the absolute best canopy to start on. It is solid in turbulence, great in flat turns, can sink in very well and isn't as unstable as a sabre in deep brakes. And if the time comes when one needs to use the 7 cell reserve they will already have experience landing a seven cell. Those of us that have plenty of jumps on them know that the landings are quiet different than a 9 cell. Rhino Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #45 November 23, 2004 Quote I now have 45 jumps and jump a wingload of nearly 1.2. I think I can only handle it because it is a canopy with a very very conservative shape (PD210). I would not call myself conservative if I would load my main over the recommended max. weight. Like 210 lbs with a PD210(PD9cell)................... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BenediktDE 2 #46 November 23, 2004 QuoteQuote I now have 45 jumps and jump a wingload of nearly 1.2. I think I can only handle it because it is a canopy with a very very conservative shape (PD210). I would not call myself conservative if I would load my main over the recommended max. weight. Like 210 lbs with a PD210(PD9cell). I called the canopie's shape conservative. But you are right, it is over the max. and I would not have done it if I knew it before buying.For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Scrumpot 1 #47 November 23, 2004 If you truly do FLY YOUR CANOPY, and want to (and do) learn how to FLY YOUR CANOPY, you CAN do that every bit as much with a 170 as you can a 150 at this stage. Don't let anybody fool you as to that. If you think you can't, then you simply are NOT FLYING YOUR CANOPY, understand what you are doing or are learning fully, how to fly it right in the 1st place, period. Yup, you can go faster with a 150 than you can with a 170 if you are torque-ing it. The only SIGNIFICANT difference you are truly subject to between them however, is how hard you will hit the ground when you screw up (and you WILL). Think of what your long-term goals are here. Will the 150 NOW really help you accomplish those? What's your fear in going with a 170 instead? -Grantcoitus non circum - Moab Stone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DancingFlame 0 #48 November 24, 2004 That is a wise decision! At least, you can always increase your w/l by wearing weights. Can't find an easy way to decrease w/l though... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattabram 0 #49 November 24, 2004 As you will not be staying current,I wouldn't suggest going smaller than a 170,preferably a square canopy,too.Make sure you downsize to this from the 230 with plenty of jumps on canopies inbetween. Remember though,that you can still damage yourself on a large canopy.It's what you do close to the ground that matters. Until you can fly the hell out of the 170 in any weather condition then you don't really need to downsize. Be safe.It's the skydive that counts.The canopy ride is just a bonus(at this stage anyway) ..God gave men 2 brains,but only enough blood to fill one at a time....I can live with that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
