sid 1 #451 December 4, 2004 QuoteQuoteI have 2nd hand knowledge that Ben and Cary are at it again under the name "SkyTeam" a.k.a. skyride, steal your money , whatever. Most likely starting another Corp just in case the other one has to be closed? Or, a marketing plan that has them trying to grab more of the market share by looking like more than one company. Plus, linking between the sites will help raise their placement on Google. I got this email from a friend of mine who is a dzo "I just got a call from Eline who used to work at 1800skyride and she is starting her own company, so she says. I forgot the name she is using. I think it may have been 1-800-skyteam. She wants to do essentially the same thing but sell gift certificates at a specific DZ in the persons area. She will pay the DZ what they want and tack on 35% that she keeps. In my case that would be $200 plus her $70. I wish I could get $270 for a tandem. She was really trying to sell me but I told her that I wasn't interested. I think the sport has too many 1-800-skyleeches. Isn't there some sort of pesticide we can use. I would encourage DZ's not to deal with any of these operations because it just encourages more of them to start up." Y'all are busted!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Edited by slotperfect to remove antagonizing text with violent references.Pete Draper, Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #452 December 4, 2004 FYI I did a quick search in newsgroups related to aviation and I found glider schools with similar complaints, and even linking to Jan's website._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #453 December 4, 2004 Acquired: 1800skyteam.com 1800skyteam.net 1800skyteam.org 1800-skyteam.com 1800-skyteam.net 1800-skyteam.org Who wants em?----- ~~~Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #454 December 4, 2004 Quote Google can't tell how many hits a website gets unless they come from within google. But some good news... a google search for "skyride" brings up Jan Meyer's skyride scam page before the real 1800skyride site. http://www.google.com/...mp;start=10&sa=N A search for 800skyride brings up a dz.com thread about skyride first, and a search for 1800skyride brings up Jan Meyers page right after the real 1800skyride site. Jan's site is on page 2, 1800skyshit is on page 1! Quote I'm not real sharp on this new fangled "World Wide Web" thing...like how search engines work. So I was wondering... 'Theoretically' that is... If I were to click that google link in your post, then click on the 19th entry brought up by the search...which is Jan's site.. ...And do that, over and over and over again... like say 25 ~ 30 times a day..every day, and if I got a whole bunch of like minded people to do the same... That eventually the 19th listing in the search would continue to go UP in the search engine rankings? Not that I would EVER do something like that, or recommend my friends to... But again... I'm just trying to learn something here.. In 'theory'...is that how a search engine works? ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiver30960 0 #455 December 4, 2004 QuoteAcquired: 1800skyteam.com 1800skyteam.net 1800skyteam.org 1800-skyteam.com 1800-skyteam.net 1800-skyteam.org Who wants em? Well done. Elvisio "teehee" Rodriguez Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FlyingJ 0 #456 December 5, 2004 The way that Google ranks listings is by how many other sights link to the site in question. For instance, the more people that have a link to Jan's site on their own webpage, the higher in the listing Jan's page would appear.Killing threads since 2004. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #457 December 5, 2004 QuoteThe way that Google ranks listings is by how many other sights link to the site in question. Is this the new way that Google looks for things? Their ways have been a mystery of late and they are constantly changing them...----- ~~~Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutingstar 1 #458 December 5, 2004 Hey Levin, Just wanted to get back to you about your post directed at me. So I'll answer your questions, or give comments on what you posted. I'm not reposting your comments, so the following answers/comments may seem scattered, but I'm just going down your list. You asked if I am the manager of Atlanta Skydiving Center. I am the staff manager. I oversee staffing, experienced jumper events, safety issues, student training, gear sales, onsite customer service, forums, newsletter etc. I don't manage the entire operation, just the skydiving/staff portion. I don't know who cyberskydive is. Signs/stickers for different drop zones are all over Atlanta and routinely are stuck over competitors. I've seen Thomaston signs over Cedartown, Cedartown over Monroe, Monroe over Cedartown, etc. I have been friends with Ben and Cary since I started skydiving in Ellijay in 1995 and enjoy hanging out with them, working with them and skydiving with them. They are not "parasites." Chutingstar DOES provide great rigging services while treating our customers well and I do give a damn about what's best for the sport. I routinely work 15+ hour days in the loft just to make sure all of our experienced jumpers are up and safely jumping when they want to be. I do make a living in skydiving, but it's not "all about the money" as you suggest. If you spent any time with me and my fellow staff-members at ASC, you would know that immediately...from the free AFF side-video to the late night ground help for A and B licenses to the plain "helping hand" attitude at ASC toward everyone that walks through the door. I've read the article published in Skydiving Magazine about ASC's web sites. Truffer's conclusion, in my memory, is that the company is aggressively marketing itself. As a side note, if images have been improperly used, I hope that will be taken care of soon. As to all the stories from Sandor Vali, I will take him at his word on this "Mr. Sparks" and hope that the issue has been resolved. His claims on 24 other times seem extreme and unsupported. This type of booking confusion doesn't help anyone and I hope the booking is done more carefully in the future by Skyride. At the same time, since Sandor seems so ready to tout his bad experience with ASC, I would like to share numerous bad experiences with Sandor's Georgia Skydiving Center over the past two years...and I am hard pressed to feel comfortable sending anyone there to skydive. This includes skydives sold as Accelerated Freefall student training jumps done with unrated skydivers. We've had several such instances where we had to help the unsuspecting skydiver through REAL AFF jumps later on after making numerous illegal AFF jumps in Rome. Through Skydivegear.com, the ASC gear sales company, I helped several Rome skydivers last year whose money was taken by the Rome DZ for gear that was never delivered. I ended up getting these customers into gear at our cost. These customers paid for and ordered gear from the Rome DZ, but never received it...and were told they wouldn't receive it since the money was gone. And lastly, I continually have corrected shoddy rigging work from that DZ. Many of my stories on the Rigger "Rant and Rave" come from riggers who have worked at that DZ...and I have fixed alot of those errors for free. Sandor has been nothing but a nice guy to me in the past, but he seems to have forgotten quickly about his own DZ as he casts stones toward ASC and Skyride. There was a sign issue in Alpharetta, but I don't know the details. I'm not a part of the physical advertising, but I'm glad there are signs out there. When I was a drummer for a band in Seattle for several years in the late '80s and early '90s, I religiously posted band stickers, signs, flyers, etc. on telephone poles, bathrooms, venues...you name it. I wanted people to come out and enjoy the music...and it helped...kind of a grassroots advertising. This is the same kind of stuff and I guess I am a skateboarder/musician at heart and don't see a problem with it. With all that being said, I don't always agree with everything Ben and Cary do. But then again, I don't know anybody I agree with 100% of the time...even myself. I make mistakes, do things that I later regret or get in a bad mood from time-to-time. There are so many good things happening with Skyride, ASC, and other associated businesses. That is what I focus on and that is what I strive to make better. There are so many Skyride students that enjoy their skydive/overall experience and come back for more. There are so many great staff members and experienced jumpers at ASC just having a good time everyday, enjoying life and helping each other out. I take pride in what Chuting Star Rigging Loft has become and the service I provide as well as the safety articles I write for the entire skydiving community. Skydivegear.com provides great gear at low prices with great customer service. I make zero to very little money selling gear, but I love to see customers in new, safe gear. And I've called Atlanta Skydiving Center home since 1997. I started there as a fun jumper, 4-way competitor and packer...and have never looked back. Mark Shimell was the first AFF student to graduate at ASC....and is still a spaz to this day. I take pride in that ASC started as a Cessna 182 DZ on some packing mats on the grass by the runway in Cedartown and we now have this huge two-story structure with a Super Twin Otter, Mirage student gear, Sigma tandem gear, fulltime rigging/gear sales and we fly every single day. And I love all of the people I jump with, work with and hang out with...I wouldn't have it any other way. And I will continue making Chutingstar, Skydivegear and ASC the best it can be. I'm very excited about the upcoming 2-way belly competition I'm organizing with Tyler Lawson this Saturday as we get our A, B and C Licensed skydivers jumping together and getting better. I've also been working hard on the events calendar for 2005 at ASC. This is going to be one heck of a great year at ASC! I invite you come jump with me sometime soon. Take care...it's time to get some sleep, MikeChutingStar.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pilotdave 0 #459 December 5, 2004 Nobody's accusing ASC of not being a good DZ. The problem is QuoteWith all that being said, I don't always agree with everything Ben and Cary do. That's what the complaints are about. Not that you don't have a fun filled schedule planned for 2005. We don't care about that. We care that your dropzone has made up the National Skydiving Association which has supposedly certified certain dropzones, including fictional ones. We care that skydiving.com shows locations of fictional dropzones. We care that your dropzone promotes fictional dropzones using images stolen from real dropzone websites. Etc, etc, etc... I know how Skyride is good for ASC and its owners. But how is it good for skydiving? Face it. You're just scamming new/potential skydivers. Sure, some will continue and finish AFF and be happy and all that. But you still scammed them and they probably don't know it. Dave Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thanatos340 1 #460 December 5, 2004 QuoteWe've had several such instances where we had to help the unsuspecting skydiver through REAL AFF jumps later on after making numerous illegal AFF jumps in Rome As someone who went through AFF at Rome under Sandor Vali, I would like to know Exactly what you mean by this? The USPA seemed to have absolutely no problem issuing my license based on training there (Which was always Done EXACTLY by the book). Although I can definitely believe that ASC would be glad to tell students this so they can sell them more AFF jumps. Sandor Vali is one Hell of an AFF Instructor who does everything by the book and passes his knowledge on for free every chance he gets. Quote These customers paid for and ordered gear from the Rome DZ How about telling the whole truth?? Those people paid Ron Green who Owned Atlanta Air Sportz which used to be located at the Rome airport and went out of business almost 3 years ago. Georgia Skydiving Center didn’t even exist then. QuoteI continually have corrected shoddy rigging work from that DZ. From what Rigger?? The only two Riggers that I know of that have ever done work around that DZ are Frank Wilson (Who now Jumps at the Farm) and Norm Johnson who does work for many different DZ`s and is not associated with any particular DZ. If you are going to Name Names, Then do it. Which one of these riggers are you accusing of shoddy work? This entire name calling/ DZ Rivalry shit is just that SHIT. It makes everyone look bad. If you really want to make a difference at ASC, Try telling their sales people to Stop lying about who they are and/or where they are. A little honesty every now and then. Get the "Management" to remove all stolen material from their Websites. Stop creating Web Sites for Dropzones that don’t exist. Drop the Bullshit "Extra Fee" you charge you charge Tandems for the "Big Plane Fee" or "Extra Altitude" that they are not aware of until they get there. Basically, Adopt and Enforce a Code of Ethics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kelpdiver 2 #461 December 5, 2004 Quote At the same time, since Sandor seems so ready to tout his bad experience with ASC, I would like to share numerous bad experiences with Sandor's Georgia Skydiving Center over the past two years...and I am hard pressed to feel comfortable sending anyone there to skydive. This includes skydives sold as Accelerated Freefall student training jumps done with unrated skydivers. We've had several such instances where we had to help the unsuspecting skydiver through REAL AFF jumps later on after making numerous illegal AFF jumps in Rome. The response to this should be interesting. It's actionable if false, though establishing damages may be difficult. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #462 December 5, 2004 >As a side note, if images have been improperly used, I hope that will be taken care of soon. Do you want the 300+ violations that I've got logged so far as a starting point? For instance right on ASC's home page are 2 violations I know of. 1 more that I just am waiting on an email back from the photographer to confirm it. Ben and Cary are up to their neck in copyright violations. Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #463 December 5, 2004 Quote>As a side note, if images have been improperly used, I hope that will be taken care of soon. Do you want the 300+ violations that I've got logged so far as a starting point? For instance right on ASC's home page are 2 violations I know of. 1 more that I just am waiting on an email back from the photographer to confirm it. Ben and Cary are up to their neck in copyright violations. And those photographers have made phone calls, sent letters and emails informing them they were in violation of using stolen images - well over a year or two ago!!! I believe certified letters have been sent in regards to the pictures as well. In fact, some of those photographers have mentioned it here on the forums as well (where there are rumors of Skyride owners reading this thread). Check out this post and notice the date: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=756466;#756466 What would the definition of "soon" be in terms of "I hope that will be taken care of soon." How about the use of TM'd items that have been pointed out in this thread? Or the total theft of websites with the intent to confuse? How would a certain rigging loft based out of ASC like it if someone was stealing money from them or misrepresenting the work that was done there? I'm thinking they would be proud of the hard work they have done to establish their name. I'm also pretty certain they would be pissed off if there was a person or two out there that was causing this damage and others were blindly supporting them in their efforts. Better yet - would you knowingly repack a stolen rig and give it back to the thief??? If you were to ignore everything else about Skyride - this theft would still be outstanding._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chriswelker 0 #464 December 5, 2004 Acquired: 1800skyteam.com 1800skyteam.net 1800skyteam.org 1800-skyteam.com 1800-skyteam.net 1800-skyteam.org Who wants em? ----- ~~~Michael *** Maybe the True Skydivers of DZ.com could assist a little with the purchase? Chris Welker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chriswelker 0 #465 December 5, 2004 How about boycotting ASC and all of their vendors, suppliers, and any other enterprises that these guy are connected with. Chris Welker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #466 December 5, 2004 How about contacting any investigative reporters in your areas.That could get interesting. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #467 December 5, 2004 QuoteMaybe the True Skydivers of DZ.com could assist a little with the purchase? Chris Welker $48 if anyone is interested. Not too worried about it though since it was a business expense. Tell you what, buy a necklace or two, sign an affidavite that you'll not use a domain for anything I or the rest of the skydiving world deems bad and I'll give it to you...----- ~~~Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wuffo 1 #468 December 5, 2004 Quoteafter making numerous illegal AFF jumps I've taught many people how to skydive, completely LEGALLY, without a AFF rating from USPA. You should have said "against the club rules" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CSpenceFLY 1 #469 December 5, 2004 QuoteQuoteMaybe the True Skydivers of DZ.com could assist a little with the purchase? Chris Welker $48 if anyone is interested. Not too worried about it though since it was a business expense. Tell you what, buy a necklace or two, sign an affidavite that you'll not use a domain for anything I or the rest of the skydiving world deems bad and I'll give it to you... Do you have a paypal account? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #470 December 5, 2004 QuoteDo you have a paypal account? Yes - 2. Business account is [email protected] (linked to my store in the sig line) or [email protected] (the one I don't have to claim on taxes).----- ~~~Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sid 1 #471 December 5, 2004 Quote I have been friends with Ben and Cary since I started skydiving in Ellijay in 1995 and enjoy hanging out with them, working with them and skydiving with them. They are not "parasites." As a side note, if images have been improperly used, I hope that will be taken care of soon. Let me see , they steal images, whole web site designs, use bait and switch advertising, use bogus and misleading websites for dz's that don't exist using images they don't own.. and the list goes on, but they're not parasites???? If they offer you Kool-Aid I wouldn't be too quick to drink it! Denial isn't a river in Egypt! Hey, I have an idea to “aggressively market my rigging services. Maybe I'll register www.chutingstarr.com (I checked, it’s available) , build me a nice black and yellow website, call myself "The Plan B Specialist" and ask people to fed-ex me their rigs for repacks. I'll explain that I am "near Georgia" and definitely the closest rigging loft to wherever they are. I’ll explain that it’s easier to ship me your rig for faster service, hell I’ll even give them my UPS account # to use.. The advertised fee will be $35 (but if pressed as to why I charged their card $90 I’ll explain that the $35 is for the repack. I'll add on shipping, handling, inspection fees, "loop" costs, depreciation on my fingers etc.) I won't have to design a website 'cause I know where there's one that I can right click, save all the images and fonts and just alter the phone numbers and email addresses. Now there's some aggressive marketing for you! Hey why stop there? I can register “shootingstar” “chutestar” etc. etc. I can put versions of the same damn site with different locations – pretending to be in every state. I think I may have something here………… C'mon, get a grip.Pete Draper, Just because my life plan is written on the back of a Hooter's Napkin, it's still a life plan.... right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chriswelker 0 #472 December 5, 2004 Quote$48 if anyone is interested. Not too worried about it though since it was a business expense. Tell you what, buy a necklace or two, sign an affidavite that you'll not use a domain for anything I or the rest of the skydiving world deems bad and I'll give it to you... ----- ~~~Michael DEAL! Chris Welker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chriswelker 0 #473 December 5, 2004 QuoteHey, I have an idea to “aggressively market my rigging services. Maybe I'll register www.chutingstarr.com (I checked, it’s available) Let's do it! Chris Welker Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chutingstar 1 #474 December 6, 2004 QuoteQuoteHey, I have an idea to “aggressively market my rigging services. Maybe I'll register www.chutingstarr.com (I checked, it’s available) Let's do it! Chris Welker Woohoo! More Rigger "Rant and Rave" articles for everyone to learn from...thanks! MikeChutingStar.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WFFC 1 #475 December 6, 2004 I love skydivers, especially this time of year. The weather starts starts to turn to crap up north, the southern DZs come to life, and we all have time to bitch about more things than any other time. Let's try to get this back on topic to Skyride and drop bringing Chutingstar into this. (Mike, if you can substantiate your AFF claims, please do bring them forward, but start a new thread - This thread is on Skyride, not this topic). Unfortunately, due to your association, you're gonna get drug into this.----- ~~~Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
