Big Dropzones

[skydude2000 3]

Hi guys,

I was just wondering, what kinds of things would I need to know if I were ever to visit a big dropzone? I jump at a dz with 2 planes, and maybe 8 or 9 people in the air, max. How much of an adjustment would it be for me, going from that, to someplace like Arizona or Florida at any of the big clubs there? I think I'd be pretty nervous being in the air with 20 or so other people.The last thing I'd want would be to turn into a safety hazard, or have people pissed at me cuz I don't know the dropzone very well. Any tips or resources would be appreciated :)

Blue ones,

Skydude.

PULL!! or DIE!!

[AggieDave 6]

When you get to the DZ, get your paperwork in order, get the briefing from manifest and try to find an experienced regular to give you a briefing as well. Preferably an instructor or the S&TA but many times they're very busy. Now the hard part. Sit out a few loads. Watch how the loading process works, watch how the jump runs are running, watch the opening location and what people are doing in the pattern. That step is very important. Find out what the pattern is, what the direction is, where your outs are, etc.

After all of that many times I'll do a solo to get used to the DZ on a lower stress jump. Then get with the organizers and get jumping. Take a deep breath, keep your head on a swivel, besure to look up and try to look behind you for faster canopies that might not be flown by pilots that fly correctly. Fly a deliberate and predictable pattern and have fun.

The most important thing for me is to find the swoop pond, talk to the local swoopers and go test the water.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[NWFlyer 2]

BillVon's article on safety at the WFFC has a lot of things that are applicable anywhere new ...

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/detail_page.cgi?ID=40

I've traveled to a lot of different dropzones... here's what I try to do.

1) Get a thorough briefing from the DZ staff, preferably with an aerial photo, focusing on patterns (who establishes the pattern, are there default patterns in low/no wind), are there different landing areas for different jumper types, what are good/bad outs, rough spots in the landing area that aren't obvious from just looking, any other special info relevant to the DZ.

1a) If you've never jumped the airplane type - ask for a briefing on the plane, check out the mockup if there is one to see what the door is like. Ask for info on jump run - how is it signaled, how do jumpers communicate with the pilot, etc.

2) Walk the landing area (being careful not to be wandering about when there are people actually landing). See if what looks like smooth grass is actually riddled with gopher holes and hidden ditches.

3) Watch at least one load land, paying attention to patterns, landing speed, winds, etc.

4) Start with something simple. Maybe not a solo, but a small, simple jump so that you can focus on learning the DZ. See if you can break off/pull a little high to make sure you can get your bearings (but make sure you know what the DZ policy is on that before you decide that).

5) Head on swivel from the second you open till you're down on the ground.

6) Hang in brakes - get the lay of the land, watch the pattern get established (or not) and get an idea of how you're going to fit in. No need to rush to be the first one down.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[in2jumping 0]

One thing I do at big crowded DZs landing areas like Eloy is fly around in brakes and or rear risers up high for a while and let all the faster swooper get down first. Seems every time you try and beat those guys down you always end up landing with them.

[Amazon 7]

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) Head on swivel from the second you open till you're down on the ground.

6) Hang in brakes - get the lay of the land, watch the pattern get established (or not) and get an idea of how you're going to fit in. No need to rush to be the first one down.

Head on swivel from the second you open till you're down on the ground. AND untill you clear the landing area especially if the next load is landing after you have hung out in brakes and have a big slow canopy and landed after everyone on YOUR load.

[Stuntbabex 0]

Make sure you communicate with as many people on the load as possible and know what the upper winds are doing. Freaky feeling when youre not even at break off and youre already seeing canopies open a little too close for comfort. Had to dump early a couple times because of that.

[hackish 8]

Next week I'll be at deland and in a similar situation except the OP has a big head start. I've only bailed out of 182's and a maule once. Going to be lots of firsts for me... Shall I bring a case of Canadian beer?

One little question I've gotten conflicting answers about is would it be acceptable to chain the lines when you land or is the landing area so busy you're expected to touch down and get off it immediately?

-Michael

[Meux 0]

If you turn and face the landing traffic there is no hurry. They have a really big landing area and if you take a few extra seconds to pick up, chances are good no one will notice.

Have Fun

[UDSkyJunkie 0]

Lots of great advice here. One thing i don't think I saw... some larger DZ's (Eloy is one) have multiple landing areas, and inevitably whichever one is right next to the hanger is super-congested, and the others are not. Don't be too manly to take the alternate if you're uncomfortable with 20 (or 40 or 60 or 100) other people in the air at the same time. Yes, it means you have to walk more than 50 feet, but it's worth it.

"Some people follow their dreams, others hunt them down and beat them mercilessly into submission."

[hackish 8]

I am of little experience when it comes to traffic and this is why I'm concerned. At most I've had 2 students and their instructor to fly a pattern around. I think the biggest problem will be judging the altitude in the pattern.

I've often seen people online here bitching about those who screw things up flying S turns and deep in the brakes and don't really want to end up there.

Hrm. New DZ and rented equipment... Already at a disavantage here...

-Michael

[jojo69 0]

Deland has a landing area in front of the deck where the peas are, one further out for intermediate jumpers and a student area that is in a different part of the airport (on the other side of the hangers). If you land at the student area, you will be given a ride in the truck back. There is plenty of room. I think you will like it.

[darkwing 4]

I strongly second the idea of sitting around and watching a two or three loads. Get a sense of things. Pay attention to what is going on, where and how people are landing, who lands where, etc.

It is very important to pay attention to off dz landing possibilities. I think I have landed out at every big DZ I have been to, and many small ones too. I start paying attention to the landscape when I am a couple of miles away from the DZ on my way there.

-- Jeff
My Skydiving History

[hackish 8]

This whole idea of getting out when the green light turns on is a little odd to me. I guess having been taught to spot from very early on has made me a little wary. I expect I'll probably be out last but are the spots usually on or are these horror stories I keep hearing the exception?

-Michael

[Stuntbabex 0]

All the larger DZ's (and even small dzs) I jumped at used GPS to spot. Thats not to say that youll get a good spot, jumping out last. At Perris Ive gotten bad spots as the last jumper but was still able to get back without probs. Dunno how Deland is tho.

[bigbearfng 9]

Also pay attention to how many planes are flying at once-they may be running paralell junp runs.

[Baksteen 84]

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Be manly enough to take the alternate...

Fixed it for ya

"That formation-stuff in freefall is just fun and games but with an open parachute it's starting to sound like, you know, an extreme sport."
~mom

[tdog 0]

There is a big difference between a boogie and a normal weekend at a big DZ.

Our DZ has 23 people in the landing pattern on every load, rarely are there problems, we all know what to do, and any visitor seems to blend in to the operations.

Eloy has a holiday boogie where people from all over the world show up. Last year there were two canopy collision fatalities in the landing area in two days. This was because all 23-50 people in the pattern were undisciplined and from different DZs of different sizes.

I have no problem landing "in" every load at home.

In Eloy I run far, far away from others - and land out where no one is trying to kill me under canopy.

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I was just wondering, what kinds of things would I need to know if I were ever to visit a big dropzone?

Either way - you will do fine. Watch a couple loads before you jump. Count locals vs visitors and if the visitor load is high, see if they are disciplined, or if you want to find alternate landing areas. AND HAVE A LOT OF FUN!!!

[NWFlyer 2]

If you're visiting Deland and can take Scott Miller's course while you're there that'll greatly increase your confidence in judging your patterns. Depending on how the winds are, the main landing area can get a lot more turbulence than the alternate, so definitely ask about that, too.

As others have mentioned - Deland has a large alternate area that's a long walk or a short truck ride. There's also lots of good outs on the airport property.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[tdog 0]

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This whole idea of getting out when the green light turns on is a little odd to me. I guess having been taught to spot from very early on has made me a little wary. I expect I'll probably be out last but are the spots usually on or are these horror stories I keep hearing the exception?

-Michael

Your skills will be useful.

The greenlight means "pilot thinks you should go."

You make the final decision.

If the spot is marginal, and you know you have acceptable outs below you, get out on the green light. The pilot likely knows about uppers and is compensating. If he is wrong, land out, and tell manifest to tell the pilot. Pilots will gladly accept your knowledge, in the same way pilots accept weather reports from other pilots in the sky. They want you to land in, and they want to turn on the green light at the right time.

If you don't like the spot - here is a trick... Communicate to the jumpers before they yell "go, go, go." Simply look back at them and shake your head "no" and use your hand to sign-language "a second or two" or "a bit more." If they know you are actively making decisions, it is hard for them to yell. If you have the blank stare of a deer in the headlights, they will yell. Another trick. If you are first out and climbing out - but the spot is a hair far... Start your climbout and respot before you do your count. Likely you will be in the right spot by then, and the people behind you will not be able to yell at ya if you need to wait one second.


Hint: A small DZ with only a cessna - the spots typically will always be over the landing area.

A large plane needs to drop 8 groups on average. 1000 feet between groups = 8,000 feet. That means expect 4,000 feet prior to the landing area, and 4,000 feet after the landing area, as still acceptable spots. That is almost a mile - or almost twice the length of a typical DZ runway. If you are first out and you are directly over the landing area with no winds to compensate - you screwed up.

[NewGuy2005 51]

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I expect I'll probably be out last but are the spots usually on or are these horror stories I keep hearing the exception?

-Michael

Mike,

I'm from a Cessna DZ, but have made jumps at big DZs from as soon as I got my license. I travel occaisionally with work and always take my rig,

I am always almost the first out since I'm solo, so I've checked the spot more than once. Tdog said to expect to exit earlier than you are used to. He's right. If you wait until the spot's just right, you'll screw the whole load.

I looked at your profile. Looks like you'll be able to hang in brakes and land almost last, even if you get out first. That's what I always do and typically land after the swoopers and before the tandems, even when I get out first. That's well within my comfort zone.

The first couple of times I jumped at "big city" drop zones I was pretty nervous. Now I love it. Don't be too proud to let folks know you're a newbie from out of town. It's a good way to learn the ropes and meet the locals.

[Andrewwhyte 1]

What big DZs put solos out first?

[NewGuy2005 51]

All that I've been to. I'm a belly flyer. The rest of the loads have usually been freeflyers and tandems.

[kallend 1,632]

Remember - some people do their first jump at a big DZ. You have an advantage over them.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[hackish 8]

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If you're visiting Deland and can take Scott Miller's course while you're there that'll greatly increase your confidence in judging your patterns. Depending on how the winds are, the main landing area can get a lot more turbulence than the alternate, so definitely ask about that, too.

Unfortunately the stars are not well aligned. I've been exchanging email with Scott for more than a month and he has other things to attend to - I can respect that. He referred me to someone else (bobo maybe???) but they never got back to me. Enough stress for me - I'll just go jump - if coaching is available I'll do it. If the weather sucks I'll see about the tunnel.

Good points about the spot. I usually open fairly high so probably not going to be a big problem. Fresh dropzone, different equipment and lots of scare stories about Florida alligators....

If you are open 3000' away with no wind you'll still have around 7500' of range. It just doesn't feel like it when you're coming back from a long spot... :)

-Michael

[brettski74 0]

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All that I've been to. I'm a belly flyer. The rest of the loads have usually been freeflyers and tandems.

I'd hate to see you learning the wrong thing...

You're out first because you're the only belly flyer, NOT because you're a solo. Typically, most dropzones put belly flyers out before freeflyers, but within those, larger groups go before smaller groups. You were actually the last of the belly flyers. It just happened that you were also the only one and therefore first.