Remster 24 #76 October 13, 2006 QuoteQuoteand let’s be honest here a Cypres looks like a bomb! It’s a big battery pack with wires running out of it! How often have you seen a "real" bomb? Other than on TV of course. I'm sure you've seen them there all the time...and that obviously makes you an expert. The cypress cutter looks just like a detonator. Same shape and size. with wires coming out the end too.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sundevil777 93 #77 October 13, 2006 Quotechoice was simply open the reserver or don't fly. Check or unchecked, it was going to be opened. Were they confiscating your rig? If not, then were they going to follow you if you left the screening area with your baggage and head back to the ticket counter to check it? If not, then there would have been a different set of TSA monkeys to inspect your checked baggage. For those that say it should be no big deal, just get a repack, it can take a long time to get that done. I wouldn't want to sacrifice the time. Someone asked about whether the cypres has an explosive charge. It doesn't, but both the old and new versions do have propellant. As I said in a previous post, burning fast or exploding would be the same to them, I think. It is a very small amount and it is contained, even after burning, so it was judged to be OK by security officials.People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Reginald 0 #78 October 13, 2006 QuoteQuoteQuoteand let’s be honest here a Cypres looks like a bomb! It’s a big battery pack with wires running out of it! How often have you seen a "real" bomb? Other than on TV of course. I'm sure you've seen them there all the time...and that obviously makes you an expert. The cypress cutter looks just like a detonator. Same shape and size. with wires coming out the end too. LOL! Yeah, what he said! "We've been looking for the enemy for some time now. We've finally found him. We're surrounded. That simplifies things." CP Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freakyrat 1 #79 October 14, 2006 Yeah I got to Burlington VT this past year where the TSA had opened my bag (Travelpro) and ripped the zipper pull of one of the main zippers. They put their little note in my shaving kit. Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gravitational 0 #80 October 14, 2006 QuoteFor those that say it should be no big deal, just get a repack, it can take a long time to get that done. I wouldn't want to sacrifice the time. On this note, my rigger is 90 minutes away and I'm never home to get the rig there soooo...------ Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #81 October 14, 2006 >USPA has worked to avoid this from happening to us...and it did. USPA has indeed worked hard to allow you to fly with your rig. One of the decisions they came to (with the TSA) was that sometimes you have to open your rig for inspection. If you don't like that, lobby for a change. But until USPA and TSA changes their mind, they will tell you that TSA was doing exactly what USPA and TSA has agreed they CAN do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #82 October 14, 2006 >It is in their right to break out the screw drivers and take apart your >business laptop, or your cell phone, because all the "wires raised suspicion". >That doesn't mean that they should right? If they honestly think a laptop is a bomb, I hope to god they have the cojones to take it apart! That's their job. When they don't do their jobs, we get Lockerbie. Fortunately, if they want to take apart your laptop and you don't want them to, you can always walk away. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tsisson 0 #83 October 14, 2006 TSA = Takes Scissors Away Our fear is simply misguided and driven by our irrational thoughts that no one will stand up and put a serious beat down on anyone trying to penetrate a cockpit. Liquid bombs...right... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Froggy 0 #84 October 14, 2006 There were some other threads in the past discussing air travel with your rig, and pretty much everything that was said here was already mentioned before... It sure sucks big time to have your reserve opened, but the bottom line is that TSA does have a right to do it, and there's nothing we can do about it. I am totally with you on the fact that it was a misinformed decision of the TSA super to do it, but, technically speaking, they did nothing wrong... However, I wouldn't 100% agree with you that having a printout of a TSA policy from their web site would not help. Now, I am not saying it sure would, but it definitely could have. I am really amazed sometimes how impressed some people are by "officially looking" paperwork. So, it's a smart thing to always have it with you. I have been traveling with my rig (always carry-on) withing the USA and Canada, as well as overseas. Never had a major problem with security. Quite often they ask me to open flaps to do a swipe. Couple of times I ended up opening my main container (didn't even think about arguing about it), but never the reserve. Most of the times they don't ask a single question, and don't even bother looking inside the bag. But I do realize that it may not always be like that... I remember one time TSA gave me a hard time in a small airport in the middle of nowhere in Texas. Those guys clearly have NEVER seen a parachute before. They called pretty much every TSA official they had in the airport. It took them some time to look up their SOPs, an they finally let me go. The supervisor was most impressed with the Cypres X-ray card -- he asked me where I got it from, because he was sure image like that would be a classified information... There are some papers I always have in my bag with the rig: 1. TSA policy 2. USPA letter 3. Cypres X-ray card 4. Home-made warning notice (see attached) This warning notice is the first thing they see when they open the bag. The rest of the paperwork is behind it in a plastic sleeve. I also normally use a couple of zip-ties (with bright orange tags attached to them) to secure the reserve handle to an MLW, just in case...-------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #85 October 14, 2006 Thats the shit right there mate! I got to get one of those letters. To me it says 'fuck you, think about your livelyhood before you tamper with my parachute!' That letter will stop and make the best of them think first. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,048 #86 October 15, 2006 Hi Froggy, You should consider sending that attachment to SKYDIVING Magazine with your other information. I would think that Mike Truffer would reprint/do an article on it. Jerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eule 0 #87 October 15, 2006 This is more of a general query, and not specifically in response to this incident. Is it known if TSA training covers parachutes? More specifically, does TSA have their own rigs that they can run through the X-ray machine for the new guys? If not, would it be useful for them to have some? This wouldn't even have to cost a lot of money. Take an old container, put two ragged-out mains in it (one hooked up as the reserve), and a timed-out Cypres. It wouldn't be something you could jump but it would look exactly the same as a good rig on the X-ray. The minimum would probably be one per state and better would be one per major airport. That way it would be easy for the supervisors to run the rig through the machine each time they get some new people. One problem with this is some way to mark the "dummy" rig so nobody actually tries to jump it. Another is that it's hard to have all the options and variations on each "dummy" rig. Maybe if there was one per airport, it could be set up so that the next airport over has a slightly different rig, so they could occasionally exchange rigs. An even cheaper way would be to take some good rigs and a digital camera to an airport. Take visible-light pictures of the rig in different orientations, then take pictures/screen captures of what it looks like on the X-ray. This would allow for pictures of a wider variety of rigs and options as well - tandem vs regular, spring pilot chute vs BOC, rapide links vs. Slinks, hard cable housings vs soft, etc. Then the only cost is incorporating those pictures into a training document and emailing it to the various airports. USPA's role in this might be to work with riggers, AAD makers, etc to get some old gear assembled into "dummy" rigs for TSA, and coordinating with TSA to get the rigs to the various airports and/or training centers. EulePLF does not stand for Please Land on Face. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #88 October 15, 2006 Aren't police bomb squads in the habit of mailing each other"surprise packages?" Perhaps the TSA should adopt the habit of sending the occasional "surprise package" through airport screeners, just to keep them on their toes. If USPA, PIA, or some generous rigger wants to provide sample "surprise packages" great! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #89 October 15, 2006 QuoteThis is more of a general query, and not specifically in response to this incident. Is it known if TSA training covers parachutes? More specifically, does TSA have their own rigs that they can run through the X-ray machine for the new guys? If not, would it be useful for them to have some? This wouldn't even have to cost a lot of money. Take an old container, put two ragged-out mains in it (one hooked up as the reserve), and a timed-out Cypres. It wouldn't be something you could jump but it would look exactly the same as a good rig on the X-ray. The minimum would probably be one per state and better would be one per major airport. That way it would be easy for the supervisors to run the rig through the machine each time they get some new people. One problem with this is some way to mark the "dummy" rig so nobody actually tries to jump it. Another is that it's hard to have all the options and variations on each "dummy" rig. Maybe if there was one per airport, it could be set up so that the next airport over has a slightly different rig, so they could occasionally exchange rigs. An even cheaper way would be to take some good rigs and a digital camera to an airport. Take visible-light pictures of the rig in different orientations, then take pictures/screen captures of what it looks like on the X-ray. This would allow for pictures of a wider variety of rigs and options as well - tandem vs regular, spring pilot chute vs BOC, rapide links vs. Slinks, hard cable housings vs soft, etc. Then the only cost is incorporating those pictures into a training document and emailing it to the various airports. USPA's role in this might be to work with riggers, AAD makers, etc to get some old gear assembled into "dummy" rigs for TSA, and coordinating with TSA to get the rigs to the various airports and/or training centers. Eule For some reason i dont think there is enough parachute going through customs for them to bother spending millions of dollars on training and gear. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #90 October 15, 2006 ">One problem with this is some way to mark the "dummy" rig so nobody actually tries to jump it. Another is that it's hard to have all the options and variations on each "dummy" rig. Maybe if there was one per airport, it could be set up so that the next airport over has a slightly different rig, so they could occasionally exchange rigs. Do you really think we are a big enough majority for the security of the world to give a shit about us being lucky enough for us to take our sports equipment on to a plane. I really dont think so. If people are going to complain to the TSA then all the TSA need to say is, fine, you can not take parachutes on a plane, problem solved! we are lucky to be able to take our rigs on a plane, i see no reason what so ever that they have to let us. If it is going to cost the TSA money for new training over a few thousand parachutes you will soon see parachutes illegal to take onboard an aircraft. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sunshine 2 #91 October 15, 2006 QuoteFor some reason i dont think there is enough parachute going through customs for them to bother spending millions of dollars on training and gear. My thoughts exactly. We as skydivers are such a small percentage of airline travelers. I honestly believe there is more to worry about than spending millions just to make us wee little skydivers happy. ___________________________________________ meow I get a Mike hug! I get a Mike hug! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #92 October 15, 2006 Right, just because we are skydivers and have letters explaining what a cypres is does not mean that we have a right to take a parachute on board a commercial flight. I am very suprised that we are allowed them on to begin with and think if people complain and moan to the authorities over iscolated incidents with reserves being opened that this privelage will be removed for good. If this letter michael is making a fuss over goes to a hearing or board or whatever have you could very well be the end of travelling with rigs. You dont complain about things when you are lucky to have it in the first place. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Froggy 0 #93 October 15, 2006 QuoteHi Froggy, You should consider sending that attachment to SKYDIVING Magazine with your other information. I would think that Mike Truffer would reprint/do an article on it. Jerry Well... To be honest, I don't think anything I posted would be worth a mag publication. Plus, I am not a subscriber to "Skydiving" and I don't know Mike... Besides that warning page that I attached, I didn't say anything that haven't been said before. I am sure that people who travel all over places with their gear have many more stories to tell, and more valuable tips to offer. And that warning was just something I came up with to let security people know what exactly they are dealing with, if I am not around for any reason (just how many non-skydivers would identify this funny-looking backpack with buckles and handles as a parachute?) Granted, someone can do a better job with wording and presentation (especially considering English is my second language ) If you or someone else feels it'd be worth publishing this thing somewhere, by all means please feel free to do it -- I don't hold a copyright on it. bigway QuoteIf this letter michael is making a fuss over goes to a hearing or board or whatever have you could very well be the end of travelling with rigs. You dont complain about things when you are lucky to have it in the first place. That's what I am thinking as well. Especially since TSA, strictly speaking, did absolutely nothing wrong... -------------- We were not born to fly. And all we can do is to try not to fall... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #94 October 15, 2006 Maybe he will see that too and realise that his actions could ruin it for us all. If we try to tell TSA that they are wrong and there training is not adrquate in parachutes, they may think "shit, you know what, we really dont know nothing about parachutes, so we should ban them until we do have the millions involved in training our staff for them" The guys rig got open, suck it up and move on. Lucky you are allowed it on your flight first class or not. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gravitational 0 #95 October 15, 2006 Quote bigway QuoteIf this letter michael is making a fuss over goes to a hearing or board or whatever have you could very well be the end of travelling with rigs. You dont complain about things when you are lucky to have it in the first place. That's what I am thinking as well. Especially since TSA, strictly speaking, did absolutely nothing wrong... the TSA did one major thing wrong - they admitted to their in-education in handling rigs with AADs. In other news... Another 'education' incident with the TSA in recent days. Friend flew down to Houston to hang out over the weekend. They had their 3.0 ounce can of shaving cream taken because it was larger than the 3 ounce allowed as carry on (and no, you are not reading the number wrong). Remember that I fly alot more than most and my exposure to the TSAs incompetence is more widespread.------ Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #96 October 15, 2006 Did you know you are not allowed shaving cream on flights at the moment? .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #97 October 15, 2006 rules are rules, from the tsa website... Know Before You Go Travel-size toiletries in a single, clear, one-quart plastic bag allowed. Just count yourself lucky yo are allowed 3 ounces of shaving cream, you are not allowed asthma inhalors, toothpaste, pain killers etc... They took the shaving cream off him cause it was not allowed on board over three ounces, the only incompetence here was your friends for not following rules. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gravitational 0 #98 October 15, 2006 Quote...the only incompetence here was your friends for not following rules. No...the incompetence is the TSA not following their own rules (and you need to read before responding). shaving cream was a 3 ounce travel size. The appropriate size allowed for carry on. Edit to add... (I think I need to clarify this for you...the travel size of shaving cream was 3.0 ounces. the memo the TSA person had for their reference read as 3 ounces which is obviously means that 3.0 ounces is greater than 3 because it has another number at the end )------ Michael Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 15 #99 October 15, 2006 Keep up with the current (although changing weekly) TSA Rules. You are allowed medication, toothpastes, painkillers, etc as long as they are in a container that can contain no more then 3 oz and then all these items needs to tossed into a 1 QT bag. I had the distinct pleasure of being trapped in O'hare for 4 hours this week so I sat and watched the TSA for probally an hour to see the procedures. If you take a large toothpaste tube it gets tossed, if you take a small travel size one you are fine. One of the ladies cleared security, opened her purse and then popped an advil so I know pain killers are allowed through. If the items are not in a 1 qt bag they get tossed, if they are in the bag they may run the bag through a couple of times rotating it a different way each pass until they are happy or make you toss it. One lady decided to go back and check her bag after they pulled out a large container of hairspray that was sticking out of the 1 gallon bag she attempted to use. I saw a guy get his perfectly allowed stuff thrown out since it was in a 1 gallon bag and not the 1 qt. TSA has some really weird rules and some times they make new ones up on the spot. My favorite one that I heard last week was "You are not allowed to take that many batteries on board" to a guy carrying a few laptop batteries in his computer case with an iPod. They made him go and check his unlocked laptop bag, I'm willing to bet his laptop or iPod was missing by the time he got to his distination Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigway 4 #100 October 16, 2006 I bought 4 packs of painkillers to take to the states with me as was going for a while and american pain killers do not contain codeine. These were hard tablets and they were no allowed on. Now leaving ohare they were but no gel painkillers or capsule pain killers were allowed on. i think all the allowed and not allowed on is rubbish but i count myself very lucky to be allowed my reserve on and will not be making formal complaints about what the staff do and do not know about my rig as i think we ahve it just the way us skydivers like it at the moment. Very easy it beomes to lose privellages these days with flights. .Karnage Krew Gear Store . Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
