Packing problems

[mjaconetta1 0]

Ok here it is i am ashamed to say i have been in the sport for a little over a year and the only packing i have done is for my A license. You see my DZ only charges $6 to pack and i had the attitude let someone who does that for a living do it rather then me and my 150 jumps a year. Untill the other day when a friend of mine went to Deland and for some reason their riggers didnt show up untill that afternoon and for him to keep jumping he packed on memory from a year ago. So i got thinking i better learn all over again. So here is my problem i have taken a refesher course and i can walk my lines out and flake no problem but when i look into my chute ABCD lines are just a blurr and i begin to get confused and second guess my self. I have watched pack like a pro about 100 times and my friends say i need to learn how to pro pack and not flat pack. I have a Sabre II 260( yes im a large guy) and it is new with about 100 jumps so it is still very slick. I thuoght i schould number line tabs but everyone says just do it. Does any one have any ideas on how to make this learning process go any smoother.
Michael
[email protected]

[airathanas 0]

Pay a packer to teach you. You'll end up saving a lot of money. You can do this on a windy/rainy day too.

As scary as packing can seem, it's actually quite easy. You just have to develop a routine and practice practice practice.

I'm a type of person who can see something take place or listen to someone tell me how to do it, but I can't learn it unless I do it myself.

http://3ringnecklace.com/

[councilman24 36]

Fill out your location in the profile and maybe we can help more.

My suggestion, pick one person to learn from and get one on one instruction. We used to teach folks at the DZ between loads or on wind or rain delays but these days everyone is too busy or unwilling to 'donate' some time back to the sport. But having one person show you, then someone else, or worse yet a committee, will be confusing and take longer.

So, if you have to pay someone, do it, hopefully you won't. But pick one person you trust, learn their way, learn it well, and then watch and learn about all the variation available.

One hint, when folding the canopy to put it in the bag, don't put your weight on it (with your knee or whatever). Put only enough force on it to hold it in place. In other words keep your weight on the knee not on the canopy and on set your other knee on it to hold it in place. Otherwise it squirts out all over. I have seen people able to put both knees on the canopy and s fold it into the bag but I can't do that with zp.

Second hint A,B,C, and D lines different lengths and are farther away from you (closer to the floor) respectively. So if they aren't the same length they don't go together.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[jojo69 0]

I know just what you mean. I also have a packer take care of me so I too have never learned to pack. I have a new rig with less than 50 jumps on it. I was told by my packers in Deland and again in S.C. that it is too slick for me to try yet. I should wait until the new gets knocked off first.

I often feel that I can not jump at new DZs because I do not know their packers. It is a problem and I know that I need to do something but I just do not jump often enough lately to find someone to teach me.

[tetra316 0]

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I was told by my packers in Deland and again in S.C. that it is too slick for me to try yet. I should wait until the new gets knocked off first.

That's bullshit. I had a new canopy at about 100 jumps. Sure it's harder but there's absolutely no reason you can't learn.

[jojo69 0]

They may have said that to keep me using them to do pack jobs for me but I truly beleive they were trying to keep my fustration to a minimum. I even had one packer refuse to pack for me because it took too long. I even offer to pay more because it meant that I could not jump but he said no and made me wait till the next day when the regular packer came back.

[GLIDEANGLE 1]

I used to have the same problem when packing.... I would look down at the canopy hanging from my shoulder and see nothing but chaos. I asked a VERY experienced rigger for guidance. His suggestion was WAY too easy. I will do my best to describe it:

After you have straightened all the cell noses (but before you stick them between your knees), swing them upward toward the ceiling.... this will pull the A-lines up and away from the others. Reach in and flake between the A&B lines. Now stick the cell noses between your knees.

Now you cheat by using the slider grommets... the B and C lines pass thru different grommets... so you can easily identify and flake between them.

Lasty are those confusing C & D lines (with those damn brake lines mixed in). I find that pulling the lines away from me helps them settle out into thier groups.

Hope that this helps.

(Of course, you could simply buy an Aerodyne Pilot with the color coded tapes!)

The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others!

[bloody_trauma 2]

shit, i can never make it to the DZ during the week to take a packing class, so that block remains unchecked on my proficiency card

Fly it like you stole it

[brucet7 0]

I took my Sabre 2 home and just packed it. I studied the lines and sorted the colors. Then I unpacked it, and packed it again. I wrestled and sweat, and after a while things began looking familiar and I could get it in the bag. Practice makes perfect.

POPS #10623; SOS #1672

[peregrinerose 0]

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I know just what you mean. I also have a packer take care of me so I too have never learned to pack. I have a new rig with less than 50 jumps on it. I was told by my packers in Deland and again in S.C. that it is too slick for me to try yet. I should wait until the new gets knocked off first.

I often feel that I can not jump at new DZs because I do not know their packers. It is a problem and I know that I need to do something but I just do not jump often enough lately to find someone to teach me.

This is pure laziness on your part and a total cop-out. You will never learn how to pack and do it well unless you get off your ass and do it. Yes, it will be frustrating at first. Yes, it may take you 2 hours to get the damn slippery fucker in the bag at first. But how do you honestly expect to know your gear and learn how to pack if you don't do it?

I started working as a packer almost as soon as I learned to pack. My first pack jobs were ugly as shit and it would take me 30 mins to pack even an easier F111 main, but after 20 pack jobs, I got a little quicker and more neat. After 100 pack jobs I was much neater and could pack just about anything thrown at me. Now I can pack even a slippery brand new ZP canopy just as adeptly as a beat old one.

My suggestion would be to quit making excuses and start putting a little effort toward knowing every aspect of this sport (ie your gear and how to maintain it) not just the freefall/canopy end of it. Pay a packer if you need to during the day, but take that last jump of every day and pack it yourself. Do it at the DZ with an instructor, packer, or rigger watching you and giving you pointers. Buy them a beer to say 'thanks', and then every day during the week, pack your rig one time. Just once. You may be up til 2am punching walls in frustration (not that I would know anything about that.... ) but you will improve very quickly.

Or you can just whine about not being able to pack on here. Whichever. Your choice.

Do or do not, there is no try -Yoda

[lippy 790]

Once you know how to pack, you can just stuff your shit into your gear bag after the last jump Sunday and get straight on to saying goodbyes, having one last beer with everybody before going back to the real world, whatever. That way it's less work on Sunday, and you can pack during the week which will give you something skydiving-related to do before going back to the DZ.

I always figured that if I wasted 10 minutes of my time packing on Sunday evening and then died in a wreck on the way home, that 10 minutes would've been wasted on a pack job I wouldn't get to use

I got nuthin

[Glitch 0]

Finally, a legitimate reason not to pack after the last load!

Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born...

[LongWayToFall 0]

A big help for me was looking at the slider grommets as others have said, when I pack I have the slider around the back of my neck and the grommets come around front and are easy to see. Also, getting the brake lines out of the way until you need them makes the D lines easier. Check out this video, it is way handy.

http://www.90percent.it/news/PDPacking.wmv

[danielcroft 2]

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I always figured that if I wasted 10 minutes of my time packing on Sunday evening and then died in a wreck on the way home, that 10 minutes would've been wasted on a pack job I wouldn't get to use

What if leaving 10 mins early got you killed? Heaven forbid of course but I found this very funny.

I started packing a little late in my student progression but I was packing my own gear. Just as I got off student status I messed up my thumb in the batting cage and *actually* couldn't pack (yes I could pull, it was only problematic at certain angles). My thumb's pretty much back to normal now though so I've been practicing and will start packing again. This Saturday is out though as I have a 4 way competition but Sunday I'm going to have to start packing again.

I can definitely relate to the "don't learn by committee" comment, bad way to learn & may cause arguments.

The DVD "Packing made simple" is actually very good too and may make some more sense. There's also a "PD Packing" video (Scott Miller) floating around on the web that might be useful, they do some things that are quite different to what I've seen (yes, very limited experience - 1 DZ) people do.

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A big help for me was looking at the slider grommets as others have said, when I pack I have the slider around the back of my neck and the grommets come around front and are easy to see. Also, getting the brake lines out of the way until you need them makes the D lines easier. Check out this video, it is way handy.

http://www.90percent.it/news/PDPacking.wmv

^^ there it is.

[kelpdiver 2]

Once you go a while without packing, you lose confidence and now you're reliant on packers, which at some DZs is a mild inconvenience, at others it's a killer for getting a reasonable jump day in. The suggestion to always do at least the first (or last) pack each day is definitely advisable. But to get back into it, you probably want to do at least two each day.

I traded a lift to the local DZs to a jumper new to town for some advise/lookover at his place on a weeknight. That jump day, a bit more q&a and I was ok again. But more recently, when I was out for a bit with a shoulder break, I didn't pack for the following year as the hand and shoulder strength was poor, and then I lost my way again. I had to just do it a few times at home until I got something half decent into the bag,

The 260 is probably pretty tough unless you're very tall. At 6', the 210 was the first one that was easy to hold over my shoulder without dangling on the ground. Those people with 150s or 120s forgot how much harder the big ones are (otoh, the big ones may be more tolerant of sloppy packing). Do you have access to a hook?

[pinkfairy 0]

Easy!

1. Get someone to show you how,

2. Do it many times.

Packing is easy, but practice, and only practice makes you a fast packer. Jumping your own pack jobs is better practice than just packing and taking it out again, because you'll feel for yourself what makes a good opening. Talking or thinking about it won't help, only practice.



PS the slider is important, as are straight lines, and not messing the whole thing up too much when you put it in the D-bag.

Relax, you can die if you mess up, but it will probably not be by bullet.

I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you?

[popsjumper 2]

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i can walk my lines out and flake (*I assume your are talking about the nose of the canopy here*) no problem but when i look into my chute ABCD lines are just a blurr and i begin to get confused and second guess my self.

Does any one have any ideas on how to make this learning process go any smoother.

Yes. This helped me easily see what I was doing and, more importantly, understand why we do what we do.

With respect to flaking, here's what flipped the switch ON for me...
The Two-shoulder method:

-When you walk up your lines, stay between them and put the lines in your left hand over your left shoulder. Put the lines in your right hand over your right shoulder.
This splits the canopy in half and makes finding your line groups very easy.

-Turn the entire canopy 90 degrees and flake the nose and put it between you legs. Now your canopy is back in its original orientation with the nose towards your body and the tail away from you.

-Put the slider up behind your head out of the way.

Flake one side and then the other like this...say right-side first:
-Starting from the right side nearest your body, pull the material out from in between all the stabilizer lines working your way from the nose to the tail. This will take you to your first steering line.

-Gather all the steering lines in your left hand (pulling the material out from between them as you go).

-With your left hand held out low and slightly away from your body so that none of the lines have any slack in them, look down and you will see the 4 different line lengths. The longest 4 are the D lines. The next longest the C, then B then A (4 of each on a 9-cell canopy).

-Gather all 4 D lines together and put them into your left hand with the steering lines.

-Use your right hand to gently (flake) push the material between the D and C lines out towards the outside of the canopy (to your right).
If you follow the seams from the all D lines back towards your body, you'll easily see that your C lines will be gathered up right there together.

-Gather up all 4 C lines and put them into your left hand and flake between the C and B lines.
(special note: There are 4 lines...do not gather up the stabilizer lines with it...no need for it and it confuses things)

-Gather the B lines and put them into your left hand and flake between the B and A lines.

-Lay all the lines in your left hand down directly on top of the A lines.

You've completed flaking the right-hand side.

If you gently pull out the stabilizer a little and look down in there you will see nice swirls of flaked material between the line groups.
Note some people (me for one) wrap that completed side gently with the stabilizer by gently taking the stabilizer in your right hand and bringing it over the completed flake job to the center cell and very softly tucking it around and under in the flaked cells. This helps hold things in place while you are flaking the other side.

-Repeat for the left side holding the lines in your right and and using your left hand to gather lines and gently flake to the outside. Be gentle and do not flake so hard that you pull out the material from the right-hand side that you've already completed. If you wrapped with the stabilizer on one side, keep it symetrical by doing the same on this side.

-Now bring the slider back over and quarter it.

-Now gather ALL the lines in one hand, the nose of the canopy in the other and step out from between them.

-Push the nose into the CENTER of the coned canopy.
Adjust (set) the nose of your slider.

-Bring up the tail and wrap the cone.

-Gather the tail around the canopy and roll it as desired being sure to keep the seams even and not getting any of the flaked canopy caught up in the roll.

-Lay it all down like a baby.

Now your on your own cocooning it and getting it in the bag....

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[mjaconetta1 0]

What is a hook

[Dumpster 0]

Like a letter T that hangs upside-down from the ceiling, to hang the canopy from vs. hanging everything over your shoulder. Not uncommon to see tandem canopies packed this way due to thier size.

Easy Does It

[pre7117 0]

I cant understand that you dont know how to pack. Not being good at it is one thing but not knowing how is just the fault of your instructors. I hate to pack and would rather rip my eyes out than pack but I do know how to pack and will pack when I need to. There is no reason you should not know how.

HELLFISH 429
POPS 11113

[tetra316 0]

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I cant understand that you dont know how to pack. Not being good at it is one thing but not knowing how is just the fault of your instructors. I hate to pack and would rather rip my eyes out than pack but I do know how to pack and will pack when I need to. There is no reason you should not know how.

At most larger dropzones you are only required to pack once for your A license. Whether you keep learning to pack or just get a packer after that is totally up to the jumper. You don't learn anything by doing it once. In my experience smaller dzs are much better at pushing the packing issue and spending more time teaching, most likely since they are not as busy. Larger dropzones tend to be more hectic and the student has to seek out help to learn. At some dropzones you are not even allowed to pack student/rental gear anyways, even if you do jump all day. If you don't buy your own gear till 50 or 100 jumps you never really learn till then and only if you actively seek the help.

[brucet7 0]

It was suggested already here, but find ONE person to show you. I got too much advice from too many different people and got confused.

Now that I am a little better, I listen to other people and add to or adjust what I do. I watched the video linked here and got some ideas.

POPS #10623; SOS #1672