billvon 2,400
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NWPoul 1
Quote>IMHO the safer way is static line exit with military round at ~100MPH
I've watched those exits, and they don't look safer to me!
May be this way "don't look", but it's work:)
Why drink and drive, if you can smoke and fly?
pirana 0
I think USPA should distance themselves from such stupidity; and the membership should vote to make sure we do not elect people who feel otherwise.
As someone mentioned, they can look to the FAA for their permissions. If the FAA says no I'd give a big:
"Duh, no shit!"
This appears to be a bunch of young egomaniacal hotshots who are so hungry for glory, fame, and cash they would put the public image of the sport on the line to get it.
If it was about personal challenge and accomplishment, they'd go off somewhere and quietly make it happen; then post the video. Instead, they want to do it for their sponsor and with a crowd. That says a lot.
As someone mentioned, they can look to the FAA for their permissions. If the FAA says no I'd give a big:
"Duh, no shit!"
This appears to be a bunch of young egomaniacal hotshots who are so hungry for glory, fame, and cash they would put the public image of the sport on the line to get it.
If it was about personal challenge and accomplishment, they'd go off somewhere and quietly make it happen; then post the video. Instead, they want to do it for their sponsor and with a crowd. That says a lot.
" . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley
I am curious about why they want this so bad...whats the bid deal ? anyone know? will this sell more drinks? will more people show up ? maybe, for a few times,,then it becomes old hat,,,,sounds goofy
smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083
FB # - 1083
chuckakers 370
QuoteQuoteMuch better than trying to use an airplane and having any potential errors associated with skydiving in general. BASE and skydiving are two separate sports. (Of course the public may not understand but I'm sure the FAA does.)
The FAA sees it as parachuting and and not two separate sports usually.
Huh? As far as I know, the FAA doesn't even recognize base jumping. No aircraft is used, no "certificated" parachute is required, and they have no regulatory authority over jumps from fixed objects.
Did I miss something somewhere?
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX
D-10855
Houston, TX
ozzy13 0
THIS IS THEIR REASONING
A Catalyst For Change: Group Sets Their Sights On The USPA Board of Directors
By Luke Seile
Mem No. 221735
Motivated by their passion for the sport and a common goal of making changes, a group of experienced skydivers have assembled to make a run at the USPA Board of Directors in the upcoming November election. “A group of us started to really notice the need to revisit and update a lot of the USPA rules and procedures,” said Charles Bryan , 17 year veteran of skydiving, former DZO and National Director Candidate.
With that in mind the core group began to reach out to other professionals and friends within the industry. What they found was a like-minded group of individuals, with varying backgrounds, wanting to help evolve the governing body of the sport. Through moderator Eli Thompson, co-creator of FlyBoyz and National Director Candidate , the group began to debate the important issues affecting the Skydiving Industry; three common goals began to immerge:
Rejuvenate the Board of Directors with a diverse group of qualified, motivated jumpers with varied experience in the industry.
Grow the sport. Work to bring in new participants, money and public attention to the sport.
Focus on education not regulation. Develop programs above and beyond the current “student status” to help advance the individual pilots skills while improving the safety and proficiency of the sport as a whole.
Eli Thompson explained, “What really drives our group is that we don’t want to see skydiving just scrape by and survive. We want to get in there and help the sport prosper.”
With concern for the health of the sport, the group has attracted individuals from across the United States. Each individual has their own focus but an overwhelming sense of urgency to work out different challenges facing the industry.
Current board member Jessie Farrington has a focus on individual jumpers stating, “If people want to stay in the air with as little interference as possible we need people [on the board] who are willing to make changes.”
Making changes to the regulations and procedures is what skydiving needs right now. Every year the sport evolves; from new equiptment and technology to more advanced flying: It is time that the rules that govern what we do evolve with it. The first step is actually voting for the people that you feel will do a good job advancing the sport.
“We need to go back to the roots of what the USPA Board of Directors was created for: It’s not about arguing, it’s about growth..” states Eric Deren who is running for a seat as National Director. Deren continues, “Over the past years, the USPA Board of Directors has had moments of greatness and moments of failure. We want to help create more moments of greatness.”
Candidates for change are:
National Board of Directors:
Eli Thompson
Charles Bryan
Mike Swanson
Jon DeVore
Luke Aikins
Kirk Verner
Eric Deren
Cisco Neri
Northwest:
Jessie Farrington
Pacific:
Chris Q
Western
Scott Smith
Central
Rook Nelson
South East
Kyle Stark
Mountain
Miles Daisher
Eastern
Brian Germain
A Catalyst For Change: Group Sets Their Sights On The USPA Board of Directors
By Luke Seile
Mem No. 221735
Motivated by their passion for the sport and a common goal of making changes, a group of experienced skydivers have assembled to make a run at the USPA Board of Directors in the upcoming November election. “A group of us started to really notice the need to revisit and update a lot of the USPA rules and procedures,” said Charles Bryan , 17 year veteran of skydiving, former DZO and National Director Candidate.
With that in mind the core group began to reach out to other professionals and friends within the industry. What they found was a like-minded group of individuals, with varying backgrounds, wanting to help evolve the governing body of the sport. Through moderator Eli Thompson, co-creator of FlyBoyz and National Director Candidate , the group began to debate the important issues affecting the Skydiving Industry; three common goals began to immerge:
Rejuvenate the Board of Directors with a diverse group of qualified, motivated jumpers with varied experience in the industry.
Grow the sport. Work to bring in new participants, money and public attention to the sport.
Focus on education not regulation. Develop programs above and beyond the current “student status” to help advance the individual pilots skills while improving the safety and proficiency of the sport as a whole.
Eli Thompson explained, “What really drives our group is that we don’t want to see skydiving just scrape by and survive. We want to get in there and help the sport prosper.”
With concern for the health of the sport, the group has attracted individuals from across the United States. Each individual has their own focus but an overwhelming sense of urgency to work out different challenges facing the industry.
Current board member Jessie Farrington has a focus on individual jumpers stating, “If people want to stay in the air with as little interference as possible we need people [on the board] who are willing to make changes.”
Making changes to the regulations and procedures is what skydiving needs right now. Every year the sport evolves; from new equiptment and technology to more advanced flying: It is time that the rules that govern what we do evolve with it. The first step is actually voting for the people that you feel will do a good job advancing the sport.
“We need to go back to the roots of what the USPA Board of Directors was created for: It’s not about arguing, it’s about growth..” states Eric Deren who is running for a seat as National Director. Deren continues, “Over the past years, the USPA Board of Directors has had moments of greatness and moments of failure. We want to help create more moments of greatness.”
Candidates for change are:
National Board of Directors:
Eli Thompson
Charles Bryan
Mike Swanson
Jon DeVore
Luke Aikins
Kirk Verner
Eric Deren
Cisco Neri
Northwest:
Jessie Farrington
Pacific:
Chris Q
Western
Scott Smith
Central
Rook Nelson
South East
Kyle Stark
Mountain
Miles Daisher
Eastern
Brian Germain
Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!
ozzy13 0
So my question is how is doing a jump from a plane and deploying at 400ft good for the sport? How would that better it? How would that bring more people into skydiving?
The other big question is are they doing it for the sport or their sponsors?
If something went wrong it really hurt us!
The other big question is are they doing it for the sport or their sponsors?
If something went wrong it really hurt us!
Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!
QuoteThis appears to be a bunch of young egomaniacal hotshots who are so hungry for glory, fame, and cash they would put the public image of the sport on the line to get it.
This theory has been tossed around this issue several times, and it really doesn't make sense.
All of the guys invovled have been jumping for 10 or 15 years, each with significant experience and accomplishments during that time. Many, many thousands of jumps, and many, many medals and other competition successes.
I think these guys are well aware that fame and fortune are not in their future if they intend to remain professional skydivers. If any jumpers were to rise to great heights (no pun intended) in the public eye it would be these guys. Freeflying, BASE jumping and swooping are all the things that would appeal to the general public, and more specificly the younger crowd that seems to set the tone for what's cool and relevant in todays society.
Of course we all know that fame hasn't happened, and I highly doubt that the persuit of such a goal is their motivation for trying to get on the BOD.
Lets face it, the BOD is mired down with a mix of old-shcool types, DZOs, and ex Knights. Change is both inevitable, and overdue. It's not the first 'changing of the guard' at the USPA or on the BOD, and it won't be the last.
If any bunch of guys are right for the job, this is it. They all have put in their time, and are the right choice to represent a new generation of jumper with a new generation of needs.
Now dumping out at 400ft on a demo is another story. I'm not sure how that enchnaces the show over, say, dumping at 800 ft. Both are low as hell, and both would allow for a nice run down the airshow flight line in a wingsuit from a 1500ft or 2000ft exit.
At the same time, I'm not the one with the experience and expertice they have. For example, I don't see how you can hop off a 250 ft cell tower with your PC still in the pouch, but I know guys who do it all the time.
An additional point to keep in mind is that the Red Bull guys have been doing all sorts of unusual, and high performance demos for years, and I cannot recall hearing of any incidents on those jumps. Conversely, the bulk of the demo incidents lately have been on 'traditional' demos with big canopies and conservative game plans.
QuoteAn additional point to keep in mind is that the Red Bull guys have been doing all sorts of unusual, and high performance demos for years, and I cannot recall hearing of any incidents on those jumps.
I agree with most of what you are saying but just wanted to point out there have been incidents.
http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=693618#693618
I have no problem with the glory hounds going big and making a name for themselves. The Red Bull Roster has some top talent on it.. But just Talent alone will not make a good BOD Member. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other.
USPA sanctioned 400 foot opening will not help our sport but will help promote the guys doing the jumps.
CygnusX-1 42
Anyone ever stop to think that the only reason that they want USPA sanctioned jumps is so that they can cash into the USPA insurance if something goes wrong?
My guess is that you can't collect on the insurance if the USPA does not sanction your jump.
My guess is that you can't collect on the insurance if the USPA does not sanction your jump.
ozzy13 0
QuoteAnyone ever stop to think that the only reason that they want USPA sanctioned jumps is so that they can cash into the USPA insurance if something goes wrong?
My guess is that you can't collect on the insurance if the USPA does not sanction your jump.
Isn't that just for property? How would that help them?
Never give the gates up and always trust your rears!
billvon 2,400
>Isn't that just for property?How would that help them?
Destroy a parked aircraft after a total mal, USPA pays.
Destroy a parked aircraft after a total mal, USPA pays.
SethInMI 145
QuoteAnyone ever stop to think that the only reason that they want USPA sanctioned jumps is so that they can cash into the USPA insurance if something goes wrong?
My guess is that you can't collect on the insurance if the USPA does not sanction your jump.
According a poster in the thread in the elections forum, the reason for getting a USPA waiver (and implied sanctioning) was because the FAA told them to get it.
I suppose the FAA's reasoning was "we don't know if this is a good idea or not. The USPA knows parachuting, so if they say it is ok, then it is ok with us"
If that is the case, the Red Bull team is stuck either trying to get the FAA to go back on its USPA waiver request or trying to get the USPA waiver.
It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".
Check you email.
Sparky
Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals
DougH 270
Quote>Isn't that just for property?How would that help them?
Destroy a parked aircraft after a total mal, USPA pays.
Demo's aren't covered by our insurance? If this got the green light I would hope the same policy would apply to these waivered stunt jumps.
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P
=P
billvon 2,400
>Demo's aren't covered by our insurance?
Demos are often covered by additional insurance specifically to cover demo-related issues (like injuries to spectators.) The bigger demos I've done have had large liability insurance policies, on the order of $2 million.
In that case I don't know what USPA's liability would be. (Although I would worry that if anything really bad happened, they'd be next in line for the lawyers.)
Demos are often covered by additional insurance specifically to cover demo-related issues (like injuries to spectators.) The bigger demos I've done have had large liability insurance policies, on the order of $2 million.
In that case I don't know what USPA's liability would be. (Although I would worry that if anything really bad happened, they'd be next in line for the lawyers.)
DougH 270
Quote>Demo's aren't covered by our insurance?
Demos are often covered by additional insurance specifically to cover demo-related issues (like injuries to spectators.) The bigger demos I've done have had large liability insurance policies, on the order of $2 million.
In that case I don't know what USPA's liability would be. (Although I would worry that if anything really bad happened, they'd be next in line for the lawyers.)
Yes I agree, but I thought there was a specific exclusion on demo coverage by the uspa insurance. Right or wrong?
"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P
=P
Doesn't Redbull already have their own insurance for demos and events though? Unless I am thinking about somthing else the topic came up when talking about Bridge Day a few years back.
"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero
>>You go girl!
NWFlyer 2
QuoteYes I agree, but I thought there was a specific exclusion on demo coverage by the uspa insurance. Right or wrong?
You are correct. From the USPA web site:
http://www.uspa.org/USPAMembers/Membership/Services/tabid/91/Default.aspx
QuoteUSPA third-party liability insurance
Third-party liability insurance comes with membership. All USPA individual members, regular or temporary, have coverage for property damage and bodily injury liability insurance in accordance with all the terms and conditions of the policy. The third-party liability insurance does not cover medical benefits to the member. This insurance is valid for skydives made in accordance with USPA's Basic Safety Requirements and the Federal Aviation Regulations. Most drop zones assure that jumpers have this type of insurance by requiring current USPA membership to jump there. All claims must be brought in the U.S. or Canada. To report a claim, call (866) 585-4590.
Third-party liability insurance that comes with USPA membership does not cover members performing exhibition or demonstration jumps, as defined by the Skydiver's Information Manual. Special insurance is available for qualified jumpers (see below).
USPA demonstration jump insurance
USPA members can obtain insurance for exhibition jumps at an additional cost. If you have questions or need additional details on demonstration jump insurance, call (866) 585-4590 or click here for additional information and demonstration jump forms.
To Bill's point, I'm not entirely convinced that in our litigious society that, if USPA approved a waiver for 400-foot demos (thus giving organizational "sanction") and something went horribly awry, that USPA could protect itself from liability (even if its insurance company were off the hook). At the very least, I'm guessing the lawyers would come calling; even if USPA were able to prove itself not liable, the cost of defending said claim could be high.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke
I've watched those exits, and they don't look safer to me!
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