USPA Collegiate Nationals is no longer allowing grad students to compete

[kwoody 0]

Please sign this petition so civilian skydiving can keep growing! By not allowing grad students to compete, they are just turning away the younger generation of jumpers, which is already decreasing because of rising costs. Don't punish the civilian skydivers!

http://www.petitiononline.com/USPAGRAD/petition.html

Kelli Wood

[airtwardo 6]

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Please sign this petition so civilian skydiving can keep growing! By not allowing grad students to compete, they are just turning away the younger generation of jumpers, which is already decreasing because of rising costs. Don't punish the civilian skydivers!

http://www.petitiononline.com/USPAGRAD/petition.html

Done, I'm #21 on the list~ I urge everyone to sign...it's only fair....& good luck!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[grannyinthesky 0]

Done. #27

"safety first... and What the hell.....
safety second, Too!!! " ~~jmy

POPS #10490

[LuckyMcSwervy 0]

Done. #30.

Good luck!!

Always be kinder than you feel.

[airathanas 0]

#31

Not allowing grad student - what are they not college students????

http://3ringnecklace.com/

[rlucus 0]

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#31

Not allowing grad student - what are they not college students????

I've known a few to be upset if someone describes them as being in college. They are in "Graduate School"

[elightle 8]

#49

[Glitch 0]

#67

Randomly f'n thingies up since before I was born...

[MakeItHappen 15]

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Please sign this petition so civilian skydiving can keep growing! By not allowing grad students to compete, they are just turning away the younger generation of jumpers, which is already decreasing because of rising costs. Don't punish the civilian skydivers!

http://www.petitiononline.com/USPAGRAD/petition.html

Wow...
I can't believe that rule change made it.
It was done at the winter 09 mtg, so I had nothing to do with it. ;)
I was at that mtg, but do not recall that change being mentioned, not as it is here:

Quote

SECTION 7: COLLEGIATES (Johnson)
The committee discussed Section 7-1.7C1 and changed it to read: 1. Individual Accuracy Landing. This is
for clarity only and no motion was necessary. The committee also discussed the following items: not
allowing graduate students to compete at the Collegiate Nationals; the fact that some competitors
are not comfortable with existing exit altitudes for Sport Accuracy and Formation Skydiving;
making scoring consistent while still allowing for different tuffet sizes; not requiring a star as the
first formation in 2 and 4-way FS; and finally tie breaking procedures. The following motion
resulted:
Motion 26: 0/0/0 (Johnson)
“Move to make following changes to SCM Section 7:
a. Section 7-1.2A3a to read: …fulltime undergraduate student …
b. Section 7-1.5C from 3,200 feet to 4000 feet
c. Section 7-1.5D from 10,500 feet to 11,500 feet.
d. Section 7-1.8F1b to read: Accuracy Landing is measured to two meters.
e. Section 7-1.10B1 to read: Working time starts the moment of the first separation of a
grip from the first draw formation…
f. Section 7-1.17B to read. If a tie still occurs, the competitor with the best score in any
one round obtains the higher place.
g. Section 7-1.17C to read: If a tie still occurs, the competitor with the best score starting
with the last completed round and continuing in reverse order, round by round until the tie is
broken, obtains the higher place.”

Note that the vote count is 0/0/0. Wonder why that is???

Anyway, I competed as a GRADUATE student in collegiates in 1986 in 4-way.
My teammates were Greg Gasson, Jeff Root and Eve Burgey.
IIRC, we came in 2nd and we even successfully launched a bipole exit from a C-182.
We were the only team to do that.

I think this will be easy to change back.
What you need to do is get the Executive Committee (EC) to make an interim motion.
Here's how it works.
You send your request to the Prez.
eg "Please delete the word 'undergraduate' from SCM Section 7-1.2A3a"
The Prez sends this request off to the Comp Comm chair.
The comp comm chair then asks the comp comm to discuss and vote on it.
Their vote is passed back to the Prez, along with comments (pro/con).
The Prez then requests that the EC discuss and vote on the issue.
Usually, but not always, the prevailing vote by the comm is how the EC votes.

My feeling is that there will be a lot of support to allow grad students to compete.
Email everyone on the BOD to find out.
Keep in mind that there are some on the BOD that refuse to answer emails from members, especially when sent to all BOD members. They need the 'special' hand holding of a personal email addressed to only them to consider giving a reply.
Anyway you can use uspabod_AT_skydivehard.com to send email to the entire board.
Replace _AT_ with @
Or you can overload the Prez. I'm sure he'll appreciate it. ;)
It pays to talk to more than one director.

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.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[JohnDeere 0]

Number 85.

Nothing opens like a Deere!

You ignorant fool! Checks are for workers!

[wildcard451 0]

#97

[SivaGanesha 2]

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Please sign this petition so civilian skydiving can keep growing! By not allowing grad students to compete, they are just turning away the younger generation of jumpers, which is already decreasing because of rising costs. Don't punish the civilian skydivers!

http://www.petitiononline.com/USPAGRAD/petition.html

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment--it seems at least plausible (I don't claim to know whether this happens in practice) that there are grad students who may have an unfair advantage because they have FAR more skydiving experience than undergrads .

Skydiving isn't like bowling or golf where anyone can start at almost any age and even an undergrad may have a lot of experience. In skydiving, for legal reasons, usually one can't start until one is 18--which roughly corresponds to the beginning of college.

So a college senior has at most 4 years of skydiving experience. OTOH someone in the 6th year of a PhD program may have 10 years of skydiving experience. And in this sport experience definitely matters. Doesn't that give the grad student a HUGE (and perhaps unfair) advantage over the undergrad?

Again--I don't know if this is a common scenario or not. And I agree that helping to encourage a younger generation is very important. I'm just trying to understand the other point of view before I cast my vote--and I could certainly see that if perennial grad/PhD students tend to dominate the Collegiate Nationals, it would be discouraging for the undergrads.

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[Airgump 1]

number 99

seems like uspa hasn't changed much with the "new" management at the helm, thinking no further than their own wants/needs.

forrest, forrest gump

[MakeItHappen 15]

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Quote

Please sign this petition so civilian skydiving can keep growing! By not allowing grad students to compete, they are just turning away the younger generation of jumpers, which is already decreasing because of rising costs. Don't punish the civilian skydivers!

http://www.petitiononline.com/USPAGRAD/petition.html

Just to play devil's advocate for a moment--it seems at least plausible (I don't claim to know whether this happens in practice) that there are grad students who may have an unfair advantage because they have FAR more skydiving experience than undergrads .

Skydiving isn't like bowling or golf where anyone can start at almost any age and even an undergrad may have a lot of experience. In skydiving, for legal reasons, usually one can't start until one is 18--which roughly corresponds to the beginning of college.

So a college senior has at most 4 years of skydiving experience. OTOH someone in the 6th year of a PhD program may have 10 years of skydiving experience. And in this sport experience definitely matters. Doesn't that give the grad student a HUGE (and perhaps unfair) advantage over the undergrad?

Again--I don't know if this is a common scenario or not. And I agree that helping to encourage a younger generation is very important. I'm just trying to understand the other point of view before I cast my vote--and I could certainly see that if perennial grad/PhD students tend to dominate the Collegiate Nationals, it would be discouraging for the undergrads.

That is all covered with these rules:

Quote

B. To be declared ineligible to compete, a competitor
must have achieved all three of the following:
1. Be less than 25 years old at the time of the meet
2. Made his or her first jump more than five years
prior to the competition
3. Made more than 1,000 freefall skydives
Note: Any competitor who intentionally violates the spirit of
this rule may be barred from future National Collegiate
competition.

I'll add in that I was not a jumper as an undergrad or even when working on my MS.
I became a jumper after the MS and before entering a PhD program.

.

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Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[SivaGanesha 2]

Quote

That is all covered with these rules:

Quote

B. To be declared ineligible to compete, a competitor
must have achieved all three of the following:
1. Be less than 25 years old at the time of the meet
2. Made his or her first jump more than five years
prior to the competition
3. Made more than 1,000 freefall skydives
Note: Any competitor who intentionally violates the spirit of
this rule may be barred from future National Collegiate
competition.

I'll add in that I was not a jumper as an undergrad or even when working on my MS.
I became a jumper after the MS and before entering a PhD program.

.

But if I'm reading it correctly, a grad student (under the old rules) over 25 years of age would ALWAYS be eligible. This doesn't seem quite fair--although I agree that making all grad students ineligible seems an overreaction.

Not only PhD students but also 40 year old MBA students returning to school after 20 years in the workforce would also have been eligible under the old rules.

Unlike many sports, a 40 year old with 20 years active skydiving experience is almost always going to be a better jumper than a 20 year old with limited jump numbers--or am I wrong in saying that?

"It's hard to have fun at 4-way unless your whole team gets down to the ground safely to do it again!"--Northern California Skydiving League re USPA Safety Day, March 8, 2014

[MakeItHappen 15]

Quote

Quote

That is all covered with these rules:

Quote

B. To be declared ineligible to compete, a competitor
must have achieved all three of the following:
1. Be less than 25 years old at the time of the meet
2. Made his or her first jump more than five years
prior to the competition
3. Made more than 1,000 freefall skydives
Note: Any competitor who intentionally violates the spirit of
this rule may be barred from future National Collegiate
competition.

I'll add in that I was not a jumper as an undergrad or even when working on my MS.
I became a jumper after the MS and before entering a PhD program.

.

But if I'm reading it correctly, a grad student (under the old rules) over 25 years of age would ALWAYS be eligible. This doesn't seem quite fair--although I agree that making all grad students ineligible seems an overreaction.

Not only PhD students but also 40 year old MBA students returning to school after 20 years in the workforce would also have been eligible under the old rules.

Unlike many sports, a 40 year old with 20 years active skydiving experience is almost always going to be a better jumper than a 20 year old with limited jump numbers--or am I wrong in saying that?

You are not reading the rules correctly.
If you are over 25, been jumping more than 5 years and have more than 1000 jumps you cannot compete in collegiates.
You have to meet all 3 of those conditions.
The rules have never distinguished between undergrad or grad student.

.

.
Make It Happen
Parachute History
DiveMaker

[AggieDave 6]

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Unlike many sports, a 40 year old with 20 years active skydiving experience is almost always going to be a better jumper than a 20 year old with limited jump numbers--or am I wrong in saying that?

The last time I went to collegiates I had around 1000 jumps or so. There was an 18yr old that had over triple that amount there.

Under 1000 jumps and the other old conditions was really fair. College is college for collegiates, regardless of degree plan. What next? You have to be at a 4-year school studying an engineering degree? No liberal arts majors? Maybe in a couple more years, it will be military academies only...

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[skydveraz 0]

#110 Done.

Arizona only has two seasons, Hot and HOTTER!

[Jcoff89 0]

im number 2. just want to bring an interesting point to light: the academy teams are ONLY undergrad. last minute attempt for them to 'level the playing field?' maybe..... very possible? too bad they dont make a rule saying everyone else gets complete full sponsorship from the taxpayers..... ya know, just to level the playing field? i mean we have to be fair....

http://www.turboskydiving.com

[jasides 0]

I was one of the kids at collegiates that was 18years old with 1500 jumps, and i did not use that to my advantage. I was always bringing a 4way team of which i was a member and a coach. I liked coaching the younger jumpers. I competed for 5 years and over those years my team mates changed every year and each member of my teams had less than 100 jumps. My goal was to further the sport and teach the younger skydivers what competition was all about.

Blue Skies,
Jamie

[indyz 1]

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You are not reading the rules correctly.
If you are over 25, been jumping more than 5 years and have more than 1000 jumps you cannot compete in collegiates.
You have to meet all 3 of those conditions.
The rules have never distinguished between undergrad or grad student.

I'm interpreting the logic of those rules the same as SivaGanesha. I see the intent, but I think that as you quoted them any full-time student 25 or older would be eligible to compete.

if ( (age < 25) && (yearsSinceFirstJump > 5) && (skydives > 1000) )

ineligible;

else

eligible;

[Happick 0]

I believe they changed the wording this year in order to 'clarify' the rule, but they ended up writing the rule wrong. The wording in the May 2008 edition of the Skydiver's Competition Manual read:

B. To be declared ineligible to compete, a competitor must have achieved all three of the following:
1. Be more than 24 years old at the time of the
meet
2. Made his or her first jump more than five years
prior to the competition
3. Made more than 1,000 freefall skydives


This year, the wording in the May 2009 edition was changed to:

B. To be declared ineligible to compete, a competitor
must have achieved all three of the following:
1. Be less than 25 years old at the time of the meet
2. Made his or her first jump more than five years
prior to the competition
3. Made more than 1,000 freefall skydives

This completely reverses the meaning of the age restriction, which I don't think was their intent. The goal was to clarify if the wording 'more than 24 years old' means a person who is 24 years old is eligible or not (technically, immediately after your 24th birthday, you are 'older' than 24).

...another thing they need to change.

[lost_n_confuzd 0]

#104

[AggieDave 6]

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the wording 'more than 24 years old' means a person who is 24 years old is eligible or not (technically, immediately after your 24th birthday, you are 'older' than 24

Not really a problem. If you're used to reading legalize, you understand that the original wording limits the age to the change of the YEAR of your age. Thus, once you turn 25, that portion of the statute was invoked.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[quade 3]

Help me understand something I never have; why do the USPA Collegiate Nationals even exist?

I'm not just pissing in your corn flakes here. I really don't understand why they just aren't folded into the regular Nationals and play by the exact same rules.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver