Are boogies safe for students?

[Inspired 0]

I'd like to make some AFP jumps during Summerfest at SDC, but I'm a little worried about jumping with so many other canopies in the air. With 4 Otters and a Skyvan dropping jumpers, is it safe for students like me?

[kallend 1,623]

There will not be 5 plane loads of jumpers in the air at all times. In between big-way loads it will be much quieter.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Reaperwear 0]

SDC has great instructors I think you should address your concerns with them and they will be best to advise you. They know your skill level and know best what's going on during the boogie.

I refuse to tiptoe through life, only to arrive safely at death. www.reaperwear.com

[futuredivot 0]

either my 52nd or 53rd jump was at WFFC 2004 but I was lucky enough to be with some very experienced jumpers that walked me through the hazards and kept me from getting in over my head.

Probably the most important rule they gave me "If the 50 cool people are landing here, go land over there with the 5 smart people.

You are only as strong as the prey you devour

[IanHarrop 37]

Good articles here:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/safety/page.cgi?g=safety%2FBoogie_Safety%2Findex.shtml

They may be dated but still good to read, especially the WFFC one. It applies to all boogies.

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[Skydivesg 6]

Check with your instructors. They will surely know what is safe or not.

My guess is; they will let you jump. You'll get out just before the tandems and open much higher than all the other canopies on your load so they should not be a factor for you. The other planes usually have several minutes of seperation.

And if you land on the south end of the landing area you'll be about 1/4 mile from most other landing canopies.

Check with the SDC school though because my opinion really means nothing. It's just MHO.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[jumpwally 0]

I say ,NO ! Booggies are for people with experience, be patient, and you should be nervous. Go to the booggie and hang out and party and just observe,you will be amazed....

smile, be nice, enjoy life
FB # - 1083

[davelepka 4]

Have you been cleared to self jumpmaster? If not, then you should be fine. The instructional staff will be there to take care of the logistics, and I would be surprised if they did not take care to time your jumps when there is only one load in the air, and have you land in a specific area, most likely at the far end of the field.

If you really think about it, without the guidance and oversight of your instructors, no student jumps would safe. Just like you count on them to watch out for you on a regualr weekend, you should be able to do likewise at a boogie. If you have any concerns about the situation in general, do what you would normally do and speak up, and if your instructors cannot explain things to your satisfaction, simply decline to jump at that time.

[rlucus 0]

Give your instructors a break and just enjoy the party. They will appreciate the chance to get in more fun jumps...

[jimmytavino 16]

if it is a Boogie at your Home DZ, the place where have logged all your jumps and the place that is familiar to you, then just notch up your awareness , pay attention to what could be a faster pace, and use it as a learning experience.

If it is a Non Familar Dz and a Boogie, somewhere "outta town", then i'd be a bit more careful...
certainly go, and enjoy, but depending on your jump numbers and whether you've achieved an A Lic. yet, or not.... your chances of making " many , many jumps" might be limited...
still, there are lots of things to enjoy and lots of things to learn at such events, and lets not forget,, lots of friends to meet"...

as for safe???
safety is usually conditional. Paying attention and understanding the weather and air conditions, and following the instructors guidelines, becoming comfortable with our gear and reviewing procedures, all help to insure safety every time we make a jump.


jt
A 3914
4 stack 930

[JoeQ.Public 0]

You should be fine if you listen to your instructors. It's usually the experienced people who hurt and kill themselves and others at boogies. I'm sure your instuctors will separate you from the masses.

Very soon, an honest person will not be able to sing the last 2 lines of our National Anthem:::Practice safe dining....use condiments

[DJL 232]

Boogies aren't even safe for up jumpers, it's where everyone either shows off and gets confuse. Hell, Nationals isn't even safe for up jumpers. Also, don't think that just because it's SDC that it's safer.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[Andy9o8 0]

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You should be fine if you listen to your instructors. It's usually the experienced people who hurt and kill themselves and others at boogies. I'm sure your instuctors will separate you from the masses.

I think one of the enhanced risks at boogies is that of canopy collisions. Once the AFF student deploys, he's basically on his own, instructors notwithstanding. Maintaining 360/all axes awareness of canopy traffic is an acquired skill, and is hard enough for a new student who's still learning how to do it. At a boogie at an unfamiliar DZ, the student just might be one of the "others" who gets taken out by the experienced jumper. For that reason, I'm not really all that comfortable with AFF students jumping at the larger, busier boogies, unless very student-specific measures are taken by the instructors/DZ to offset this enhanced risk.

[rehmwa 2]

A boogie used to be where people could go and jump a bigger plane like an Otter, or a Skyvan

so here's an opinion


take a bunch of cessna jumpers not used to more that 4 other people in the sky and put them out with 22 people worth of traffic - for the hell of it make a couple of them drunk, high, stupid, or some combination of the 3, and take 6 more that think it's their right to swoop every single jump they make

safe for the student? hell, not safe for the up jumpers - but at least the up jumper understands his risks

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[skymama 35]

When a boogie is hopping, the planes will go off within a few minutes of each other. So, if you're one of the last out and pulling high on plane #1, you could find yourself under canopy with people on plane #2. Are you ready for the extra traffic you might encounter?

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[jcbfly 1]

I took SDC's "A License in a week" course during Summerfest 2006 and had an incredibly rewarding experience. I made 32 jumps that week and drove home with a brand new A license. Yes, there are additional distractions, but my Instructors made sure that I stayed focused. I say go for it!

[Inspired 0]

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There will not be 5 plane loads of jumpers in the air at all times. In between big-way loads it will be much quieter.

Would weekdays be a better time to jump?

[Inspired 0]

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When a boogie is hopping, the planes will go off within a few minutes of each other. So, if you're one of the last out and pulling high on plane #1, you could find yourself under canopy with people on plane #2. Are you ready for the extra traffic you might encounter?

This is exactly what I'm worried about. The bigways don't scare me. In fact, I've already had the privelege of jumping on a two plane bigway load when SDC was doing trials for the heads down world record attempt. There was room left for four of us on one of the planes, so two experienced FF jumpers, my instructor, and I got to ride on that load. There were some strange looks and questions from some of the other jumpers on the load when they saw that I was obviously a student, but my instructor cooly explained to them that heads down bigways were now part of the AFP level 9. It was awesome watching the other plane out my window as both planes emptied out in what seemed like an instant. Plus, by the time I got out of the plane and under canopy, I knew I was the only person left in the sky. There weren't even any tandems following me.

So, yeah... I'm most worried about planes leaving just minutes apart, and finding myself under canopy with the experienced jumpers from the plane after me. I guess if they put me on a load full of tandems, I'll at least have a little more of a buffer.

FYI... yes, SDC is my home DZ. I only have 5 solo jumps so far. A minor back injury (not from skydiving), weather, and a tough work schedule have kept me from jumping for the last five weeks. So I'm starting to fear that I've forgotten stuff already. I really don't want to put off jumping any more, but I don't want to jump if it's not safe. But, I am starting to develop a plan, based on all the responses so far. A big THANKS to everyone for the replies!

[djta0707 0]

Just my 2 cents: If you have to ask others is it safe then its probably not safe. Last year I chose not to go to Skyfest b/c I didnt want to put myself or others in any danger. I attended Skyfest this year and after attending I would have to say that ( for a student)a big boogie might not be the best place to jump. No matter how good your instructor is or how much information they can give you, when you are in the air with alot of other canopies you can get distracted very easily and start making bad decisions. There will always be a next boogie. Be careful out there.

[kallend 1,623]

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There will not be 5 plane loads of jumpers in the air at all times. In between big-way loads it will be much quieter.

Would weekdays be a better time to jump?

If the past is anything to go by, then yes, it will be quieter.

Also remember that the landing area is huge and the cool people and swoopers land at the north end by the hangar. If you stay to the south you will be over 1/2 mile from the crowd.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[Andy9o8 0]

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I took SDC's "A License in a week" course during Summerfest 2006 and had an incredibly rewarding experience. I made 32 jumps that week and drove home with a brand new A license. Yes, there are additional distractions, but my Instructors made sure that I stayed focused. I say go for it!

If you're a new student, "staying focused", in and of itself, is not sufficient to offset the enhanced risk of jumping at a busy boogie. Newer jumpers all too often let themselves get lulled into thinking "I did it and got away with it; therefore it must be fine." That's a dangerous mindset.

[popsjumper 2]

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[...Newer jumpers all too often let themselves get lulled into thinking "I did it and got away with it; therefore it must be fine." That's a dangerous mindset.

Good stuff, Andy. That also applies to the more experienced, too...and IMHO, even more so.

To the OP:
It was mentioned above that jumping during the week when it's less crowded would be a better idea than getting mixed up in the heavy air traffic on the weekend. I concur.
On the ground watching what's happening during heavy traffic hours would be a good learning opportunity.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[ladydyver 0]

FYI... yes, SDC is my home DZ. I only have 5 solo jumps so far. A minor back injury (not from skydiving), weather, and a tough work schedule have kept me from jumping for the last five weeks. So I'm starting to fear that I've forgotten stuff already. I really don't want to put off jumping any more, but I don't want to jump if it's not safe. But, I am starting to develop a plan, based on all the responses so far. A big THANKS to everyone for the replies!

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The fact that your not current would be another factor to consider -- if you haven't jumped in 5 weeks is jumping at a boogie the best time to get back in the air?

I certainly understand the frustration of not getting through to the A-license as planned as I live in the pacific northwest and weather is always an issue here.

just another thing to think about -

DPH # 2
"I am not sure what you are suppose to do with that, but I don't think it is suppose to flop around like that." ~Skootz~
I have a strong regard for the rules.......doc!

[Fast 0]

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There will not be 5 plane loads of jumpers in the air at all times. In between big-way loads it will be much quieter.

Would weekdays be a better time to jump?

Probably your best bet actually.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[Inspired 0]

Well, I skipped Summerfest last weekend because I figured any new out-of-towners wouldn't have had much chance to familiarize themselves with the DZ yet. So, I figured to go during the week, so there'd also be fewer jumpers, but I didn't make it out till today (Friday). I fully intended to jump, thinking that my instructors would be able to ensure my safety, but I ended up changing my mind.

There were a lot of firsts for me today.

1. The coolest first was seeing a new world record being made.

2. A less cool first was seeing a couple near collisions under canopy. At least they appeared too close to me, but I am a rookie.

3. First time seeing someone almost land on the roof of the hanger. He didn't quite make it to the landing area.

4. First time seeing someone land on the parking lot side of the hanger. I didn't see anyone hurt afterward, and it was one of the bigway attempts, so I assume it was a very experienced jumper who either landed on the road or made it to the grassy area.

5. First time seeing 4 jumpers on a single load land out. I imagine this does happen often enough though.

6. First time seeing an Otter dropping jumpers while the load before was still landing. This is what had me spooked the most. I'm not sure if they actually had all 5 Otters flying in rotation, but it sure seemed that way to me. (Yes, they had 5 Otters. 2 from SDC, 2 from Spaceland, and 1 from Deland. The Skyvan stayed parked all day.)

7. And the most uncool first for me was seeing an ambulance on the DZ. Someone was injured at the far southwest corner of the landing area. I imagine we'll read about it in the incident forum if it was serious, but the impression I got was that it wasn't too terrible.

So, between some of the cautionary advice given here, and some of the craziness I witnessed, I chickened out. I realize that overall, especially for experienced jumpers, it was a great day. From what I've heard from talking to people, it's been a VERY successful boogie. It was just a little too much for me. I may try to make it out again on Sunday, but I won't decide whether to jump till I get there.

Big thanks to everyone for the advice!