Door operation tips

[Misternatural 0]

Sometimes depending on the load you end up nearest to the door. Working the door on the ground and air is an important responsibility in this sport. Different planes and doors require different techniques. Some designs have special quirks. Please post some tips for different aircraft and flight modes so that noobs like me know what to expect when visiting other DZ's or flying in unfamiliar aircraft.... I've gotten yelled at a few times already,even at my own DZ. for awkward handling of the situation.

For example at "DOOR!" time in the Cessnas I try to put a few fingers in the latch strap loop so it does not slip away when the door hits the prop blast.

thanks in advance

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[Morrison79 0]

DONT SLAM THE DOOR!

[skymama 35]

I refuse to do the Skyvan door. I'm skeered of falling out!

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[peek 20]

Good topic.

For small Cessna's with passenger doors, you can include this in spotting instruction. If there is an opportunity with the airplane on the ground you can put the student inside to practice operating the latch, and you can stay outside and try to "act like the wind", pulling the door up suddenly like the wind would when the door is first opened. The student is startled on the ground, but then is much less so when they first open a door in flight.

For all aircraft we must emphasize checking our gear and watching for other jumper's gear before the door is opened and when they are moving around after the door is opened. This is when pilot chutes and bags are more likely to fall out of the rigs and can get outside the aircraft.

For aircraft with roll-up door, when opening the door for ventilation on the way up, you must insure that every jumper anywhere near the door has removed their seatbelt BEFORE the door is opened (more than a few inches). If a bag gets out the door it could take down the entire aircraft. (I'm actually surprised this had never happened.)

Every aircraft with roll-up door should post their policy and procedures on opening the door for ventilation.

[councilman24 36]

At some (many?) Cessna DZ's the PILOT opens the door. I don't much care for this because it may be early, I may not be ready, the student may not be warned, the rest of the load may not be warned.

But, some DZ owners/pilots want this. Be aware.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[jsreznor 0]

Easy for Otters.

Right before takeoff, close the door.
DO NOT SLAM THE DOOR
1000ft - check for seatbelts off....open the door all the way
6000ft - close door until jump run
DO NOT SLAM THE DOOR
In case of stinky fart, crack the door open
Door light goes on, open the door all the way. Start spotting for yourself.
Green light - take your sweet assed time for all the people who yelled at you in the plane about operating the door. Jump, pull, and set the landing direction.

[Tolgak 0]

Scream "BAIL BAIL BAIL!!!" Someone else will have the door opened shortly.

Problem solved.

Dropzones are terrible places for inspiration. What does one think when one looks up for a sign only to see a bunch of people falling?

[lost_n_confuzd 0]

What if the door-man is the one who farted? Does the door get cracked? If so, who cracks it?

[rehmwa 2]

Quote

1000ft - check for seatbelts off....open the door all the way

don't open the door at any altitude you aren't comfortable pulling your main (no matter how much the TMs complain about the heat)

don't crack the door such that a pilot chute can get out but you can't

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[normiss 622]

in Florida when it's 100 degrees, please place a foot in the door from takeoff to 1000ft!!!
jeebus it's hot in there.
after 1000ft, open it ALL the way...ALL the way. It's hot as fuck in the front of the aircraft where the worker bees sit. Don't really mind if you leave it open to around 7000 ft even. It's HOT AS FUCK in the plane this time of year.
Don't slam the door, and watch those fingers!!!
Saw a cutie clip her fingers this weekend. Thankfully, not bad.

[PhreeZone 15]

Opening the door depends on the DZ's local policy. Not all DZ's want the door opened all the way since it can impact the climb speeds and that impacts how much fuel is used. Besides it works a lot better to have the pilots window opened to cool down the tandem instructors then it does to open the door at the tail, the breeze blows right on you. Also most DZ's around here want the door all the way shut for take off so if there is an emergency the open door is not presenting extra drag that the pilot has to fight against in the middle of a high pressure situation.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[davelepka 4]

Quote

Sometimes depending on the load you end up nearest to the door. Working the door on the ground and air is an important responsibility in this sport. Different planes and doors require different techniques.

You are correct on all points.

The solution to this is simple. Unless you have recieved a complete briefing from a DZ employee on the procudres for opening and closing the door and the policies for when and how far to open the door, simply decline to accept the responsibility of operating the door.

There are no aircraft I am aware of where only one person had access to the door, Some are tighter than others, and in these cases, you may need to alter the climbout for your jump, or the exit order to move yourself out of the 'hot seat', but it is the correct course of action.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the person nearest the door is also the person who will be checking the spot, and scanning for traffic. Additionally, in the case of an emergency, the person nearest the door is responsible for operating the door in accordance with the commands of the pilot. These responsibilities should not be put on low time or visiting jumpers.

[diablopilot 2]

Quote

in Florida when it's 100 degrees, please place a foot in the door from takeoff to 1000ft!!!

No way. The door remains completely closed as long as anyone near it is seat belted to the aircraft.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Misternatural 0]

>Easy for Otters.

That's what I thought.....It's a sliding overhead door, how could I f*#k that up...So when I closed it on takeoff the sucker was tight as hell and I had to push with quite a bit of force to get it to close.....then open it again to cool everyone off but once we were climbing at full speed and I had to close it again- using the same force the bastard got away from me and went SLAM! I guess the air flow and pressure DOES have an effect on a sliding door- Now I know

afterwards I watched people carefully hold it up on climb to prevent slamming.....ah ha!

add: the cool off opening was after 1500' or so- seat belts off

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[quade 3]

Quote

Easy for Otters.

Right before takeoff, close the door.
DO NOT SLAM THE DOOR
1000ft - check for seatbelts off....open the door all the way
6000ft - close door until jump run
DO NOT SLAM THE DOOR
In case of stinky fart, crack the door open
Door light goes on, open the door all the way. Start spotting for yourself.
Green light - take your sweet assed time for all the people who yelled at you in the plane about operating the door. Jump, pull, and set the landing direction.

I'd say this is essentially correct. However, NEVER move the door without checking to see that hands are clear. People put their hands in really stupid places sometimes.

Also, there are times of the year where it's completely not necessary to open the on the way to altitude. The guy in charge of the door is the guy in charge of the door and needs to consider the temperature of not only those up front, but also those in the back that might be freezing.

If you're a guy up front and the guys in charge of the door aren't opening it fast enough or are taking "too long" to spot or whatever, shut the fuck up. They know more about what's going on at the door than you do.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jsreznor 0]

I found it easier to open and close the Otter doors in small increments as opposed to He-Man-ing it open and closed. Little at a time and you can make sure no one gets stuck in the finger grinder. Edit: and open the door from the middle, not the sides.

And yes, it's all weather dependent, but right now it's the summer and sort of hot, at least here in NY.

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

For small Cessna's ... you can put the student inside to practice operating the latch, and you can stay outside and try to "act like the wind", pulling the door up suddenly like the wind would when the door is first opened.

The first time I opened the door in a Cessna as a student, I didn't know that. I turned the handle, lifted the door a bit, and then it pulled out of my hand and went "whang!" pretty hard against the wing. My good luck, the DZO was also the pilot on that load. He yelled at me, "Hey, you fuck!!!...etc., etc." Nobody had to tell me that a second time.

[Misternatural 0]

Excellent everyone,
This is all great info that sometimes is not listed anywhere and you need to fish for your own.

like:

>I found it easier to open and close the Otter doors in small increments as opposed to He-Man-ing it open and closed. Little at a time and you can make sure no one gets stuck in the finger grinder. Edit: and open the door from the middle, not the sides.

yeah its the little tips that help the situation, I hope we can get lots of other tricks for door operation on other air craft too, then hopefully someone has a thread for no door or heli and baloon exit procedure................knowledge is power plus it prevents us from looking like the load ass.

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[tsalnukt 1]

here here. Don't matter how hot it is, door stays closed all the way for take off.

[normiss 622]

legs are more powerful than arms, laying on your back and pushing up with a leg opens the Otter door very easily.

and to the naysayers about cracking the door on takeoff...as hot as it gets in the summer in Florida, I've seen some dropzones leave the door all the way open for the entire ride. that was nerve racking....not much different than the Casa with the door up / open, or the Skyvans with the smaller door open... is it?
I understand the reason for wanting it closed...much like the up jumpers doing gear checks on each other directly in front of the open door.

[totter 2]

Quote

That's what I thought.....It's a sliding overhead door, how could I f*#k that up...So when I closed it on takeoff the sucker was tight as hell and I had to push with quite a bit of force to get it to close.....then open it again to cool everyone off but once we were climbing at full speed and I had to close it again- using the same force the bastard got away from me and went SLAM! I guess the air flow and pressure DOES have an effect on a sliding door- Now I know That's what I thought.....It's a sliding overhead door, how could I f*#k that up...So when I closed it on takeoff the sucker was tight as hell and I had to push with quite a bit of force to get it to close.....then open it again to cool everyone off but once we were climbing at full speed and I had to close it again- using the same force the bastard got away from me and went SLAM! I guess the air flow and pressure DOES have an effect on a sliding door- Now I know

I've built quite a number of jump doors for C206, King Airs, Caravans & Twin Otters and each one is different. Even between the same aircraft type they can be different.
You have to remember, these are not kits that you buy from the aircraft manufacture. Jump doors are all hand made and hand fitted.
The best working combination that I have found is a one piece door of 1/8" Lexan with the gap in the track being the same as the thickness of the door.
This seems to give a nice seal, keep vibration down and helps keep the door from binding.
You always want to open the door from the center. If you try to open it from the forward side ore aft side the door will get cocked and bind up.
The best doors I have ever seen, though, are the ones that were built by Graham Meise fro Freefall Express. All the doors have a "Tool Hanger" Support attach to them so that it takes very little effort to open and is difficult to slam.

[Misternatural 0]

>not much different than the Casa with the door up / open, or the Skyvans with the smaller door open... is it?


I was going to ask Skymama...How do those doors work anyway, is it a pushbutton hydraulic electrical operation?

What is the general exit protocol for "door" time on those types of planes?

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[Misternatural 0]

>I've built quite a number of jump doors for C206, King Airs, Caravans & Twin Otters and each one is different.


This is awesome!!!

I'ts funny,You know I was looking at the otter door and track system and thought- man that looks like a tricky custom rig to build....I was trying to figure out how you line up the tracks inside such an asymmetrical fusilage and have the door open and close reliably hundreds of times a month!

Freekin amazing!
What is the white material that lines the tracks ...Teflon?

Beware of the collateralizing and monetization of your desires.
D S #3.1415

[billeisele 122]

on the Otter is also nice if the door remains open an inch after it is closed from full-open, that keeps air flowing thru the cabin and it won't heat up much, especially up front, if someone in the rear will just put the toe of their shoe under the door that is all it takes

Give one city to the thugs so they can all live together. I vote for Chicago where they have strict gun laws.

[normiss 622]

The Skyvans I have been on it's a handle almost similar to a garage door handle, step on the door to relieve the tension, turn the handle and the door will spring open to a latch - but there is a small flap door in front of it on the floor...typically I've seen those just flipped back open on top of the main door...it's a large enough opening to just roll out on a hop n pop.

Casa, hydraulic operated by the cockpit.