IS this safe/legal ??

[weaverd 0]

Dont know if this was posted before I just randomly came across it. I know nothing about the photo.


[inline 45529_559815427422805_1854328588_n.jpg]

[wmw999 2,123]

I believe it's legal in the US as long as that's not a real tandem student. But it's pretty stupid regardless to me.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[ridebmxbikes 0]

Pull!!!

[chuckakers 370]

wmw999

I believe it's legal in the US as long as that's not a real tandem student. But it's pretty stupid regardless to me.

Wendy P.

Not too sure about that, Wendy. US tandem manufacturers are pretty anal about the use of their gear. Lawyers, ya know.

Legal or not, it's stupid as all hell.

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[Squeak 17]

done in europe I think.
Legal who knows, there arent really many "LAWS" in skydiving

Safe, meh, skydiving is not safe, might be "SAFEISH"

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[diablopilot 2]

No, and no, and I'll bet the owner of the tandem rig would put his/her foot up the ass of the TI and everyone else involved for doing this.

----------------------------------------------
You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously.

[Shredex 0]

Probably not safe due to entanglement problems. But it looks like they handled it perfectly.

How about some tandem skyboarding with a guy carving head down around them?

[skytribe 16]

Is it safe ? I would say no (although it is downright stupid).

Depending upon where this is in the world determines a authority of the manufacturers to enforce there procedures.

If it were in the US and you are breaching the manufacturer operating instructions then from the discussions at PIA symposium this may breach the FAR and hence not be legal.

(Analogy: The pilot of a commercial jet decides to do barrel rolls in his 737 with passengers. The manouever is outside the operating regulations for the aircraft and hence intentionally doing such actions could and in all likelihood would involve sanctions by the FAA)

If its in the states - I would hope the manufacturers would locate the tandem instructor and pull his ratings. Its clowns like this that give the sport a bad name when there is an Accident. (Note: Someone standing on the container holding the drogue is no accident its a intentional action that increases the risks further with the potential for a triple fatality)


As to skysurfing tandem photo. - Not safe either.

[normiss 622]

I'll take your analogy and translate it to real world.
Ask Tex about zero-g rolling a 707

Balls. Tex had 'em.
Stood up to the CEO when he was called on the carpet for it too.

Man....the good old days.....

[pchapman 261]

skytribe

If it were in the US and you are breaching the manufacturer operating instructions then from the discussions at PIA symposium this may breach the FAR and hence not be legal.

Which FAR regulates operation and not just rigging?

For example, 105.46 has some rules on maintaining tandem gear, using an approved harness, having received an approved rating to be a TI, and using an AAD.

But that rule doesn't mention operations.

(Interestingly, that FAR doesn't say anything about having to MAINTAIN any manufacturer rating - just get the initial rating. So that takes away any issue of the manufacturer deciding to pull a rating on a whim, or having to send anyone $25 a year. USPA might however have its own rules.)

But I don't know the FAR's well enough to know what other sections might say on all this.

One might as well say that for non-commercial operations, the example shouldn't be a 737 but playing with a dirt bike off road.

[skytribe 16]

Really - you think that was the point of the analogy.

Yes I know its possible - and that was a demo flight with no fare paying passengers on by a company test pilot. Did you ever see it done again.

Now Imagine your next flight that someone else thinks they are as good as Tex and because he could do it, thinks that he is capable and its acceptable to do it with a full load of customer on board.

Impressive to do it yes !!!!, Acceptable practice and legal - NOT !!!

Do you think he would maintain his ratings for pulling such a stunt.

[chuckakers 370]

pchapman

***
If it were in the US and you are breaching the manufacturer operating instructions then from the discussions at PIA symposium this may breach the FAR and hence not be legal.

Which FAR regulates operation and not just rigging?

For example, 105.46 has some rules on maintaining tandem gear, using an approved harness, having received an approved rating to be a TI, and using an AAD.

But that rule doesn't mention operations.

(Interestingly, that FAR doesn't say anything about having to MAINTAIN any manufacturer rating - just get the initial rating. So that takes away any issue of the manufacturer deciding to pull a rating on a whim, or having to send anyone $25 a year. USPA might however have its own rules.)

But I don't know the FAR's well enough to know what other sections might say on all this.

One might as well say that for non-commercial operations, the example shouldn't be a 737 but playing with a dirt bike off road.

I could be wrong, but I think there's an FAR, directive, or whatever that says all "certificated" equipment - planes, parachutes, etc. - must be operated within the limits set forth by the manufacturer. It's probably not utilized in enforcement actions except in extreme circumstances but I believe it can be.

Can someone clarify?

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[skyjumpenfool 2]

Personally, if you're going to "pole dance" a tandem. I'd think you'd do it sans jumpsuit?

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

Safe, meh, skydiving is not safe,

^This. Legality aside, as long as there is no student involved, it's all just adults engaging in assumption of risk.

It always cracks me up when skydivers - Hello? We jump out of planes? - talk about someone else's skydiving stunt as too dangerous to themselves, but their own brand of skydiving is, well, "safe enough".. News item: the rest of the world thinks we're all nuts, and they're more or less right.

[rwieder 0]

The legality of this jump doesn't matter to me. It IS NOT a wise decision. The clown on top of the tandem is risking everyone's life here. What about a premature opening? I'm not going to say ignorant, but I'm wanting to.

Best-
Richard

[pchapman 261]

Quote

What about a premature opening?

If you're talking about the consequences of a premature, no big deal. No different than when doing a rodeo dive, tracking dive, atmo, VRW, artistic freefly, etc, whenever one jumper is in or close to the the burble path of another jumper. Everyone gets to be equally dead. (Actually, being right on the jumper with the premature might help a tiny bit -- to get flung off before a large speed differential is created.)

All those types of jumping are well accepted.

If you're talking about the increased chance of a premature, yes, with the drogue out and main cover flaps open the pin area is more exposed. How easily the pin or cable may be dislodged will depend on the particular system. There certainly is some risk there for those who aren't careful with their footwork while hopping on and pole dancing.

[rwieder 0]

Quote

The legality of this jump doesn't matter to me. It IS NOT a wise decision.

I'm sticking with what I know.

Best-
Richard

[normiss 622]

hmmm...so the times I've been in a plane to jump from it, when the pilot did the same maneuver, should I have called the FAA???
Oh wait. Never mind. Regional FAA personnel were there. oopsie.




Retaining ratings would depend on where this occurred IMO.

[riggerrob 558]

This issue came up about 5(?) years ago and UPT(?) said that was a quick way to lose your TI rating.

If I ever saw a Strong TI doing anything that stupid, I would write a nasty-gram to Strong Enterprises, and that childish TI would lose his Strong TI rating.
The next day, I would give a copy of my nasty-gram to the DZO who hired this idiot.
Strong Enterprises shares their "black list" with UPT and Racer ... and probably Plexus as well.

As for the DZO kicking that idiotic TI in the ass .. he would have to wait until I pulled my stinking shoe out of his @$$!

Rob Warner
Strong Tandem Examiner

[mattjw916 2]

Reminds me of that old joke about people on the freeway... anyone that's driving faster than you is "crazy" and anyone that's driving slower is an "idiot".

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[normiss 622]

Hang on a sec Rob...and I don't disagree with your mindset...however....

If I'm a TI on a jump, with a vidiot, and a friend wants to chase, I trust their skills and everything enough to ok them coming along.
How the hell do I as the TI prevent an asshat from barber poling us????

Besides the punch in the face afterwards anyway.

[riggerrob 558]

normiss

Hang on a sec Rob...and I don't disagree with your mindset...however....

If I'm a TI on a jump, with a vidiot, and a friend wants to chase, I trust their skills and everything enough to ok them coming along.
How the hell do I as the TI prevent an asshat from barber poling us????

Besides the punch in the face afterwards anyway.

............................................................................

There is a quiet way to handle that sort of pole-dancing idiot.
After you land, quietly explain what happened to the DZO. If the DZO has any cajones ... er ... professional ethics, he/she will ground the @##hat for a year!

If the DZO does not ground that clown, then you should start looking for work at a more professional DZ.

[normiss 622]

Agreed fully brother.

[chuckakers 370]

Quote

If you're talking about the consequences of a premature, no big deal.

wtf?

Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

[pchapman 261]

chuckakers

Quote

If you're talking about the consequences of a premature, no big deal.

wtf?

The point I was making was that the consequences (as deadly as they may be), are no different than they would be for a variety of different ways to skydive, all of which are generally accepted forms of skydiving. Nobody says, "You're doing a tracking jump? What if there were a premature? Your licenses should be pulled!"

That still leaves the problem of to what degree a premature is more likely.