When do you stow your brakes?

[ihazkittehz 0]

This is a silly question, but I'm curious: When do you stow your brakes?

I'm still a new jumper, and I haven't really developed a habit yet. Sometimes I stow them completely while I'm still in the landing area, but I feel like it takes too long, and I should be getting out of the way. Other times I leave them totally unstowed, but then they have more of a chance of getting twisted, and it's annoyingly sloppy. Occasionally I've just tucked them in the keepers until I'm ready to pack.

Anyone have a good reason for doing it one way as opposed to another?

[DeNReN 0]

When at my home 182 DZ I stow in the field, at a bigger DZ or boogie I stow in the packing area

[Squeak 17]

I stow my toggles in the landing area t prevent twisting.

I SET my brakes in the packing area as a part of my packing routine.

You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

[The_Don 0]

Good answer!

I am NOT being loud.
I'm being enthusiastic!

[fasted3 0]

The issue is to prevent your brake lines from twisting up. A or B will do that, especially if you don't let go of the toggles until it's done.
Getting out of the way is important too, and takes precidence for me if I'm in the way. If necessary, I will untwist the brakes before packing.

I usually stow them completely in the landing area because I'm usually the last one to land. That is the reason I voted for that option.

The reason I want them untwisted is because twists can be burned in if you jump them that way. It also may increase the chances of a mal.

This would be a good discussion to have with a rigger at your DZ.

But what do I know?

[davelepka 4]

It's not a bad idea to stow them right after you land. You're standing there with the toggles in your hands, and the risers hanging off your shoulders. It helps to prevent tangles, and maybe twists depending on which way you put them on.

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Sometimes I stow them completely while I'm still in the landing area, but I feel like it takes too long, and I should be getting out of the way.

Getting out of the way of what? Unless you can gather your gear and completely remove yourself from the landing area before all the canopies have landed, you'll always be blocking some part of the LZ. Sometimes standing still is the better option, as you're an easier target to avoid when you're not moving. You might as well stow your stuff.

Of course, you should keep your head up, and pay attention while you're out there, but in the end you're always going to be somewhere, so it might as well be where you landed.

[ghost47 18]

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Getting out of the way of what? Unless you can gather your gear and completely remove yourself from the landing area before all the canopies have landed, you'll always be blocking some part of the LZ. Sometimes standing still is the better option, as you're an easier target to avoid when you're not moving. You might as well stow your stuff.

Of course, you should keep your head up, and pay attention while you're out there, but in the end you're always going to be somewhere, so it might as well be where you landed.

I guess it depends on where you jump. At Elsinore, there have been more than a few times where, if my group was first out, I am off the main landing area before the last fun jumper has landed. There have been lots of times where I've been off the main landing area before the tandems have landed (they also land in the main landing area).

I would imagine that setting the brakes (especially if you're looking for twists before you set them) will take SOME amount of concentration, no matter how little. That's time and brain power that's not spent looking for canopies coming down. So it would seem to me to make more sense to stash the toggles (I put them in the loops where I stow the excess brake lines), gather up my 'chute, and head towards the packing area, while scanning the sky for jumpers who are landing. Once in the packing area, I can untwist and set the brakes in an unhurried manner, and without having to worry (as much) about a jumper flying by and kicking me in the head.

[hchunter614 0]

I stow my brakes after I land (before dropping the toggles to prevent as many twists as possible) then set them when I get to the packing area to help the packers out.

I try to remember to untwist the brake lines at the end of the weekend so that the twists are not set in but that doesn't always happen.

[davelepka 4]

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I guess it depends on where you jump. At Elsinore, there have been more than a few times where, if my group was first out, I am off the main landing area before the last fun jumper has landed

You realize that you have 300 jumps, and are jumping from the largest plane in common use in to one the smallest landing areas in skydiving, right?

OK, Elsinore's LZ is not tiny, they have the entire desert, but the grass area isn't all that big as far as LZs go.

Either way, the OP is a new jumper, presumably landing somewhere mid-pack, and anything short of an Otter puts maybe four or five jumpers before, and four or five after. Like I said, you have to be somewhere, and where that is matters little, short of standing the middle of the peas during an accuracy contest.

Pay attention to your surroundings. If there are no canopied on final heading in your direction, you can look away for a moment and stow a toggle. Check again and stow another.

Do you mean to tell me that you hit the ground, gather your canopy, and scurry out of the LZ with your eyes truned skyward at all times? Anything short of that, you might as well be standing still. You keep your eyes open, and clear your ears so you can hear a canopy getting close, or the out of control jumper under it yelling at you to move.

[ridestrong 1]

I set them right after landing... gives me something to do while waiting for the tandems & AFF students to get down... and it saves me 60 seconds in the packing hanger.

*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

[ghost47 18]

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You realize that you have 300 jumps, and are jumping from the largest plane in common use in to one the smallest landing areas in skydiving, right?

That's why I said "I guess it depends on where you jump. At Elsinore . . ."

(And yes, I know how many jumps I have. I'm honestly not quite sure why it's relevant here -- are you saying I therefore know less than you (which I freely admit) or are you saying that therefore I shouldn't compare what I do with what OP does or should do, or something else?)

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Either way, the OP is a new jumper, presumably landing somewhere mid-pack, and anything short of an Otter puts maybe four or five jumpers before, and four or five after. Like I said, you have to be somewhere, and where that is matters little, short of standing the middle of the peas during an accuracy contest.

Well, you have many more jumps than I. But, in my newbie opinion, if it's possible that you can clear out of the landing area before others land, that's a good idea.

If you CAN'T clear the landing area before people land, then I would think you should pay as much attention as possible to where others are landing, and not be worrying about setting brakes.

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Pay attention to your surroundings. If there are no canopied on final heading in your direction, you can look away for a moment and stow a toggle. Check again and stow another.

As you say "the OP is a new jumper". How long does it take her to properly set a brake? (No disrespect intended to the OP.) But I imagine it might take a little time to make sure there are no twists, to put the toggle in its slot, and to stow the excess brake line. What you suggest (paying attention to my surroundings) is what I do before taking off my helmet, or taking my earplugs out, or removing my booties. And if I could set my brakes in the same amount of time that it took me to do each of those things, perhaps I'd set them while in the landing area too. And if you can, and OP can, then great. Have at it.

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Do you mean to tell me that you hit the ground, gather your canopy, and scurry out of the LZ with your eyes truned skyward at all times? Anything short of that, you might as well be standing still. You keep your eyes open, and clear your ears so you can hear a canopy getting close, or the out of control jumper under it yelling at you to move.

No, my sequence is usually something like:

Land. Make sure my canopy collapses. Look around for canopies. Take off booties. Look around for canopies. Take off helmet. Look around for canopies. Take out and store ear plugs. Look around for canopies. Put helmet sideways on my head and gather canopy. Look around for canopies. Put helmet in hand that's not carrying canopy and start walking towards the packing area. Look around for canopies.

Some of those "look around for canopies" may be omitted if there's obviously no one close. And if in looking for canopies, I see someone coming in on final close to me, I'll freeze or move, depending on what their trajectory looks like it's gonna be.

In my 300-jump experience, it takes me significantly longer to set the brakes than any of the tasks that I do between looking for canopies. If, in your 4900-jump experience it does not, then great. But for me, it makes sense to not set the brakes in the landing area, so that: (a) I'm not distracted when setting the brakes; and (b) there's less chance of interfering with someone's landing while my attention is diverted.

If everyone has already landed, or will land before I could possibly move, then I might set the brakes in the landing area after I knew everyone was on the ground. (Even then, I might not, if I was at a DZ with two planes (like Elsinore). Last Sunday I was one of the first ones out on my load, and, after I pulled and looked around, I wondered how all these other jumpers had gotten below me. I then realized they were people landing from the previous load that had gone up 10 minutes before mine.)

When analyzing an incident, I often hear skydivers discuss breaking a link in the chain of events. To me, being inattentive in the landing area could be such a link. Perhaps unlikely -- you're not inattentive for that long, maybe, or you'd hear the wooshing of a canopy coming in and look up, or you'd hear a jumper saying MOVE. But maybe. Why risk it? What's the benefit other than saving maybe 10 or 20 seconds per jump?

[davelepka 4]

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(And yes, I know how many jumps I have. I'm honestly not quite sure why it's relevant here -- are you saying I therefore know less than you (which I freely admit) or are you saying that therefore I shouldn't compare what I do with what OP does or should do, or something else?)

Relax man, I was comparing you to the OP. My presumption is that you will pull lower and fly a faster than canopy then him, putting you on the ground sooner with a larger portion of the load landing after you. It was actually a nod to your expereince, not against it.

Of course, sometimes I type too fast and glaze over certain details.

In general, your average jumper will be landing a condsiderable distance from the packing area, sometimes across an active runway. As such, vacating the LZ before the other canopies are down is not an option. The best you could do is maybe clear out before the tandems or students land.

Tandems are being piloted by professionals, and are slow. Student rigs are piloted by students, and are also slow. Both easy to keep track of.

You seem to feel that setting the brakes is somwhow different than the other steps in your multi step routine, but it's not.

I don't jump booties - score some free time for me.

I don't jump with ear plugs - score some free time for me.

I wear my helmet in to the packing area - score some free time for me.

In comparison to me, your routine, which you seem to think is Ok, requires for more time and steps to begin clearing the LZ, but you have no problem with that. Do you see the point?

It's just another step, and like I said (and you said) you take a look, and do something. Take another look, do something else, and so on.

Here's the kicker, out of all my jumps 75% have been videos, where I land in the middle of the LZ, and stand there waiting to film my landing and interview. In addition to setting my brakes, I unstow my slider, take my rig off, remove half of my jumpsuit if it's warm, re-set both of my cameras from freefall mode to gournd mode, retirieve my sungalsses from my jumpsuit pocket, sometimes fish out a fresh stick of gum, and on, and on. After doing that 4000+ times, I've never been hit or had a close call of any kind.

It's good to respect the LZ. It's not a walk down a secluded beach, but it's also not a minefield. Anyone capable of making a safe skydive is capable of minding their surroundings in the LZ.

Landing with the attitude that you must clear out is what will cause people to rush and make mistakes. Landing with the understanding of the environment of a live LZ, and acting accordingly is what will keep everyone safe.

In the end, you might as well look at the canopies anyway. It's clearly the most interesting thing happening anywhere near you, so have a look and watch other people land. Study the canopies, and watch how they react to the winds and jumper input. You can learn a lot by watching others land, and maybe even be able to offer them some advice based on your observations.

[ghost47 18]

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In comparison to me, your routine, which you seem to think is Ok, requires for more time and steps to begin clearing the LZ, but you have no problem with that. Do you see the point?

I do, but I'm not sure you see mine.

I was trying to make two points. The first was, if you can clear the landing area, that's great, and I think you should try to do it. At places like Elsinore, sometimes you can. Maybe at other places, it's less of a concern (because the main landing area is so huge), or less possible.

The second point, though, was, regardless of whether you can clear the landing area, I am not comfortable doing something that will prevent me from keeping track of people landing for too long. So even though I have many more steps in my routine after I land, and may take more total time than someone who is just setting their brakes, the point is, each of the steps in my routine takes several seconds only, and in between, I have time to look for canopies. Whereas setting one brake takes me maybe twice or three times as long as removing my booties. Granted, that's still only maybe 10 or 15 seconds total time that I'm not paying attention (or paying lesser attention). But it still seems an unnecessary risk to me, for not much gain.

In the end, as I'm sure you know and will agree, skydiving is about choices. I have not been around long enough to give any definitive opinion about whether people should set their brakes in the landing area. I will only say that, at least at this stage of my skydiving career, I would not do it because I feel it leaves me inattentive for too long of a time.

I'll give one more, sort-of-related anecdote. When I first started jumping with booties, I experimented with removing them after opening but before landing. The idea was that landing on them would wear them out quicker, especially if I was running out a landing or, ended up sliding on my feet. After two or three times of removing them, I stopped. The reason is because I found that I was focusing too much on removing my booties, and not so much on the canopy traffic around me. It took me 10 or 15 seconds to remove a bootie, and some concentrated effort. I never had a really close call, but once somebody flew by me (at a safe distance) and I hadn't even noticed the canopy was coming my way. But had that jumper been similarly inattentive, and maybe 50 or 100 feet closer, someone might now be using me as an example of why we need to pay attention at all times while under canopy.

Things happen faster in the air than in a landing area, because in the air both canopies are moving towards each other at 15+ or however many mph, and on landing, at least one party is mostly stationary. So it's not a great analogy. But it's another reason that I tend to not like doing things that distract my attention for too long, until I'm safely out of the landing area.

[popsjumper 2]

Stowing the toggles is what you call "I tuck the top of the toggle in the keeper". This is what you do in the field after you land.

Setting the brakes and untwisting brake lines is done in the hangar as part of the packing process.

Make that your habit. It fits all DZs everywhere.

Really, it's just that simple.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[JackC1 0]

Stow the toggles in the keepers immediately after landing. When you pack, check for and remove any twists in the brake lines and set your brakes properly. If you leave your toggles flapping around it will put twists in your brake lines and it makes you look sloppy. If you set your brakes in the landing area, you probably won't take the time to remove any twists that are already there. Twisted brake lines are shorter than untwisted ones which alters the trim of your brakes and can cause malfunctions. There's no excuse for them.

[timmyfitz 0]

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In comparison to me, your routine, which you seem to think is Ok, requires for more time and steps to begin clearing the LZ, but you have no problem with that. Do you see the point?

I do, but I'm not sure you see mine.

I was trying to make two points. The first was, if you can clear the landing area, that's great, and I think you should try to do it. At places like Elsinore, sometimes you can. Maybe at other places, it's less of a concern (because the main landing area is so huge), or less possible.

The second point, though, was, regardless of whether you can clear the landing area, I am not comfortable doing something that will prevent me from keeping track of people landing for too long. So even though I have many more steps in my routine after I land, and may take more total time than someone who is just setting their brakes, the point is, each of the steps in my routine takes several seconds only, and in between, I have time to look for canopies. Whereas setting one brake takes me maybe twice or three times as long as removing my booties. Granted, that's still only maybe 10 or 15 seconds total time that I'm not paying attention (or paying lesser attention). But it still seems an unnecessary risk to me, for not much gain.

In the end, as I'm sure you know and will agree, skydiving is about choices. I have not been around long enough to give any definitive opinion about whether people should set their brakes in the landing area. I will only say that, at least at this stage of my skydiving career, I would not do it because I feel it leaves me inattentive for too long of a time.

I'll give one more, sort-of-related anecdote. When I first started jumping with booties, I experimented with removing them after opening but before landing. The idea was that landing on them would wear them out quicker, especially if I was running out a landing or, ended up sliding on my feet. After two or three times of removing them, I stopped. The reason is because I found that I was focusing too much on removing my booties, and not so much on the canopy traffic around me. It took me 10 or 15 seconds to remove a bootie, and some concentrated effort. I never had a really close call, but once somebody flew by me (at a safe distance) and I hadn't even noticed the canopy was coming my way. But had that jumper been similarly inattentive, and maybe 50 or 100 feet closer, someone might now be using me as an example of why we need to pay attention at all times while under canopy.

Things happen faster in the air than in a landing area, because in the air both canopies are moving towards each other at 15+ or however many mph, and on landing, at least one party is mostly stationary. So it's not a great analogy. But it's another reason that I tend to not like doing things that distract my attention for too long, until I'm safely out of the landing area.

Don't sweat it, ghost. You had it right in post #7. Some people just like to argue to appear superior.

[davelepka 4]

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Don't sweat it, ghost. You had it right in post #7. Some people just like to argue to appear superior.

And some people like to hurl thinly veiled insults for the same reason. Nice work pot.

Your pal,

Kettle

[piisfish 135]

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This is a silly question, but I'm curious: When do you stow your brakes?

I stow them when I start packing.
I take advantage of that moment to untwist the brakelines.
The majority of people I see setting them "in the field" do not untwist the lines before packing and their lines look (and act) like crap.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[timmyfitz 0]

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Don't sweat it, ghost. You had it right in post #7. Some people just like to argue to appear superior.

And some people like to hurl thinly veiled insults for the same reason. Nice work pot.

Your pal,

Kettle

Nothing "veiled" in my response. Just the facts.

[ntrprnr 0]

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I stow my toggles in the landing area t prevent twisting.

I SET my brakes in the packing area as a part of my packing routine.

So you put them in the keepers, then get to the packing area, "unkeep them" and the set them? Isn't that a good way to forget to set them?

_______________
"Why'd you track away at 7,000 feet?"
"Even in freefall, I have commitment issues."

[Rick 67]

I really don't think it matters if you stow in landing area or in the hanger. I think the main thing is to develop a routine and stick with it.

You can't be drunk all day if you don't start early!

[tetra316 0]

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I stow my toggles in the landing area t prevent twisting.

I SET my brakes in the packing area as a part of my packing routine.

So you put them in the keepers, then get to the packing area, "unkeep them" and the set them? Isn't that a good way to forget to set them?

Well, that's how I've always (mostly) done it and I've never come close to forgetting to stow them. Then again I always pack for myself so they are checked again when I pickup the lines to put over my shoulder.

[DSE 3]

I also jump at Elsinore.
I stow my brakes in the landing area after turning around and scanning the sky to see who is coming down. As a wingsuiter, I'm often landing at the same time as tandems. It's a concern to see 3-4 people walking in from the landing area as they're talking, not paying attention. Worse is when you *think* you know where they're walking and they stop or move to another direction when you're committed to where you're going to set down.

[BillyVance 34]

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I also jump at Elsinore.
I stow my brakes in the landing area after turning around and scanning the sky to see who is coming down. As a wingsuiter, I'm often landing at the same time as tandems. It's a concern to see 3-4 people walking in from the landing area as they're talking, not paying attention. Worse is when you *think* you know where they're walking and they stop or move to another direction when you're committed to where you're going to set down.

That's why I yell "INCOMING!!!!"

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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This is a silly question, but I'm curious: When do you stow your brakes?

After stepping out of the way and turning around to watch for other canopies I set my brakes with the toggle tip in the cat-eye + elastic and velcro mated so the lines don't get twisted or worn from contact with hook velcro.

I stow the excess brake line when I pack because that's easier to do on the ground.