Safety issues with a full face helmet

[voodew1 0]

Just wanted to bring to light that not all jumpers who wear full face helmets can see their emergency handles when it is important that they do.

Small female who wears a full face Z1 had a mal not to long ago and very low reserve deployment due to not being able to locate/see the reserve handle.

On the ground wearing the helmet she was not able to visually see her handles---most people can see them just fine but as a precaution you should wear all of your gear including helmet and gloves when you practice your emergency procedures.

Note putting your hair in a ponytail or bun and then putting on your helmet will change things also -- practice saving yourself as if it is for real--it could be!

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

[Lostinspace 0]

I am a small low time jumper. I cannot see my handles. When I practice EPs I do not look at the handles. I do practice like my life depends on it. When I have had to perform my EPs, I have not looked either. I had no trouble locating them.

Along these lines, I don’t put anything in the pocket of my tony suit, even though the nylon of my suit does not feel like my cut away handle. The pocket is at the same level as my cut away handle.

Is it more important that they can see them or locate them?

Quote

USPA SIMS, 4.I.H
http://uspa.org/publications/SIM/2005SIM/Section4CatA.htm#1g
partial malfunction
Note: On single-operation systems, pulling the reserve ripcord releases the main canopy first before deploying the reserve. Partial malfunction procedures for a single-operation system (SOS) are the same as for a total malfunction.
1. Check altitude.
2. Return to the arch position.
3. Ripcord systems only: Discard the main ripcord.
4. Locate and grasp the cutaway handle.
5. Locate the reserve ripcord handle.
6. Pull the cutaway handle until no lower than 1,000 feet.
7. Pull the reserve ripcord handle immediately after cutting away or by 1,000 feet, regardless of stability, to initiate reserve deployment.
8. Arch and check over the right shoulder for reserve pilot chute deployment.
9. Do not cut away below 1,000 feet.

[bodypilot1 0]

Open face helmet or RSL and Cypres.




Be safe.
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[AggieDave 6]

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Is it more important that they can see them or locate them?

Yes.

Which ever works the best for that jumper.

Personally I looked at my handles on my first chop but not on the other chops I've had (that's sort of cheating though, since all 3 were on tandems), other jumpers I've talked to also have stated that they hadn't looked at their handles, their hands just went to the right place. Other jumpers have also stated that they looked at their handles.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[Candy 0]

This weekend I bought a Mamba flip-up full face helmet, I had checked out a few online and one of the things that had me interested in this particular helmet and as was stated in the advertisement, was that the helmet was shaped to allow full head movement and the ability to see and locate emergency handles.

After trying on a couple different types I found that it was the lightest, most comfortable and had the best field of view. The helmet is also designed to open from the top, by squeezing the lens together at the forehead instead of a push-in button on the chin that could be bumped and cause an unwanted lens opening.

I’m a low number jumper and have always jumped with an open face helmet until now, are there any other safety issues jumping with a full face helmet that I should be aware of?

Candy

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[billvon 2,400]

>are there any other safety issues jumping with a full face helmet that I should be aware of?

It can fog up and render you blind at inopportune moments.
It can open unexpectedly and distract you.
It can be difficult to open under canopy and _that_ can distract you.
If you are seriously injured it can get in the way of CPR; this might result in the helmet being pulled off your head, resulting in potential spinal injury.

[phoenixlpr 0]

It can block the view of your altimeter if you mount it in the center of the chest strap.

[voodew1 0]

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Is it more important that they can see them or locate them?

Remember that in some instances (spinning mal) the emergency handles could move drastically from where they normally are to one high / one low and way off to the side. It would be nice nice to know where they are visually instead of touchy feely 'til you find them.

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

[phoenixlpr 0]

AFAR I can see them. I have a Z1.

[voodew1 0]

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AFAR I can see them. I have a Z1.

This is not about brand of helmet its about how certain shapes of heads attach to certain types of bodies.
I can see my handles fine in any type of full face helmet -- I believe this is going to be more of a problem with smaller people

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

[Nick 0]

It's not only full face helmets that can cause this. I know of a couple of girls (one of them my GF

Nick
Gravity- It's not just a good idea, it's the LAW!

[phoenixlpr 0]

IMHO the brand is one variable of the equation.

[eeneR 1]

There are multiple things that can cause problems with seeing handles....Mine hide under my chest. Helmet or not I cannot see my handles. This scenario is not going to be the same for everyone. I primarily wear a full face, but am aware of the lowered vision, once im in clear airspace the visor is opened to avoid issues with fogging etc.

I tool the time to learn and understand both on the ground and in the air where my handles sit. Under canopy i always see where they sit while fully under harness. I also do have to add though I have a small MLW there is no space between my laterals, reserve/cutaway and my chest strap. So it is pretty easy to determine where the handles are, right below my chest strap. Chest is a big help here, cause i can usually feel where the chest strap is or see it, giving me a good point to find handles.

Yes I have had one chop live, and do a practice chop on the ground before each reserve repack, having two people life me tight into the harness. No I do not look for my handles....

my .02. You can always plan ahead for this stuff and see. Have someone hold you up by your risers and see what you can and cannot see with the helmet on. What works for Jan may not work for John. etc.

She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway."
eeneR
TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto

[phoenixlpr 0]

I use BOC on my own gear. I had jumps with a MTC-2. It has reserve ripcord on the left, cut-away handle on the right (yellow tube) and main ripcord next to it. I had a dozen practice EP and pull before I have jumped that. It was an issue not just find, but pull the right one: ripcord and not cut-away, because those were next to each other.

[faulknerwn 36]

Sometimes I look for my handles and sometimes I don't. Having ~16 reserve rides these days I've had a variety of events...

I had one reserve ride after a spinner where I found the reserve handle literally about a foot away from my body - it was a really nice spin. And that was on a very small rig built especially for me.

There was another where I had to do the "follow the harness down from the 3-ring and feel" because I had a bigger chest-mount altimeter on than I usually jumped and I couldn't see nor feel the handle (this was after I was already in freefall having cutaway from a CRW wrap.)

I've had my handles be in unusual places numerous times where its been extremely helpful to look for them. Other times they've been right where I expect. I remember one time being in freefall after a CRW wrap fumbling for my handle which had moved quite a bit (I usually track away for a bit after a CRW wrap just to make sure I have clean air for my reserve) so when I reached for it it wasn't there. I just remember as I was looking for it in freefall thinking about what an idiot I would like like in Parachutist if I didn't find it :-)

Don't be complacent about not being able to see your handles. Sometimes biology makes it that way, but if you can avoid it by wearing helmets which don't restrict your vision of them, it might save your life one day.

W

[AMax 0]

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Small female who wears a full face Z1 had a mal not to long ago and very low reserve deployment due to not being able to locate/see the reserve handle.

IMHO, if you wear a Z1 looking down/sideways (instead of straight down) helps to see the handles easier. Also, as was already said above, it is important to remember and anticipate that the handles shift up with the harness when main is deployed (or deploying). We regularly practice EP's on the ground and in the plane when the handles are significantly lower than after deployment. Locating both handles after normal opening is a good drill that develops a muscle memory.

[voodew1 0]

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IMHO, if you wear a Z1 looking down/sideways (instead of straight down) helps to see the handles easier.

The point of this thread was that some head/body shapes can not see the handles if they wear a full face helmet. The jumper in question no matter how she looked -sideways or straight couldn't see anything ---

The point here was that this doesn't affect everyone but be aware it can affect some.

I personally don't have any problem seeing anything with any helmet I have ever tried --- Z1/oxygen/camera/others

The pimp hand is powdered up ... say something stupid

[AMax 0]

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The point of this thread was that some head/body shapes can not see the handles if they wear a full face helmet. The jumper in question no matter how she looked -sideways or straight couldn't see anything ---

The point here was that this doesn't affect everyone but be aware it can affect some.

I personally don't have any problem seeing anything with any helmet I have ever tried --- Z1/oxygen/camera/others

I got the point I believe Z1 restricts visibility regardless the head/body shapes. I am 6'3 and I still need to TRY and look down at proper angle to see the handles after opening

[eeneR 1]

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Don't be complacent about not being able to see your handles. Sometimes biology makes it that way, but if you can avoid it by wearing helmets which don't restrict your vision of them, it might save your life one day.

By no means did I mean to have that come across as complacent. It was ment more as an explination to those who expect to always see your handles. I normally cant, and have learned how to feel about where they are.

Things change and change quick, and if someone is trying to find handles by looking for them cause they are always used to seeing them, they are wasting valuble time. It is taking the time and learning where they are on your harness, and how to locate them with out seeing them.

I appologize if the post came across complacent, that was not what was ment. I just wanted to make a point that not always can you see your handles.

She is not a "Dumb Blonde" - She is a "Light-Haired Detour Off The Information Superhighway."
eeneR
TF#72, FB#4130, Incauto

[AndyMan 7]

The problem is hardly limited to small females.

I'm 6'0 and well over 200 pounds. I can not see my handles when wearing a Z-1 helmet.

That doesn't bother me any more than the fact that I also can not see my main deployment handle...

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[achowe 0]

I cant see my handles with my Z1 on. Had a mal the other week and located the handles no problem.

-------------------------------------------------
Woooaaaaaa!!! Woooaaaa!!! I'm gettin' off it!

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

If this person had practiced her EP's on the plane with her helmet on, she would have noticed that she couldn't see her handles with her full-face in place. Does this mean that she didn't practice her EPs on the plane with a helmet in place? Is she perhaps a newer jumper? Was this her first cutaway or malfunction?

I am a small woman, who cannot see her handles due to breasts blocking them, not due to my helmet's visibility. I have had no problem getting my reserve out right after pulling my cutaway handle without the help of an RSL, and I have had more than one cutaway on different rigs. It's an instinctive reaction to pull the reserve handles asap after cutting away the main, which is why I asked the prior questions about the situation that you had posted. In any case, thank you for posting and alerting more people of this possible danger.

[nael 0]

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If this person had practiced her EP's on the plane with her helmet on, she would have noticed that she couldn't see her handles with her full-face in place. Does this mean that she didn't practice her EPs on the plane with a helmet in place?

It appears just from this thread alone that a lot of people cannot see their handles with their full face on and don't worry about it, perhaps she was one of these people also.

www.TerminalSports.com.auAustralia's largest skydive gear store

[Candy 0]

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It can fog up and render you blind at inopportune moments.

Is that a common problem with full face helmets, even when the lens is said to have been coated with anti-fog direct from the factory?

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[bodypilot1 0]

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Is that a common problem with full face helmets, even when the lens is said to have been coated with anti-fog direct from the factory?

The anti fog coating works great, usually untill you have to wash it when it gets dirty.

After washing it you can recoat it with more if you choose.
To keep from getting it fogged in the plane, have it on as little as possible to prevent the moisture in your breath from fogging it up, and try to purse your lips to the vent holes in the front and try not to breath through you nose.

Unless your a heavy breather......?


Be safe.
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com