Deaf Student. Need advice to train them.

[jdpml 0]

Need some advice to help with this.
I have been contacted by a deaf man who wants to learn to skydive (aff).
He cannot lip read and talks with a note pad and then reads the reply from it . He can do sign language well.
Is there a AFF instructor out there with any experience with this, as i have a big problem working with someone who I cannot communicate with at the most basic level.
Is there someone out there who can teach a FJC in sign language ??
Nice guy, love to help him out or put him in contact with someone who can help him.
I am in Florida,he is working in Mississippi
Please pm me with any help you have or post it here.
Many thanks
Paul.

[billvon 2,400]

>Is there a AFF instructor out there with any experience with this, as i have a
>big problem working with someone who I cannot communicate with at the
>most basic level.

Use an interpreter for the FJC and radios. I've taught German and Japanese students this way. It takes much longer though.

[jdpml 0]

Quote

>Is there a AFF instructor out there with any experience with this, as i have a
>big problem working with someone who I cannot communicate with at the
>most basic level.

Use an interpreter for the FJC and radios. I've taught German and Japanese students this way. It takes much longer though.

You can speak any language you want on the radio Bill, but the DEAF guy ain't getting it.
Wondering about a seperate pass with paddles and a fly along canopy close by for the first few until we know how he is doing.

[AndyMan 7]

I've seen it done a handful of times using big water noodles for canopy direction. It requires a day with very light winds, and a spot that's closer to the DZ than hearing students might get. You want to make sure the student will not have any trouble finding the DZ on his own.

Use an interpreter for the FJC, hand signs in freefall, and some kind of paddles for turns and flaring.

Another challenge to think about is where to place yourself in the landing area so that the student can see you no matter what phase of his pattern he's flying.

_Am

__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[billvon 2,400]

>You can speak any language you want on the radio Bill, but the DEAF
>guy ain't getting it.

D'oh, you're right. Paddles are a good idea; they worked for years at many SL DZ's across the world.

[Jumpdude 0]

Contact Billy Vance here on DZ.com. I think he would be well qualified to help you with your situation.

Refuse to Lose!!!
Failure is NOT an option!
1800skyrideripoff.com
Nashvilleskydiving.org

[jdpml 0]

Had to put that up there Bill , just for fun :)))
I can get the FJC covered pretty well, but having a problem with the "under canopy" stuff, he may do great and it's no problem,or he may not do well and helping him through it becomes tough.
I know that a radio can fail on a level one,that's tough, but putting someone up KNOWING that there at a big disadvantage don't do it for me.
Open to any and all ideas.
Thanks,
Paul. (at zhills )

[wmw999 2,123]

I believe there are DZs that still don't use radios; it might be worth talking to them. Building the sight picture for flaring & landing direction is probably the most important thing. Students flew with no radios for years on rounds, so we know that's possible.

If he would do it, a tandem first to give him some flavor of steering, picture from above, & flaring might be good.

Actually, ya know -- if he goes tandem, then the TM could be the interpreter, too

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[theonlyski 3]

Quote

I believe there are DZs that still don't use radios; it might be worth talking to them. Building the sight picture for flaring & landing direction is probably the most important thing. Students flew with no radios for years on rounds, so we know that's possible.

If he would do it, a tandem first to give him some flavor of steering, picture from above, & flaring might be good.

Actually, ya know -- if he goes tandem, then the TM could be the interpreter, too

Wendy P.

Unless hes steering, in which case, it would be kind of difficult.

"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

[faulknerwn 36]

Taught a couple of deaf students here. I've lived in Italy so communicating with my hands and face comes easily to me (I don't know sign language.)

We have a good handout which I let them read ahead of time, and a good presentation with visuals and all of that. A lot of the teaching body position and the skydive and such is just visual and placing their body in the right position and showing them what to imitate.

We just spent a lot of time on canopy control making sure they understood it, and used flags to point landing directions as need be. Neither had any problems with canopy control as a student.

We found that often using a laptop with a Notepad style of application was usually faster for communicating on the ground because typing for all of us was faster than handwriting..

[tdog 0]

I would teach him in a heart beat. It sounds like a fun challenge.

For the FJC I would sit with him with a computer and type what I was trying to say and show him lots of pictures, etc. I would make him do his homework of reading the SIM cover to cover and recite back to me via notepad/computer certain parts to make sure he understood... Maybe have him read other books too.

For the freefall practice, I would simply use the handsignals taught. Heck, we all wish students could read our handsignals in freefall since they can't hear us, so no problem there.

Anything physical can be taught with physical motions. Maybe a bit of tunnel time to seal the deal.

For the canopy. I think a few tandems, where he is allowed to do most of the driving (at least to get the canopy near home plate) would prove he could do it. I have had more than one student complain the radio was hard to hear or confusing, so I don't think it is a mandatory tool for success. There are some students who you just know have the ability to fly a canopy without radio, some you wish you had a remote control to save their butt. In the training I hope it would become clear before you put him up. More tandems if in doubt.

Unfortunately I am unable to go to Mississippi, so good luck finding an AFFI.

[BillyVance 34]

Thanks.

A few years ago, I helped Skydive The Farm train a deaf guy by assisting the AFF ground course teacher with sign language translation as he was fully dependent on ASL (no voice or lip-reading), and by going along on every one of his AFF level jumps as video. He had a natural talent for freefall, it seemed like, but he took the instructions well. If he didn't do something well on a jump, he aced it the next time. And yes, he passed the AFF course without fail, in the minimum # of jumps.

I also wrote a 3 page article in Parachutist focusing on training methods for deaf students, but damned if I can remember which issue that showed up in. It's been a long while....

"Mediocre people don't like high achievers, and high achievers don't like mediocre people." - SIX TIME National Champion coach Nick Saban

[Fast 0]

We have taught a few deaf students at our DZ. The primary thing you have to do is spend a lot more time on the canopy stuff. Most of what you need to teach in skydiving is physical stuff and you can get through most of that easy. The things that are conceptual you're just going to have to write down.

We managed the canopy stuff by spending the significantly longer amount of time on it and used paddles(pool noodles actually, as mentioned earlier) in the landing area.

As it is we teach all our students how to mimic our hands in the landing area if the radio fails.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[jdpml 0]

Thank you all for the help with this,talking to Kevin now and we will let you all know how this works.
Special thanks for the pm,s I will follow up on them when I have time
You guys and gals rock.
Paul.

[yoink 321]

May be worth getting an experienced jumper to to a few jumps with exactly the gear and as close to possible exactly the scenario as possible?

Giving him a video of what he'll be seeing, both upwards and downwards, how to locate the landing area, how to steer may well be worth the investment ahead of time.

I've seen precisely 1 dz that shows students a video from first-person perspective of what a decent approach pattern looks like. Always seemed like a good idea to me... Gives them a visual idea before they go up.

[Andy9o8 0]

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I've seen precisely 1 dz that shows students a video from first-person perspective of what a decent approach pattern looks like. Always seemed like a good idea to me... Gives them a visual idea before they go up.

Seems to me that an introductory tandem jump would give him an even more accurate and realistic sight picture than a video. Not saying the videos shouldn't be included, but it seems that this type of student would be a very good candidate for an introductory tandem prior to AFF-1. Not just the standard reason of helping dissipate some fear and sensory overload, but also to use the paddles during the tandem landing, so his first solo landing won't be the first time seeing it from the air.

[yoink 321]

Absolutely.

It'd also cost him $200 more.


Not just for this guy - I thought it was a good addition to the FJC.


edit: damn you with the quick edit!

[Andy9o8 0]

Quote

It'd also cost him $200 more

I'm not insensitive to the expense, but what's the value in an extra measure of training to hopefully help him avoid injury on his first jump?

[towerrat 0]

Talk really loud?

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes!

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

Absolutely.

It'd also cost him $200 more.

Why? The first Tandem Progression jump is an AFF Level 1 jump. Good TMs can do a hell of a lot to teach Level 1 with the added plus of in-the-air instruction on canopy flight.

I would venture to say that AFF Level 1 costs are more than Tandem costs at most, if not all, DZs.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[popsjumper 2]

Quote

Thanks.

A few years ago, I helped Skydive The Farm train a deaf guy by assisting the AFF ground course teacher with sign language translation as he was fully dependent on ASL (no voice or lip-reading), and by going along on every one of his AFF level jumps as video. He had a natural talent for freefall, it seemed like, but he took the instructions well. If he didn't do something well on a jump, he aced it the next time. And yes, he passed the AFF course without fail, in the minimum # of jumps.

I was that "AFF ground course teacher". I am forever grateful to VillyBance for assisting. He did a bang-up job.

But, there's more to the story.

We used paddles in the landing area for canopy flight direction. I was the paddle-chump in the middle of the landing area. All was well and good except for one minor problem...the student could find neither me nor the paddles.

So, while I was out there frantically waving fluorescent-orange paddles around trying to get him to turn towards the DZ, he, on his own, put his canopy down between power lines, a chain-link fence and a row of trees in the neighbors back yard. Oh, did I mention the 7-8 dogs in the back yard...one of which was very vicious?

We saw him heading towards the yard and the DZO called the homeowner. Joe homeowner ran out and tackled the vicious dog just before the student landed and when we got there, the owner and the dog were wrestling in a big cloud of dust while the student, quite calmly, was rolling his lines and was completely unaware of the wrestling match going on.

We got the student out of the fence in a hurry...just in time before the dog won the match and pinned the owner.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[nigel99 144]

Quote

Quote

Thanks.

A few years ago, I helped Skydive The Farm train a deaf guy by assisting the AFF ground course teacher with sign language translation as he was fully dependent on ASL (no voice or lip-reading), and by going along on every one of his AFF level jumps as video. He had a natural talent for freefall, it seemed like, but he took the instructions well. If he didn't do something well on a jump, he aced it the next time. And yes, he passed the AFF course without fail, in the minimum # of jumps.

I was that "AFF ground course teacher". I am forever grateful to VillyBance for assisting. He did a bang-up job.

But, there's more to the story.

We used paddles in the landing area for canopy flight direction. I was the paddle-chump in the middle of the landing area. All was well and good except for one minor problem...the student could find neither me nor the paddles.

So, while I was out there frantically waving fluorescent-orange paddles around trying to get him to turn towards the DZ, he, on his own, put his canopy down between power lines, a chain-link fence and a row of trees in the neighbors back yard. Oh, did I mention the 7-8 dogs in the back yard...one of which was very vicious?

We saw him heading towards the yard and the DZO called the homeowner. Joe homeowner ran out and tackled the vicious dog just before the student landed and when we got there, the owner and the dog were wrestling in a big cloud of dust while the student, quite calmly, was rolling his lines and was completely unaware of the wrestling match going on.

We got the student out of the fence in a hurry...just in time before the dog won the match and pinned the owner.

When I went through student progression we had a big white arrow (probably 15 foot long) that was on a pivot. It was used to provide directions and guidance. It was hard to miss and you could clearly see it from the plane on the way up - so the added bonus is it could be pointed out. We only ever had 1 student that I know of that "couldn't see the arrow" and flew off into the sunset. I think this would be better than paddles but might be hard to put together for a 1 off.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[MikeTJumps 4]

There was a deaf AFF I at the original Spaceland named Fred Goebels. I will alert him to your request. I also have a fully typed out course that I could send you if you want it for AFF L1. E-mail me back and I'll scan it in and send it to you.

Mike Turoff
Instructor Examiner, USPA
Co-author of Parachuting, The Skydiver's Handbook

[ciscobird 0]

I'm one of deaf guys Wendy worked with.

Not gonna repeat anything that has been said here but would like to add a couple of things.

Please try to write down or type out instead of relying too much on lip reading because it's common for a deaf individual to simply nod, nod, nod his head until you shut up even without understanding you completely, especially if he senses that you're getting frustrated.

It's ok to lip read words that you both have already gone over but for new piece of information, nothing beats writing/typing, it's foolproof and you can use the written material to "protect" yourself in case anybody accuses anybody of any misunderstandings.

I went through FJC twice, first time with Mike Turoff with Fred Goebels assisting. Fred, more or less, acted as an interpreter (despite the fact that he's deaf himself) relying on his own experience as a skydiver.

After putting my training on hold for a couple of years, I had to take the course again, this time writing/typing/emailing back n forth with Wendy before the course. Since I was the only student in the class, we had no problem communicating via photos, diagrams, and hand gestures.

When assisting with the landing portion:

Be sure to position yourself in an ideal spot in the landing area because on my first landing I went beyond where the instructor was standing so my head was craning to look behind while I was trying to land-awkward, ended up landing on the runway pavement.

Good luck with this deaf individual. Please keep in mind that everybody is different and try to be flexible! Make sure that he understands what you are trying to say WITHOUT putting any pressure on him.

[riggerrob 558]

Quote

Quote

It'd also cost him $200 more

I'm not insensitive to the expense, but what's the value in an extra measure of training to hopefully help him avoid injury on his first jump?

........................................................................

Because tandem is by far the best "hanging harness" available.
Tandem is also a great way to help students build a mental image of the perfect landing pattern.
Finally, tandem is the best way to help any student survive (stay alive) those first jump jitters.

Rob Warner
static-line instructor since 1982.
IAD instructor since 1984
tandem instructor since 1986
Progressive Freefall Instructor since 1990