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SRI85

GOpro with low jump number

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The first thing to do is to develop your flying skills -- you want to be good enough at no-contact work to film anyone else, no matter how erratically they're flying. You also have to be completely responsible for your own altitude awareness -- it's nice to say that you're warned by the group your filming tracking off, but sometimes the group doesn't do that until too late for reason.

Hang out in the video forum, talk to them, just as you would hang out at the campfire at the end of the day to talk to skydivers. And after you've done it once, remember that many people can do something once. But good video means that you do it every time, not just occasionally.

Which means that those skills you've been practicing should be thoroughly solid before you add the complication of video. Flying and altitude awareness are your survival skills; they're more important. Be really, really good at them (don't just fail to die :ph34r:), then when you add video you'll be good at it, too, a whole lot sooner.

Wendy P.



The reason for the camera would basically only be a POV for my own and 2 way debriefings.
I have no intention of filming groups id rather be in the group. Later on(much) I would like to film groups and tandems maybe.

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>The reason for the camera would basically only be a POV for my own
>and 2 way debriefings.

Most jumpers who want to start doing video early use this justification. Unfortunately, per DSE's recent compilation of camera problems with small-format cameras, that has not proven to be safer than other types of camera usage.

Being in the group AND filming the group is more complex than doing either one alone. I'd suggest that when you're ready to do video, get with a good video flyer and dedicate a bunch of jumps to filming a type of skydiving you are familiar with. Nothing else, just video. No turning points or tracking off; take the center for breakoff.

If at that point you're doing 4-way, get a GOOD 4-way team (one that won't squirt all over the sky) and work on filming them. Start very shallow so you can be on a similar level. Practice all the myriad details of flying with the camera - turning it on and off, verifying operation, sighting the group. Do that until you're comfortable with it. Once that happens, you'll have added a basic skill that you can build on as you go on to more complex dives.

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Attach a cheap ringsight to your helmet. Get used to that. When you're ready for a camera, you'll be used to the distraction of the ringsight.



I personally disagree with this advice 100%. In fact, I try to talk new camera flyers out of adding ringsights to their helmets right away. Ringsights seem to be the biggest snag hazard on a camera helmet. Sure, snags aren't the only danger of jumping a camera, but they are a big factor. Read the incident reports... I don't remember an actual camera snag even though there are so many awful setups out there. But there have been fatalities caused by ringsight snags, and many more entanglements that didn't lead to fatalities.

I recommend only adding a ringsight when you are sure you need one. I personally added mine when I was doing 4-way video and my team decided to go to nationals. The typical reason I hear recently is that people don't want to put a mark on their $100 sunglasses that they wear all day.

A cutaway system is critical when a ringsight is being used as well. Many people believe they don't need one because they're using a gopro or other small camera. It's BS. Adding a ringsight to their current, non-cutaway-equipped helmet is just asking for trouble.

Get the skill to fly a camera, then fly the camera and get used to it, then add the ringsight if you feel it's necessary.

Dave

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clarification... Start jumping a ringsight at say 175-190 jumps. Work with a "GOOD" camera flyer on proceedures. My idea was not for those with 25-50 jumps>>>

Learning to fly, if you aspire to wear a camera, might also mean learning to fly with a ringsight. The idea is to work up to the camera at an APPROPRIATE rate.
Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

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Attach a cheap ringsight to your helmet. Get used to that. When you're ready for a camera, you'll be used to the distraction of the ringsight.



I personally disagree with this advice 100%. In fact, I try to talk new camera flyers out of adding ringsights to their helmets right away. Ringsights seem to be the biggest snag hazard on a camera helmet. Sure, snags aren't the only danger of jumping a camera, but they are a big factor. Read the incident reports... I don't remember an actual camera snag even though there are so many awful setups out there. But there have been fatalities caused by ringsight snags, and many more entanglements that didn't lead to fatalities.

I recommend only adding a ringsight when you are sure you need one. I personally added mine when I was doing 4-way video and my team decided to go to nationals. The typical reason I hear recently is that people don't want to put a mark on their $100 sunglasses that they wear all day.

A cutaway system is critical when a ringsight is being used as well. Many people believe they don't need one because they're using a gopro or other small camera. It's BS. Adding a ringsight to their current, non-cutaway-equipped helmet is just asking for trouble.

Get the skill to fly a camera, then fly the camera and get used to it, then add the ringsight if you feel it's necessary.

Dave



A small grease pencil with a little X on the left lens works well for me, it's cheap, rubs off for the drive home and no snag hazzard. ;)










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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clarification... Start jumping a ringsight at say 175-190 jumps. Work with a "GOOD" camera flyer on proceedures. My idea was not for those with 25-50 jumps>>>

Learning to fly, if you aspire to wear a camera, might also mean learning to fly with a ringsight. .



I still disagree...
- Few people wearing camera use a rinsight.
- A ringsight by itself is a distraction
- A ringsight is a snag hazard

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The idea is to work up to the camera at an APPROPRIATE rate.



Yes, but that means:

1- Learn to fly
2- Learn to fly well
3- Learn to fly with a camera
4- Learn to fly well with a camera
5- Install a ringsight on your helmet if you need it.

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It's you that doesn't get it.

Who the fuck are you to tell me I am being "stupid" when my DZO and S&TA have watched me jump and are happy with how I am doing?




Well, according to PD you are in the "Expert" category for wing loading and jumping their 2nd highest performing canopy.

http://www.performancedesigns.com/docs/W-L_Interpretations.pdf

And completely off the chart for Brian's recommended canopy and wing loading.

http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf

But what the hell do these people know:)
You should call PD and Brian up and ask them their opinions? I bet the word "stupid" come up in their opinion.



OK I'll stop it.

Sorry.
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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A small-format camera is the primary cause of a fatality in the BASE world.
Although it's not a skydive, it *is* relevant.
Next we're gonna hear from a defender about how subterminal speed, larger PC, bridle length, or some other factor played a big role too.
Bottom line (for me) is this;
-Someone died due to a bridle entangled with a small camera on their head, and the deceased was apparently very, very experienced as both a skydiver and base jumper.

Other factors probably did contribute, Are you certain you've got the experience and know-how to cope with them when/if they show up on your jump?
Be safe out there
###############

29 September 2010 | 01:16:37 PM | Source: AAP


An Australian woman who died BASE jumping in Malaysia got her parachute tangled around a helmet-mounted camera and only managed to free it at the last second.


Stunned onlookers could only watch in horror as Kylie "Buffy" Tanti from Pheasants Nest, in the NSW Southern Highlands, plunged to her death on Tuesday.

She had jumped off Malaysia's second tallest building, the 165.5 metre Alor Setar tower, in Alor Setar, northwestern Malaysia, as part of a training session.

A friend of Ms Tanti's said her pilot parachute, designed to catch the air and yank out her main parachute, got caught around the camera.

"She managed to clear this but it was too late," Gary Cunningham, spokesman for the Australian BASE Association told AAP on Wednesday

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1366716/latest-from-wire/

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I would say yes.
Experience with deployment while wearing a camera is apparently what was missing here.
I would also ask, WTH sort of body position are you in that you throw a bridle over the top of your head?
[:/]



I mean after the snag already happened.

as for the body position : priorities of freefall ?

pull
at correct alt
pref stable

but yeah you have to be pretty upside down and spinning for that to happen

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Would a large format camera , or more experience or know how have helped?

[:/]

RIP

Freak accident



The GoPro is one major snagpoint, other cameras would perhaps not be as much of a problem.
This is of course speculations but nobody can argue that even if they are smaler cameras (GoPro, Contour, Drift etc.) they are (usually) a much bigger snaghazard.

Condolences

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Would a large format camera , or more experience or know how have helped?

[:/]

RIP

Freak accident




People with larger format cameras make more effort snag proofing them. Or rather, the converse, people think they don't need to snag proof a smaller camera, because it's smaller and "less likely to snag" or the "mount will snap".
Skydiving Fatalities - Cease not to learn 'til thou cease to live

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Would a large format camera , or more experience or know how have helped?

[:/]

RIP

Freak accident




People with larger format cameras make more effort snag proofing them. Or rather, the converse, people think they don't need to snag proof a smaller camera, because it's smaller and "less likely to snag" or the "mount will snap".



Luckily I dont fall in that generalization :P

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I would say yes.
Experience with deployment while wearing a camera is apparently what was missing here.
I would also ask, WTH sort of body position are you in that you throw a bridle over the top of your head?
[:/]



It was a low handheld jump. So the PC starts right by your head.

eta....looks like there was a slight crosswind from right to left, which depending on the delay can blow your pc and bridle right into your helmet. I have had it happen before.
BASE 1384

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Would a large format camera , or more experience or know how have helped?

[:/]

RIP

Freak accident



The GoPro is one major snagpoint, other cameras would perhaps not be as much of a problem.
This is of course speculations but nobody can argue that even if they are smaler cameras (GoPro, Contour, Drift etc.) they are (usually) a much bigger snaghazard.

Condolences



Who are you kidding? Larger cameras(Not in a box and especially with stills) are much larger...making them a much larger snag point. The GP is small, and (usually) just mounted by a piece of 3M tape. If a GP was to get snagged, I'm willing to bet it would get ripped off in most cases (also because I have seen and heard of this happening at least 6 times).

I understand that this BASE jump had a snag on a GP, but what position was she in when she pulled? Was the GP screwed to her helmet? Anyways, my point here is this, and I think most old timers can agree, the major hazard with a small format camera is NOT the snag hazard, it's the distraction. I understand this has happened a few times, but compare it with the snags on larger format cameras and the GP's snags pale in comparison.

-Evo
Zoo Crew

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I don't know the answer to your question, I wasn't there.
However;
*generally* speaking, when one spends the money on a bigger/real camera and helmet setup, they also consider snag points, angles, etc. and I believe this minimizes much of the risk.

Being able to effectively walk into a grocery store, buy a camera with sticky tape and put it on a helmet changes the game quite a bit vs the person who has thought about which helmet, which camera, cage, control system, mounting device, and the cost factor has them talking to others about what they're doing. Half the small format cameras I see are "sneaked" on to jumps.

This past weekend I was at a boogie and saw several 200 jump guys putting on a camera and a wingsuit for the first time, or wingsuit for first time and using their GoPro.
One guy says "I don't want to put the mudflap altimeter mount there because that's where my GoPro goes." :S>:([:/]
One guy... I commented "Gee, you get to wear a camera on your first wingsuit jump? I didn't."

In other words, i think it's entirely a different mindset than the person putting on a "real" camera setup vs a blisterpack sticky mount.

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Would a large format camera , or more experience or know how have helped?



The point here is not that a larger camera would have been a better choice. Clearly a larger item would have more of a snag potential.

The point here is that a small format camera casued a snag that resulted in a fatality. To those jumpers who either ignore, or are unaware of, the distraction a camera can add, their defense that the GoPro is too small to be a hazard has now been proven to be incorrect.

Coincidentally, just this weekend I had a jumper snag his GoPro on my jumpsuit in the plane. This was several minutes before exit during gear checks, he looked down to inspect his rig and was unaware of his GoPro and hit my arm with it, snagging my jumpsuit. No damage to jumpsuit or camera, and the snag released quickly on it's own, but it never would have happened if his helmet was camera-free.

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but yeah you have to be pretty upside down and spinning for that to happen




Clueless



Why?

in a skydive in a stable position whats the chance of a bridle coming past your head at terminal?

Remember we are debating low jump skydiver with go pro , not base jumper.

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