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SRI85

GOpro with low jump number

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Would a large format camera , or more experience or know how have helped?



The point here is not that a larger camera would have been a better choice. Clearly a larger item would have more of a snag potential.

The point here is that a small format camera casued a snag that resulted in a fatality. To those jumpers who either ignore, or are unaware of, the distraction a camera can add, their defense that the GoPro is too small to be a hazard has now been proven to be incorrect.

Coincidentally, just this weekend I had a jumper snag his GoPro on my jumpsuit in the plane. This was several minutes before exit during gear checks, he looked down to inspect his rig and was unaware of his GoPro and hit my arm with it, snagging my jumpsuit. No damage to jumpsuit or camera, and the snag released quickly on it's own, but it never would have happened if his helmet was camera-free.



So you are basically saying "never ever where a camera if you want to be safe" ?

A larger camera would also have snagged - that was the jumper not thinking.

Experience or a larger camera wouldnt solve this fatality ,no matter how you look at it.

With the way she deployed we can however say it will be safer not wearing a camera -* in that specific situation* - but I dont think that situation can be used to say that a jumper jumping a contour or a go pro on a normal skydive with a proper snag free mount is not safe at all.

I must say that sticking a camera on with double sided 3m tape with the normal mounts supplied are nothing short of stupid. Rather build a proper mount with fibre glass. rounded edges , mounted flush with snap on tape , and cover the mounting edges to the helmet with duct tape. Any objections to that?

:)

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This is a really scary situation. There are multiple people in this very thread including myself who regularly freefall 270ft with gopros on our heads, feet, and wrists. If it snagged...well....we'd have one shot if we were fast to clear it, and its no guarantee even then.

The problem is the mentality combined with the snag hazard. Its so small people dont think about it and THAT is when the snag hazard is a problem.

Buffy knew what she was doing...and we still had this tragic ending. The REALLY scary part is almost every new base jumper now has a gopro strapped to themselves to capture the moment. I really hope we dont see a repeat of this at Bridge Day. Anyone that has been can tell you BD has some of the ugliest, nastiest, and scariest base deployments. I'e seen bridles around heads, between legs, around arms, pretty much everywhere. It's scary to think how many of those people are showing up with gopros this year.
"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero

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Experience or a larger camera wouldnt solve this fatality ,no matter how you look at it.

:)



I think in the Photo forum you'd find a LOT of people who would disagree with this statement, including myself.
Assuming that larger=greater snag potential is a mistake.

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So you are basically saying "never ever where a camera if you want to be safe" ?

A larger camera would also have snagged - that was the jumper not thinking.



Really? So if it would have been a larger camera inside a box with rounded edges and a slick surface then what would have snagged the bridle? These PCs are MUCH bigger and have a lot of drag.

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Experience or a larger camera wouldnt solve this fatality ,no matter how you look at it.



Really? I think you are dead wrong. On both counts. I've already addressed the camera issue, as far as experience goes....well....i am certainly more experienced now that I have learned about this fatality, so now I am better prepared.
"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero

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So you are basically saying "never ever where a camera if you want to be safe" ?

A larger camera would also have snagged - that was the jumper not thinking.



Really? So if it would have been a larger camera inside a box with rounded edges and a slick surface then what would have snagged the bridle? These PCs are MUCH bigger and have a lot of drag.

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Experience or a larger camera wouldnt solve this fatality ,no matter how you look at it.



Really? I think you are dead wrong. On both counts. I've already addressed the camera issue, as far as experience goes....well....i am certainly more experienced now that I have learned about this fatality, so now I am better prepared.



;) Thanks : hook, line and sinker

Ive never seen a stills camera in a box.

So with a proper mount , snagging no longer a danger *for any jumper perhaps* (as I so posted in the same post but you chose to cut out of the quote , thereby being a great "journalist") :P

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but yeah you have to be pretty upside down and spinning for that to happen




Clueless



Why?

in a skydive in a stable position whats the chance of a bridle coming past your head at terminal?

Remember we are debating low jump skydiver with go pro , not base jumper.



You seem to think that all your jumps will end with a belly to earth stable body position, try a premature on a horny gorilla or something and you have either main or reserve parts flying past your head.
1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

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So you are basically saying "never ever where a camera if you want to be safe" ?

A larger camera would also have snagged - that was the jumper not thinking.



Really? So if it would have been a larger camera inside a box with rounded edges and a slick surface then what would have snagged the bridle? These PCs are MUCH bigger and have a lot of drag.

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Experience or a larger camera wouldnt solve this fatality ,no matter how you look at it.



Really? I think you are dead wrong. On both counts. I've already addressed the camera issue, as far as experience goes....well....i am certainly more experienced now that I have learned about this fatality, so now I am better prepared.



and also , the snagging I was referring to was the snag of the jumpsuit in the post I quoted.

Please dont misquote me. :P

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;) Thanks : hook, line and sinker

Ive never seen a stills camera in a box.

So with a proper mount , snagging no longer a danger *for any jumper perhaps* (as I so posted in the same post but you chose to cut out of the quote , thereby being a great "journalist") :P



I cant find it at the moment but someone recently posted a cartoon about someone intentionally not speaking clear then acting all smug when they get their chance to clarify and say what they should have said in the first place. I really wish i could find it because it is very fitting here.

Its a combination of experience and snag. It's BOTH. You seem to only want to argue one or the other. No one here is siding with you except Sangi. (For all we know you are Sangi.)

Stop trolling. We are having a serious grown up discussion about people dying. Go troll in the speakers corner or bonfire.
"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero

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Please dont misquote me. :P



WTF are you talking about? SPEAK CLEAR. I didnt misquote you, you said a larger camera would also have snagged, that is what i addressed.
"If this post needs to be moderated I would prefer it to be completly removed and not edited and butchered into a disney movie" - DorkZone Hero

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Please dont misquote me. :P



WTF are you talking about? SPEAK CLEAR. I didnt misquote you, you said a larger camera would also have snagged, that is what i addressed.



I qouted the guy saying a jumper snagged his jumpsuit with a camera on his head.

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>in a skydive in a stable position whats the chance of a bridle coming past
>your head at terminal?

Depends on a great many things. If you ever do any AFF you will see a lot of pilot chutes hitting student's heads, feet, hands, the main side JM etc.

>Experience or a larger camera wouldnt solve this fatality ,no matter how
>you look at it.

Yes, it well could have. The experience simply to get your head down as you launch the PC might have prevented this incident.

But why bother? It's a TINY CAMERA with no snag hazard, right?

>Rather build a proper mount with fibre glass. rounded edges , mounted
>flush with snap on tape , and cover the mounting edges to the helmet with
>duct tape. Any objections to that?

Not at all! And the plus there is that it will likely take long enough that the jumper will build up the experience needed to safely jump it while they're building it.

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;) Thanks : hook, line and sinker

Ive never seen a stills camera in a box.

So with a proper mount , snagging no longer a danger *for any jumper perhaps* (as I so posted in the same post but you chose to cut out of the quote , thereby being a great "journalist") :P



I cant find it at the moment but someone recently posted a cartoon about someone intentionally not speaking clear then acting all smug when they get their chance to clarify and say what they should have said in the first place. I really wish i could find it because it is very fitting here.

Its a combination of experience and snag. It's BOTH. You seem to only want to argue one or the other. No one here is siding with you except Sangi. (For all we know you are Sangi.)

Stop trolling. We are having a serious grown up discussion about people dying. Go troll in the speakers corner or bonfire.



You elminated snag with the mount you spoke about.

I ASKED , IN THAT SITUATION if a SNAG occurs , would more experience help ? That was a general question about that specific situation.

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>in a skydive in a stable position whats the chance of a bridle coming past
>your head at terminal?

Depends on a great many things. If you ever do any AFF you will see a lot of pilot chutes hitting student's heads, feet, hands, the main side JM etc.

>Experience or a larger camera wouldnt solve this fatality ,no matter how
>you look at it.

Yes, it well could have. The experience simply to get your head down as you launch the PC might have prevented this incident.

But why bother? It's a TINY CAMERA with no snag hazard, right?

>Rather build a proper mount with fibre glass. rounded edges , mounted
>flush with snap on tape , and cover the mounting edges to the helmet with
>duct tape. Any objections to that?

Not at all! And the plus there is that it will likely take long enough that the jumper will build up the experience needed to safely jump it while they're building it.



Thanks Billvon. You are the only one really answering my questions. Albeit some *stupid*

But be it as it may I am learning all the way.

Students shouldnt where Go Pro's - Agreed x 100!
AFFI's shouldnt where a camera with snag hazard anyway , ive seen some ruff AFFI videos ;)

Getting a proper briefing about pitching your head down and rehearsing such deployments is a good start right?

Great about the mount , thats my plan. Been repairing fibreglass racebike fairings so my fibreglassing skills should be ok. :P - I like the idea of it more anyway. Nice box for a camera that sits flush everywhere. Got a goo idea for testing snagging through a web of lines. The contour will be better suited for skydiving , much lower profile . GO Pro sits WAY to high up.

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but yeah you have to be pretty upside down and spinning for that to happen




Clueless



Why?

in a skydive in a stable position whats the chance of a bridle coming past your head at terminal?

Remember we are debating low jump skydiver with go pro , not base jumper.



I'm an AFF instructor plus a fun jumper and a BASE jumper. I've skydived with people with jump numbers ranging from 0 to 20,000.

I've watched many people with the same jump numbers listed in your profile (currently listed is 67) pull in very weird body positions. Back sliding, on their side, just throwing violently with a ridiculous amount of body english putting them unstable... It's pretty amazing how stable these particular people think they are sometimes. These same people complain about their pack jobs. Acrobatic pulls are not as uncommon as you may believe.

On skydives, I've absolutely watched bridles go all around the area a camera is mounted. Burbles, weak tosses, short bridles, etc

I pull out to the side and let go. Chances are, I'm not going to snag my go pro or other camera. BUT... in my earlier years due to lack of altitude awareness, I've also pulled directly out of stand ups. Other camera flyers have snagged parts for whatever reason so I'm not immune to it either.

I can easily go into how the BASE jumper could have snagged the bridle on her camera. My guess is probably accurate too, but it's not important to discuss it here.
My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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I ASKED , IN THAT SITUATION if a SNAG occurs , would more experience help ? That was a general question about that specific situation.



I've given more thought to cameras after reading the incident thread on the other board.

From all accounts (that I've read) the jumper in question was very experienced (fairly new to base?) and I doubt more skydiving experience would have helped...it this case she just needed more time and did not have it.[:/]

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So whats everyones thought on jumping with a go pro camera, and having less then 100 jumps? I know the sim says 200 jumps, but i kinda feel this is outdated and doesnt consider how small cameras have gotten. The biggest thing i hear is that it is a snag hazard. Well if the go pro is mounted in the very front of the helmet , and i keep my head slighty down, i think a snag would be pretty tough to encounter. Im just looking to get a POV type footage and not really film others.



Instead of giving my "thoughts", I'll just provide you a link:

http://www.flyingchipmunk.com/skydiving/small-format-camera-incident/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=small-format-camera-incident

BASE death that took place yesterday ... bridle entaglement with the helmet mounted GoPro [:/].

Now that we got the "GoPro will snap right off during an entaglement" out of the way, before we argue that in skydiving we got more time to deal with such situations, pehaps you'll want to consider this: what will 10 - 15 extra seconds buy you when your bridle is tangled with your small camera and you got no means to cut it away???

O

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I'm new (and arguably dumb) so don't flame me over this question......

Go Pro is a cheap HD camera that performs well for the price. Reason for popularity, yes?

If someone opts for the go pro due to price point it's unlikely that they will invest in a more "snag free" housing for the go pro because it cost more, yes?

Does this make the arguments surrounding how to make the go pro more snag free more or less academic?

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but yeah you have to be pretty upside down and spinning for that to happen




Clueless



Why?

in a skydive in a stable position whats the chance of a bridle coming past your head at terminal?

Remember we are debating low jump skydiver with go pro , not base jumper.



I'm an AFF instructor plus a fun jumper and a BASE jumper. I've skydived with people with jump numbers ranging from 0 to 20,000.

I've watched many people with the same jump numbers listed in your profile (currently listed is 67) pull in very weird body positions. Back sliding, on their side, just throwing violently with a ridiculous amount of body english putting them unstable... It's pretty amazing how stable these particular people think they are sometimes. These same people complain about their pack jobs. Acrobatic pulls are not as uncommon as you may believe.

On skydives, I've absolutely watched bridles go all around the area a camera is mounted. Burbles, weak tosses, short bridles, etc

I pull out to the side and let go. Chances are, I'm not going to snag my go pro or other camera. BUT... in my earlier years due to lack of altitude awareness, I've also pulled directly out of stand ups. Other camera flyers have snagged parts for whatever reason so I'm not immune to it either.

I can easily go into how the BASE jumper could have snagged the bridle on her camera. My guess is probably accurate too, but it's not important to discuss it here.



Please read the whole thread.

I do not intend on jumping with a Go Pro. I dont even like a Go Pro , I think they are not designed for skydiving - Please see my previous posts.

Im arguing the difference between a Go Pro and a normal sized camera for persons meeting the minimum requirements and are considered ready.

Also stated this in previous posts CLEARLY

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I'm new (and arguably dumb) so don't flame me over this question......

Go Pro is a cheap HD camera that performs well for the price. Reason for popularity, yes?

If someone opts for the go pro due to price point it's unlikely that they will invest in a more "snag free" housing for the go pro because it cost more, yes?

Does this make the arguments surrounding how to make the go pro more snag free more or less academic?



Well here your helmet and whole camera setup must be inspected by certain people before you jump. So you will need to snag proof it , no matter how many jumps or what license you have.

So in my case (NOT WITH A GO PRO) , the non snaginess of the helmet is TOP priority.

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In the olden days, like 5, 10, and more years ago, we would Gaffers Tape the hell out of our cameras to cover snag areas. It still works. I personally don't care how shiny my helmet is so I'll be covering it like I used to.

I have a Go-Pro also, it's great inside video. I'm also a BASE jumper.

Because of this incident, I will change the way my camera is mounted or cover the snag points.

===================================
A brief bit about doing a hand held BASE jump.

Think of throwing a dart. A wadded up pilot chute goes to bridle extension pretty well if it's bundled up and you toss it. If your body position is say 45 degrees head high, it's easy to get the PC in front and above you.

If you are exactly belly to earth, a forward toss will be apt to actually go below you. If you are slightly head low, it's very easy to toss it slightly below you. (then you just pass it and the canopy is yanked out the rig)

So, if there is a right to left cross wind, you push off nice and level or slightly head low (either one is common) a low toss could easily be blown to the camera mount.

Think of this also. People often hold the pilot chute next to their ear leaving slack in the bridle. You jump, air hits the bridle creating a loop, a partially down ward toss can cause a bridle snag. (it's worse if you old an open mushroom <=== canopy not in a wad)

For this reason, I hold the PC away somewhat. If I need to I back hand it to get it away from me. A back hand is really good for having to push out over something when the tendency is to be very flat to the ground or slight head low.

If there is a fairly strong right left cross wind, I just switch hands and throw with my left.
My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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Remember we are debating low jump skydiver with go pro , not BASE jumper.




I read the thread. I based my post on the sentence quoted above.

I didn't mention anything about what you may or may not do.You are asking the questions so I'm answering you the best I can. That's all.

Hope that helps
My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

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Remember we are debating low jump skydiver with go pro , not BASE jumper.




I read the thread. I based my post on the sentence quoted above.

I didn't mention anything about what you may or may not do.You are asking the questions so I'm answering you the best I can. That's all.

Hope that helps



Thanks

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...what will 10 - 15 extra seconds buy you when your bridle is tangled with your small camera and you got no means to cut it away???

O




1. You may be able to untangle it.

2. You may be able to remove the helmet and untangle, or cutaway if not a base jump.


An extra 10-15 seconds can be quite a bit when trying to sort out a mal.
*I am not afraid of dying... I am afraid of missing life.*
----Disclaimer: I don't know shit about skydiving.----

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