HALO Jumps

[simon021 0]

Very intersting. It makes it easier to understand the video of the skydiver crawling out the door and falling out the door while everyone watched and did nothing to stop him. In fact they helped him!

Seeing this guys reaction to the hypoxia really makes sense of that. It's incredible how he was SURE he gave the correct answers, and even mentioned how he thought he was outwitting them lol.

Pretty enlightening. Thanks for the links Lou.

[TomNoonan 1]

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how much are they?

Admittedly, they are very expensive, the price is in GBP, so it can fluctuate depending on your currency. Assuming your in the US, it's around $32,000USD for a tandem and in the low USD $20k range for sport jumpers.

I actually just wrote an article for Blue Skies Mag that helps explain the costs a little better, am submitting it today, so hopefully it will be published in an upcoming issue.

The primary reason for the high cost is simply the demands of getting aircraft, equipment and people into one of the most remote locations on earth.

The upside is that it's not just a jump ticket in the purchase price, it's a 2 week expedition into the Himalaya. Despite the cost, everyone that has ever jumped there and been a part of the expedition has said it was worth every penny.

Hope that info helps.

Namaste,
Tom Noonan

www.everest-skydive.com

[mchamp 1]

A very dangerous situation that might arise as well....srry don't know how to make it clicky

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXa4w4aYKEk

For info regarding lift ticket prices all around the world check out
http://www.jumpticketprices.com/dropzones.asp

[scruffy 0]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tXa4w4aYKEk

Peace, love and hoppiness

[Manuel1 0]

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>gotcha, cool, always wondered. thanks.

Please note that the cannula at 27,000 feet is definitely _not_ recommended, and is more a "we tried this and no one died" sort of thing. There are some pretty serious problems with time-of-useful-consciousness, hypoxic brain injury and decompression sickness at those altitudes without 100% O2.

A more common guideline is supplemental in-cabin oxygen up to 20,000 feet, and full-face demand O2 to 30,000 feet.

jsut like SCUBA diving, cept at altitude rather than depth

Yep. Both are caused by depressurization. Scuba -> during the ascent from depth. Skydiving -> during the ride to altitude. Same concept.

SCUBA divers develop DCS and AGE while skydivers develop aeroembolis.

The big difference is that the skydiver will experiance immeditate relief after returning to the earths normal atmospheric pressure of 14.7 psi, while the scuba diver will experiance a relief of DCE/AGE case through a decompression chamber only.

A cannula delivers only around 2-3 litres of O2 while a full face mask delivers 100% of O2. It should be around 4 hours of o2 saturation (breathing 100% o2) before you off load enough nitrogen, not 30 minutes. And then there is OXTOX (oxygen posioning) that you have to worry about also when you are saturating your self with 100% o2. Scuba divers are not able to breath 100% o2 below 20 feet of depth or they will oxtox and drown.

This conversation sounds like on another board that I am on (deco stop). Whoever can go the deepest is the coolest . I say, why go down to 300 fsw? Why do a jump at 30,000 AGL?

[LouDiamond 1]

Skydivers can develop DCS as well, although it usually manifests itself afterwards, ie:on the ground as much as 24+ hours later.


30 mins of prebreathing 100 % O2 using a full face O2mask without breaking the seal prior to passing through 10k MSL is what is required for all O2 operations at or above 18k ft MSL but below 30k ft MSL. For HAHO jumps at or above 25k but below 30K MSL prebreath is for 45 mns.

For jumps at or above 30k ft MSL but below 35k ft MSL one must prebreath 100% O2 for 60 mins at or below 10K ft MSL.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[kelpdiver 2]

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And then there is OXTOX (oxygen posioning) that you have to worry about also when you are saturating your self with 100% o2. Scuba divers are not able to breath 100% o2 below 20 feet of depth or they will oxtox and drown.

you can breathe 100% O2 @ 1atm for well over 24 hours. It's not a concern for skydivers. I'd be much more concerned about fire risk, or the biggest, not keeping it sealed up.

[Manuel1 0]

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Skydivers can develop DCS as well, although it usually manifests itself afterwards, ie:on the ground as much as 24+ hours later.


30 mins of prebreathing 100 % O2 using a full face O2mask without breaking the seal prior to passing through 10k MSL is what is required for all O2 operations at or above 18k ft MSL but below 30k ft MSL. For HAHO jumps at or above 25k but below 30K MSL prebreath is for 45 mns.

For jumps at or above 30k ft MSL but below 35k ft MSL one must prebreath 100% O2 for 60 mins at or below 10K ft MSL.

The DCS is manifested with the sudden change of pressure. One may noitce the sympthoms as much as 24 hours later. The military, science and medical communites disagrees on many aspects of DCS. Hell, they cant even on what the proper terms should be called (DCS, AGE, DCI) Even the predisposed factors suchs as body mass (fat tissure) tempurature, age, injuries and time at depth or altitude all are factors that increase injuries,but everybody has a different rate of o2 saturation and DCS predisposed factors. There ar no asbolutes in DCS. Once you take a hit, you are proven to be more predisposed for future DCS hits.

The conversation was Halo with a cannual or a rebreather, not prebrething o2 and my point was that the rebreathers or cannual are not a good ideas.

Now hypoxia should be discussed.

[LouDiamond 1]

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Now hypoxia should be discussed.

There are numerous threads on this already, some that go back several years. If you wish to read more on the topic of DCS in skydiving, there are also several mentions of it in those same threads, most of which have supporting documentation and or real world validation by phystechs and myself.

"It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required"
Some people dream about flying, I live my dream
SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING

[thrillstalker 0]

i guess thats going to go on my "bucket list."

"Never grow a wishbone, where your backbone ought to be."

[billvon 2,400]

> I'd be much more concerned about fire risk . . .

This, I think, is one of the biggest unanticipated risks of O2 usage in aircraft. O2 systems are often difficult and awkward to turn off (i.e. the ones under the Otter seats) - turning them off during, say, an electrical fire might be very difficult. And at the flow rates many skydivers use them at, they could turn a smoking wire into a disaster.

[Manuel1 0]

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And then there is OXTOX (oxygen posioning) that you have to worry about also when you are saturating your self with 100% o2. Scuba divers are not able to breath 100% o2 below 20 feet of depth or they will oxtox and drown.

you can breathe 100% O2 @ 1atm for well over 24 hours. It's not a concern for skydivers. I'd be much more concerned about fire risk, or the biggest, not keeping it sealed up.

If you are a certified scuba diver, you should ask your training agency for your money back.

The military and science divers (NOAA) are trained not to exceed a 1.6PPo2 limit. Recreational divers are trained to not exceed 1.4 limits.

At 100% o2 at 19 feet, you will be at a 1.6 PPo2 limit and at a much higher risk of oxtox.
The US Navy, years ago used a 2.1 PPo2 and with invent of the doppler and thier high incident rate of oxtox, they rethought thier dive charts.

[Manuel1 0]

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> I'd be much more concerned about fire risk . . .

This, I think, is one of the biggest unanticipated risks of O2 usage in aircraft. O2 systems are often difficult and awkward to turn off (i.e. the ones under the Otter seats) - turning them off during, say, an electrical fire might be very difficult. And at the flow rates many skydivers use them at, they could turn a smoking wire into a disaster.[/reply



o2 isnt flammable. Look on the labels and it will be a class2 (non flammable). It is an oxidizer and can enhance a burn. You dont hear too much on o2 fires.

Personally, I would be worried about Hypoxia. Not DCS or non flammable gases.

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[Ron 7]

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Scuba divers are not able to breath 100% o2 below 20 feet of depth or they will oxtox and drown.

That is not true, it depends on many factors and 20 feet is not some magical number... It is just an accepted standard.

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I say, why go down to 300 fsw? Why do a jump at 30,000 AGL?

Why SCUBA dive or skydive at all?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[Manuel1 0]

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Scuba divers are not able to breath 100% o2 below 20 feet of depth or they will oxtox and drown.

That is not true, it depends on many factors and 20 feet is not some magical number... It is just an accepted standard.

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I say, why go down to 300 fsw? Why do a jump at 30,000 AGL?

Why SCUBA dive or skydive at all?

That is right. They are standards based off of models and experiance. Why violiate them? You can SCUBA and skydive using proper standards to midigate the risky sports. I very seriously doubt that one can survive 33' of depth on 100% o2 with out injuries or death. So why advocate it?

[Ron 7]

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That is right. They are standards based off of models and experiance. Why violiate them?

And yet here you are bitching about others models and experience?

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You can SCUBA and skydive using proper standards to midigate the risky sports.

Yep and just as some think doing deco dives are stupid... Yet people who really know about them know they are not death on a stick... I wonder if you can recall when PADI thought Nitrox was a voodoo gas and anyone that wanted to dive it was an idiot? Funny that they now teach it.

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So why advocate it?

Why be the guy that once thought Nitrox was a voodoo gas and anyone that used it was asking for death?

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[mjosparky 3]

If done right using the right equipment the investment by people doing civilian HALO jumps is pretty high.

1. MBU-12P O2 mask with Airox III - $600 ea.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/53825637@N06/4975109375/

2. Helmet - $800 ea.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/53825637@N06/4975720740/

3. Bail out bottle – $200/400 ea.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/53825637@N06/4975720854/

4. 2 ea. O2 consoles for pre-breathing and O2 supply during ascent. – Big bucks.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/53825637@N06/4975720826/

Like a demo a high altitude jump is not just another skydive. Do some research into the Physiology of high altitude and its affect on the body. Going high is complicated and there are no pat answers on how to do it safely.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[sebcat 0]

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o2 isnt flammable. Look on the labels and it will be a class2 (non flammable). It is an oxidizer and can enhance a burn.

So I shouldn't worry about friction, static discharges or electrical faults in a somewhat closed oxygen enriched environment? Not trying to be an ass, just curious why you wouldn't worry about it. There's a lot of things that can act as fuel inside an aircraft, but maybe the oxygen concentration never increases much?

[kelpdiver 2]

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And then there is OXTOX (oxygen posioning) that you have to worry about also when you are saturating your self with 100% o2. Scuba divers are not able to breath 100% o2 below 20 feet of depth or they will oxtox and drown.

you can breathe 100% O2 @ 1atm for well over 24 hours. It's not a concern for skydivers. I'd be much more concerned about fire risk, or the biggest, not keeping it sealed up.

If you are a certified scuba diver, you should ask your training agency for your money back.

The military and science divers (NOAA) are trained not to exceed a 1.6PPo2 limit. Recreational divers are trained to not exceed 1.4 limits.

At 100% o2 at 19 feet, you will be at a 1.6 PPo2 limit and at a much higher risk of oxtox.
The US Navy, years ago used a 2.1 PPo2 and with invent of the doppler and thier high incident rate of oxtox, they rethought thier dive charts.

Well, shit, in that case, your high school should ask for it's diploma back? Are are you really so eager to prove to us you know something about diving that you don't understand that 33ft = 2atm of pressure, 0ft = 1atm?

I said 100% at 1atm. If you really have a clue on the subject, it's obvious that would be the PPO2. IOW, sea level, where the skydivers will be prebreathing. If they dug a really deep mineshaft, they might get over 1.1, but that is not a likely scenario, is it?

BTW, my nitrox card has 1996 on it, and a 4 digit #. And it wasn't some coddled training that had recreational diving segment from "scientific" or "military" diving.

[fasted3 0]

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I very seriously doubt that one can survive 33' of depth on 100% o2 with out injuries or death.

Commercial divers routinely breath pure oxygen at -40' to decompress.

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I say, why go down to 300 fsw? Why do a jump at 30,000 AGL?

I say, why not? I've done both, and I'm glad I did.

But what do I know?

[MooU 0]

I have done 2 HALO jumps - The first was a tandem (a birthday gift) at 29500 ft. and the second I did solo at 31500ft. I loved them both and would recommend the experience.

They were both done with Mike Mullens and his plane - the tandem was out at his DZ and the solo was at Rantoul.

Full HALO gear was used and I pre-breathed oxygen for 45 min. prior to take off and then all the way to altitude. I jumped on a bail out bottle. The 2min. 10 sec. free fall was amazing. The topography and curvature of the earth and the morning sunrise are memories I will treasure forever.

The jump was explained to me like this - the first part of the jump is high altitude and really about all you can do (very few oxygen molecules to push against) is hold a box man position and enjoy the view but after about 15000 feet it's just like a regular skydive and you set up your landing pattern accordingly.

Good luck to you - I hope you find your HALO.

TPM #59 POPS #9849 PMS #477

[azureriders 0]

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Is the one extra minute of free fall really that different and worth THAT much money? What is the whole experience like? ***

I have done several any where from 26 - 30 grand as a videographer for HaloJumper.com. If they are going up and dont need me, I sit on the ground rather than paying to do it again.

I also love night jumps, but when Kevin (owner of HaloJumper.com) put on Night Halos at our DZ, I did not find the need to pay the money to put the two things together even though I enjoy both.

If I had never done one, yes I would pay the money for the one time thing and would recommend it to you or anyone else interested.

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[billvon 2,400]

They were pulling your leg. You can skydive at 30,000 feet as easily as you can at 3000 (although the 'hill' is a bit longer.)

[MooU 0]

Interesting you should say that - during the Rantoul HALO I tried turning 360 degrees, wanted to get a full view of the horizon and all that, and found myself turning about as fast as I usually do - no difference between 27000 and 9000. I always wanted to ask someone about that. Thanks.

TPM #59 POPS #9849 PMS #477

[chuteless 1]

Reading the posts on this, I am amazed at how many differences there are. It seems like everyone has their own thoughts, and few appear to be based on actual HALO jumps.

I have done 7 or 8 Halo jumps from 22,120 up to 36,916 ft, and only had to abort one jump at 21,500 for oxygen equipment failure. On that jump, my brother was aboard and he was facing slightly away from me. He turned towards me to speak, and both his eyes were blood red...absolutely NO whites. I told another jumper behind me to tell the pilot we have an emergenecy an to take it down immediately.



On several jumps over 30,000 ft ( one at night) I had built an inexpensicve but with all the funtionality I required, a console with multiple hose attachments. There was only two of us jumping, and we both had Canadian Air Force oxygen masks, and the Pate suspension system to hold the mask to our helmets.( a great system to be sure)

When we reached altitude, I told the other jumper to disconnect his console hose and activate the bailout bottle.

We opened the door, and left the pilot alone for the ride down. He dropped the retractable landing gear so we could launch off it.

Our helmets were Jet jockey helmets, and I fell about half way down before pulling the visor down in front of my face. I wasn't wearing goggles.

The runways at Pearson Intnl Airport at Toronto were seen as a light grey color, and the whole airport was lit up. The Control Tower held a 747 off until we got down and then it came in.

We landed beside the runways. Rick lost his contact lenses, and had to guess when to pull.

I wore a sensitive altimeter and a non sensitive one as well., and carried a barograph under my front mounted reserve.

In fact, all out equipment was donated by a friend in the military who ran the shool of aviation medicine for the military.

For the console in the aircraft, all one needs is a large tank of oxygen, with a reducer regulator to break down the pressure from 2000 psi to about 600 psi, which can then be directed to your mask and you can breath the power pressure.

The bailout bottles are 2000 psi, and it is necessary to forcibly exhale against that pressure, while taking in the oxygen is under pressure and no problem. I had a box of brass nipples that are broken to reklease the oxygen, and I made a system whereby I could reload a bailout bottle in about 10 minutes.

For all of my HALO jumps I opened at about 2000 ft agl.

I never had to pay a dime for any of the jumps with one exception, that was the night jump 30,571 Ft...it cost me $75.00 for two jumpers.

Anyone interested in doing HALO should take a High Altitude Indoctrination course before making such a jump.

You will be taken to simulated altitude and your mask removed to show you the dangers of hypoxia.

I have taken that course about 7 times over the years, and although mine were free, it is a good investment for such a jump.

Best of luck to anyone who makes a HALO, its a good log book entry after all those 7500 - 12000 foot jumps.

Bill Cole D-41 Canada