EVs, Aspirations vs Reality

[JoeWeber 2,299]

VinFast.

[billvon 2,400]

On 1/19/2024 at 3:34 AM, brenthutch said:

6 poor cold weather performance 

Interesting study out of Norway (where, despite the "understanding" of anti-EVers everywhere, they have both a lot of cold weather AND a lot of EVs) - 

During the latest cold snap, the on-road service company Viking recorded how many EVs needed assistance vs how many gas cars needed assistance.  Their data shows that, per car, gas cars need assistance almost twice as often as EV's.

Thus, the reality is that EVs have better cold weather performance than gas cars.  From the article: (translated from Norwegian)
==============
For Setrom, the answer is completely clear: "Electric cars are better in the cold."

He explains that 13 per cent of the cases with starting difficulties are electric cars, while the remaining 87 per cent are fossil cars. Setrom says that 23 percent of the cars in Norway are electric cars.  "This means that electric cars are almost twice as good as fossil cars in the cold."
===============

https://www.tv2.no/nyheter/innenriks/klart-darligst-i-sprengkulden-helt-ekstremt/16370146/

[SkyDekker 1,122]

On 1/19/2024 at 4:11 PM, JoeWeber said:

People are constantly giving up wealth and resources, their kids college funds, and staying in debt to drive a car they think impresses their friends and neighbors when maybe a million other people drive the same stupid car. A freakin' car.

Maybe. I love my car, puts a smile on my face every morning when I start it up. So I can understand people wanting to spend money for a car that they enjoy.

 

The dog's car on the other hand is just utilitarian.

Edited January 23 by SkyDekker

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

14 hours ago, billvon said:

Interesting study out of Norway (where, despite the "understanding" of anti-EVers everywhere, they have both a lot of cold weather AND a lot of EVs) - 

During the latest cold snap, the on-road service company Viking recorded how many EVs needed assistance vs how many gas cars needed assistance.  Their data shows that, per car, gas cars need assistance almost twice as often as EV's.

Thus, the reality is that EVs have better cold weather performance than gas cars...

Oh there you go again.

Using facts. Data.

And you think you can counter bigotry and prejudice with THOSE?!?!

I just went through my first major snow and cold snap with my Bolt.

On the snowy & slushy roads, I used a fair amount more power. The extra rolling resistance takes power to overcome. No different than with an ICE car, but I get instant feedback and accurate measurement. 

In the serious cold (highs single digits above, lows down to about ten below), I used more power. Part of that is the battery doesn't do as well in the cold, part of it is that the car was heating the battery, part of it was that I was using the car's heater to keep from freezing my butt off.
Until last week, I almost exclusively used the heated wheel & seats, with the HVAC on very low just to keep the insides of the windows clear of condensation.

In any case, the driving I did came nowhere near running the battery out. The worst day (both quite cold and crappy roads) used about 18kWh for a trip that was taking 11 or 12 in warmer weather. Battery holds 66, but I only have 55ish available (I only charge to 85%).

I was a bit anxious about how it would work in that sort of weather. Not really worried, but I'm glad I have hard data now.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

1 hour ago, SkyDekker said:

Maybe. I love my car, puts a smile on my face every morning when I start it up. So I can understand people wanting to spend money for a car that they enjoy.

 

The dog's car on the other hand is just utilitarian.

OK, I'll bite, what is your car?

[SkyDekker 1,122]

7 hours ago, JoeWeber said:

OK, I'll bite, what is your car?

Nothing too fancy; Audi S5, but I like it. Smile on my face every morning.

The dog's car is a Honda Fit.

[Stumpy 256]

I think I've said it before - I think cars are going to be like watches eventually. The every day ones will be cheap, capable, and electric (quartz casio equivalent) And the expensive ones for collectors will be objectively worse in almost every way but have more emotion associated.
I have built this thing - its all sorts of fun but my next  proper everyday car will be electric.

 

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

4 hours ago, Stumpy said:

I think I've said it before - I think cars are going to be like watches eventually. The every day ones will be cheap, capable, and electric (quartz casio equivalent) And the expensive ones for collectors will be objectively worse in almost every way but have more emotion associated.
I have built this thing - its all sorts of fun but my next  proper everyday car will be electric.

I'm there. 

I got the Bolt back in November. 

My 'fun' car is this;

Edited January 24 by wolfriverjoe

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

For whatever reason, the format won't let me put text below the pic, so I get to double post.

There have been claims that EVs are so heavy they destroy the roads.
Well, my Bolt goes 3500#. 
Which is about 200# more than the 928 pictured above.

And about 2200# LESS than the Cayenne it replaced.

I've received my electric bill for December. My utility's website allows me to see the previous 2 years of bills. 
My electric use for any given month varies very little year to year.

So I've got a good baseline, and can make a decent estimate of what charging the car is costing me (I have only charged at home so far).

$35-$40 per month.

Compare that with ~15mpg (premium) in the Cayenne. 
I was paying ~$150/month for gas in the winter when I only drove that (928 & motorcycle get put away in the winter).

[ryoder 1,384]

4 hours ago, Stumpy said:

I think I've said it before - I think cars are going to be like watches eventually. The every day ones will be cheap, capable, and electric (quartz casio equivalent) And the expensive ones for collectors will be objectively worse in almost every way but have more emotion associated.
I have built this thing - its all sorts of fun but my next  proper everyday car will be electric.

 

Caterham 7?

[Stumpy 256]

5 minutes ago, ryoder said:

Caterham 7?

Similar - not a caterham though, they are waaaay too expensive for a toy.
This is much more self build by a company called MK - its a miata 1.8 engine and running gear running about 160bhp on an aftermarket ECU.

 

Edited January 24 by Stumpy

[ryoder 1,384]

22 minutes ago, Stumpy said:

Similar - not a caterham though, they are waaaay too expensive for a toy.
This is much more self build by a company called MK - its a miata 1.8 engine and running gear running about 160bhp on an aftermarket ECU.
 

I was coming down the road between Echo Lake and Idaho Springs (CO) one day and saw a Caterham 7 with a "For Sale" sign on it. Being a huge fan of "The Prisoner", I had to stop. Well, it looked exactly like a 7 until standing next to it, I realized the engine was in the rear! I'm still not sure what the story was on it.

[Stumpy 256]

3 minutes ago, ryoder said:

I realized the engine was in the rear!

Huh thats weird.
Althogh I have been trying to work out how I could fit a tesla motor in the rear and the batteries under the hood...

 

[Phil1111 911]

My new cable provider added FOX. So yesterday at the same time every news channel was covering the E. Jean Carroll verdict. On FOX not a peep. Instead it was the invasion of cartel members, criminals, insane asylum residents. All being kept out of Texas by razor wire. They didn't provide pictures of Biden but he was hiding around every corner.

Today a "writer and author" rented a EV to take a 160 mile trip in California. Car ran out of power and had to be abandoned. At the last report of the FOX "journalist reporters" the rental car was still abandoned on the side of a rad because there are no charging stations to be found. Once again Biden was responsible for the hills and distances within California.

Sorry Wendy I don't think negotiations with the new GOP is possible.

[brenthutch 383]

Little known fact,

95% of EVs are still on the road…the other 5% made it home 

[billvon 2,400]

Anti-EV types love to claim that EVs run on coal, thinking that will "own the libs."

Unfortunately for them, the new power we need for EVs (and heat pumps, and bigscreen TVs, and whatever else we come up with) will come primarily from projects like this, which generates more power than a typical nuclear reactor:

Terra-Gen and Mortenson have announced the activation of the Edwards & Sanborn Solar + Energy Storage project, the largest solar-plus-storage project in the United States. Mortenson served as engineering, procurement, and construction contractor for the project. 

The project is a true renewable energy behemoth, spanning 4,600 acres, comprised of 1.9 million US-made First Solar panels. It holds a capacity of 875 MWdc solar, and nearly 3.3 GWh of energy storage. It has a 1.3 GW interconnection capacity. 

https://www.pv-magazine.com/2024/01/22/largest-us-solar-storage-project-goes-online/?fbclid=IwAR3q4IPJVNK6BztObFCsEc2Isu47d5KE5HKkkR9aqVLUl4NrgYHvv-RPlFY

[gowlerk 1,912]

7 hours ago, billvon said:

The project is a true renewable energy behemoth, spanning 4,600 acres, comprised of 1.9 million US-made First Solar panels. It holds a capacity of 875 MWdc solar, and nearly 3.3 GWh of energy storage. It has a 1.3 GW interconnection capacity. 

That is a big project. 7 square miles of desert needed. California is not the only state that can do this, but not every state can. I found this interesting page on CA energy sources. It's already 2 years old so it doesn't include this facility coming on line.

 https://www.energy.ca.gov/data-reports/energy-almanac/california-electricity-data/2022-total-system-electric-generation

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

9 hours ago, billvon said:

Anti-EV types love to claim that EVs run on coal, thinking that will "own the libs..."

Like most of the garbage that they spew about EVs, this is also a lie. 

And even if the EV is powered by coal generated electricity, it's cleaner than an ICE car.
Mostly due to efficiencies of scale of power production and propulsion efficiency of an EV vs thermal efficiency of the ICE.

 

Quote

"The idea that electric vehicles or electric heat pumps could increase emissions is essentially a myth," said lead author Dr Florian Knobloch, from the University of Nijmegen. "We've seen a lot of discussion about this recently, with lots of disinformation going around..."

Source:  https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikescott/2020/03/30/yes-electric-cars-are-cleaner-even-when-the-power-comes-from-coal/?sh=b95728e2320b

[billvon 2,400]

3 hours ago, gowlerk said:

That is a big project. 7 square miles of desert needed. California is not the only state that can do this, but not every state can.

Yep.  Solar farms are viable in about half the country, based mainly on weather.  Wind is viable in about 10% of the country - but those "islands of wind" are close to most places in the US.  Hydro is a mainstay in the Northwest, and geothermal potential is concentrated in the Southwest.

There are a lot of options.

[billvon 2,400]

The top selling vehicle in the WORLD in 2023 was . .  the Tesla Model Y.   Again, here in reality.

https://www.motor1.com/news/706258/tesla-model-y-worlds-top-selling-vehicle-2023/

[wmw999 2,122]

5 hours ago, billvon said:

Yep.  Solar farms are viable in about half the country, based mainly on weather.  Wind is viable in about 10% of the country - but those "islands of wind" are close to most places in the US.  Hydro is a mainstay in the Northwest, and geothermal potential is concentrated in the Southwest.

There are a lot of options.

Poor Florida.

Wendy P.

[lippy 771]

2 hours ago, wmw999 said:

Poor Florida.

One of the most versatile phrases in the English language 

[normiss 622]

14 hours ago, lippy said:

One of the most versatile phrases in the English language 

I've long preferred "FloriDUH", and I'm a Floridian. Floriduhian? 

[normiss 622]

FoMoCo today: As we prepare for Ford EV access to Tesla Superchargers, we’re excited to confirm that Mustang Mach-E and F-150 Lightning customers in the U.S. and Canada will be able to receive a complimentary Fast Charging Adapter from Ford starting this spring. More info on how eligible customers can reserve theirs will be shared soon.

[brenthutch 383]

On 1/29/2024 at 1:26 PM, billvon said:

The top selling vehicle in the WORLD in 2023 was . .  the Tesla Model Y.   Again, here in reality.

https://www.motor1.com/news/706258/tesla-model-y-worlds-top-selling-vehicle-2023/

That was 2023.  Now for something from 2024.