B license, jumping with a tandem?

[blueraincap 0]

I have recently completed a B license and my friend is planning to do a tandem. I am wondering if it is okay for me to jump together with a tandem (he with a jumpmaster, and me solo).

[yoink 321]

No.


Best thing to do is to arrange to be on the same load as them, give them a big thumbs up before letting them see you exit, and then meeting them on the ground for a beer.

[labrys 0]

yoink

No.


Best thing to do is to arrange to be on the same load as them, give them a big thumbs up before letting them see you exit, and then meeting them on the ground for a beer.

^ This

It doesn't matter *how* skilled you are. If you ask the TI to ignore his rating requirements, you're putting that TI in a bad place. If something completely out of your control happens to make all hell break loose, you're another variable that the TI has to deal with. Respect your friend and the TI enough to not ask anyone to make an exception for you.

Owned by Remi #?

[blueraincap 0]

so a tandem can only be done "individually"?

[labrys 0]

Quote

so a tandem can only be done "individually"?

We don't seem to be on the same page.

ETA: No, there are rules that the tandem gear manufacturers require TIs to follow to keep their ratings. One of those set of rules addresses how much experience another jumper should have before being allowed to jump with the tandem pair. If you don't meet the requirements, you shouldn't ask the TI to let you jump with him.

Owned by Remi #?

[xijonix 0]

What are the requirements for different manufacturers?

[yoink 321]

blueraincap

so a tandem can only be done "individually"?

A tandem can be completed with other skydivers of sufficient experience.

I believe (but may be wrong) that this is determined by the tandem manufacturer and is commonly a minimum of 500 jumps.
Additional skills commonly required are a certain level of currency and experience in relative work and then discretionary approval by the TI / DZO.

Regardless, 'just getting your B' suggests you have nowhere near the skill or experience to jump with a tandem. Not only would you probably not get near them, but you'd actively be a danger to the tandem pair - even if you don't believe it.
A tandem is not an ordinary skydive.

Don't worry about it. You don't want your friend looking at you in freefall anyway! They should be experiencing the sights and sounds which you can then have fun talking over after.

Seriously - they'll get a massive buzz just out of seeing you go first.

[DougH 270]

Could you pull it off safely? Yes, with decent flying skills, getting a proper briefing, and using your brains.

Can you kill or maim yourself, the instructor, your friend, or all of the above? Yes, it has happened in the past.

The recommendations are there for a reason. They may exclude people that could safely jump with a tandem, but better to have the high bar than put a student at risk.

You may not have decent flying skills, you may fly like a tunnel instructor but be dumb as a box of rocks. Better to just stick by the rules and not have exercise case by case judgement.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[skyjumpenfool 2]

^^^^This
I watched a gal talk her way onto a tandem skydive. She was not as current or skilled as she thought. I was flying camera and she scared the hell out of me and the TI. Her son was the PAX and he never saw her anyway.

She was everywhere except where she was suppose to be. At one point, she was dangerously close to the drogue. There is good advice above. Let the tandem student enjoy the skydive experience. Don't "horn in" on that experience.

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[ridebmxbikes 0]

it depends on the dz. one use to let me chase the tandems once i had my A license, it was either that or do a solo, i would only get on level about 20-30 feet out and just watch, never tried to get close. i knew the actual rules so i was just being cautious.
another dz wouldn't let me chase a friend doing a tandem after i had 300 jumps.

you really just have to ask and I'm not talking about the guy that just got his tandem rating. talk to the dzo and/or the s&ta.

just watched a guy ask a newer tandem master and he was allowed up until the dzo found out and ripped him a new @$$. just ask the RIGHT person.

if you don't ask then the answer is always no and if they say yes then don't believe them!

[Doug_Davis 0]

blueraincap

so a tandem can only be done "individually"?

No, but you will need to ask the DZO or TI to find out what the manufacturer or DZO's requirements are. Asking here wont do you any good.

[gowlerk 1,912]

From the Sigma Manual:

SIGMA TANDEM SYSTEM OWNER’S MANUAL
Page2:X Section 5: Student Techniques • Chapter 3 - Other Activities

These guidelines are not optional. They must be followed, or the Tandem Instructor and Tandem rig owner will be in
violation of the User Agreement under which Tandem jumping is operated and will consequently no longer be
allowed to legally perform Tandem Jumps.

PARTICIPANTSQUALIFICATIONS
For any relative worker to accompany a Tandem pair, the following criteria must be met:
1) Relative worker must have a minimum of 500 relative work skydives; or
2) Relative worker must be either a current Tandem Instructor or a current AFF jumpmaster.
3) Relative worker must have made at least 100 relative work jumps in the last year.
4) Cameramen must meet all the above guidelines, and in addition, must have at least 100 camera jumps.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

The whole manual is available at the UPT website. Tandem is serious business, you should learn about it there, not here.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[pchapman 261]

As people have noted, every place is different.
Plenty of dropzones don't exactly follow some tandem manufacturers' very strict rules, but many follow the spirit of the rules:

Unless both the TI and the DZO know that you are a completely competent belly flier / relative work jumper, well past being a newbie, you are unlikely to get to jump with a tandem.

[potatoman 0]

The typical answer is no.

Some will, some won't. If you just got your B, you are probably gonna get a no no, but try your luck and keep it safe.

You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is.
Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum"
Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD.

[tkhayes 126]

One of the early tandem fatalities was a low-time jumper colliding with and killing the tandem passenger on an opening collision. I believe it was the jumpers mother that was the passenger that was killed.

I cannot remember, it might have been Illinois back in the mid-80's

[nigel99 144]

blueraincap

I have recently completed a B license and my friend is planning to do a tandem. I am wondering if it is okay for me to jump together with a tandem (he with a jumpmaster, and me solo).

First of all - let people know what country you are in

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[Joellercoaster 6]

Doug_Davis

Asking here wont do you any good.

Why not? It seems like there have been plenty of good, applicable answers so far.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[ChuckMartin 0]

Because on here he will get the rules and what the book says from the manufacturers and the USPA. He will also get weather on not people think it is a good idea or not. What he wont get is a real answer. Is it a good idea? No. Has it happened and does it still happen all the time? Yes. In the end it will be up to the DZ and the TI. Just like when people ask about cameras, wingsuits, and swooping on here. You should wait but a lot of people don't. Think about it this was too. If you are not in place your friend might spend the whole jump looking around for you and not enjoying himself. So unless for some reason you waited until you had over 500 jumps to get your B just try to be on the plane with him and meet him up on the ground. Also him you do decide to go and the DZ and TI let you remember you are putting a lot of people at risk. People have lost ratings for stuff like this.

[labrys 0]

Quote

Because on here he will get the rules and what the book says from the manufacturers and the USPA. He will also get weather on not people think it is a good idea or not. What he wont get is a real answer.

My advise to him was to not even ask the TI or DZ. That leaves it up to him, not them.

Owned by Remi #?

[WILDBILLAQR 0]

tkhayes

One of the early tandem fatalities was a low-time jumper colliding with and killing the tandem passenger on an opening collision. I believe it was the jumpers mother that was the passenger that was killed.

I cannot remember, it might have been Illinois back in the mid-80's

It was mid-90's here in Az. Mike B was the TI. Mike spent 2 weeks in a coma. The passengers son was flying camera. He went though the main on deployment fracturing his moms neck.

To the original poster, Have your friend do his tandem, get his license, then you 2 can have all sorts of stupid fun!

----------------------------------------------
"Thats not smoke, thats BUCKEYE!!"
AQR#3,CWR#49

[BigMikeH77 0]

Quote

Have your friend do his tandem, get his license, then you 2 can have all sorts of stupid fun!

^^Best advice right there IMO.

[skyjumpenfool 2]

BigMikeH77

Quote

Have your friend do his tandem, get his license, then you 2 can have all sorts of stupid fun!

^^Best advice right there IMO.

^^^^ Yep!! There you have it Sports Fans. ^^^^^^

Birdshit & Fools Productions

"Son, only two things fall from the sky."

[Fast 0]

blueraincap

I have recently completed a B license and my friend is planning to do a tandem. I am wondering if it is okay for me to jump together with a tandem (he with a jumpmaster, and me solo).

As a tandem instructor I have never allowed anyone to come on jumps with me that I don't already know. People I have skydived with before and can vouch for their skills.

As a videographer, I have been put in situations where a "qualified" (per the manufacturer) person was allowed to come on a jump. These are BY FAR the scariest work jumps. I have been ran into, flown under, and had someone not track away. I used to be ok with it if the TI was, now I refuse these jumps. If I don't know the person and their skills (just like when I am TI) I will not allow others on the jump.

These are non-negotiable for me. I suspect they are for a lot of safety minded staff jumpers. There is plenty of time for shenanigans and the like on jumps that don't involve me producing work product or providing for the safety of another individual.

~D
Where troubles melt like lemon drops Away above the chimney tops That's where you'll find me.
Swooping is taking one last poke at the bear before escaping it's cave - davelepka

[D22369 0]

about 14 years ago we had a young jumper bring out his mother for a tandem, he had around 100 jumps and was quite skilled for his jump numbers, the TI and I *(videot) agreed to his request to lurk our jump, he was given explicit instructions on what to do/not do.

My only indication I was going to be hit was a split second of ...something that flashed in Daves expression right before impact

the hit was incredible and came from above.

I used up one of my 9 lives that day.

he could have easily centerpunched the tandem and fouled the drogue.

I lived because I was lucky.


I learned my lesson the hard way - low time jumpers have no business in the air with a tandem - hell, some experienced jumpers lack the skills to fly with them too.

Its not just another skydive

Roy

They say I suffer from insanity.... But I actually enjoy it.

[rwieder 0]

Quote

As a tandem instructor I have never allowed anyone to come on jumps with me that I don't already know. People I have skydived with before and can vouch for their skills

Heck, just let them stand on top of the container and hang onto the drogue lanyard. J/K!

Best-
Richard