Audibles during AFF

[dontbounce 0]

OK, So i screwed my 1st jump. Got side tracked, inst pulled for me (thanks Phil). Is it "against the rules" to have an Audible during AFF Jumps? To be honest, having my inst pull for me scared the shit out of me and it took a whole lot of sack and a little bit crazy to do it again (AFF L1) the same day. I am glad I did, but I think I will be scared on Level 2 and spend the whole dive watching the needle drop.

I would feel A LOT more comfortable on AFF 2-7 knowing that I had some backup system to help keep me focused on my Alti. A little angel on my shoulder going "pssst!" time to check alti...

[NWFlyer 2]

I'm not sure if it's actually prohibited, but I believe that the vast majority of instructors *do not* want students using audibles.

Learning altitude awareness on your own without benefit of backup devices is a critical life-saving skill. Until you demonstrate the ability to do this on your own, without benefit of an audible, your instrucors are not going to clear you to self-supervise.

You lost altitude awareness on one jump, your very first solo jump. Don't beat yourself up about it; you lived you learned, and you went on to make another jump. You will learn this skill, trust me - your instructors will make sure that you do, or you won't jump without them.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[TALONSKY 0]

Part of your training is to build an internal time clock or altitude sensor, that is belly to earth you should have some idea of how long till pull time. If this was short cutted by relying on an audible to telll you when to pull you would never develop your internal time clock. So the answer is no I do not think any instructor will let you use an audible while going through training.
I know there is alot to take in when starting skydiving, just try to relax and it will all come to you over time and jumps.
Kirk

[Miami 0]

That back up system can weaken your own built in system...

Keep going without an audible...you will build a great habit of staying altitude aware and you will slowly build an internal clock. Using an audible this early in your jumping career will only work to undermine those things and hurt you in the future.

Talk with your instructors about it as well, they should be able to provide some great insight on this.
Hope this helps...

Miami

[dontbounce 0]

OK! Well, I figured as much, but I wanted to make sure...

Thanks guys!

[billvon 2,400]

>I am glad I did, but I think I will be scared on Level 2 and spend the
>whole dive watching the needle drop.

That's a good reason NOT to have an audible! If you do that you'll likely be fine. (And a jump where all you do is stare at the alti and deploy stable at the right altitude is much preferable to a jump where you do the level 2 TLO's but don't pull on time.)

[juggalo 1]

RELAX!! You are not the 1st student to do this on L-1
Remember on your next jump you'll have (or you should have) 2 other people to REMIND you of altitude if needed.
Exit COA at the top You should have ample time for your training portion of the jump. You can also check altitude during your team turns when going left if your alti is on your left hand/wrist. Try not to dwell on it but don't forget completely about altitude. If at any time you feel unsure CHECK it.
Good luck but remember to pull this time. haha
Again relax and you should be fine. First jump AFF is tough.
brew

waving off is to tell people to get out of my landing area

[rasmack 0]

Try to consider how you would actually react to the beep while in freefall. We do strange things when we are stressed. Are you sure you would be able to process the audible information correctly? What if there was 100 ft difference between the audible and the visual?

HF #682, Team Dirty Sanchez #227
“I simply hate, detest, loathe, despise, and abhor redundancy.”
- Not quite Oscar Wilde...

[daniel_owen_uk 0]

Defintely RELAX.

Check with your instructors, but I was taught you can even check you alti during the practice touches (think where your hand is).

Long as you check it at regular intervals, you won't need another device to tell you when it's pull time.

__________________

BOOM Headshot

[willhill 0]

Once, I had a Neptune beep at 1000K, like normal. Jumped at 14K and didn't hear anything after that. The battery went bad during the climb.
Don't rely on it exclusivly.

[jheadley 0]

I suggest to people I coach that they don't get audibles until at least 50 jumps. Learning altitude awareness is so important. I actually made 2 jumps today without an audible, the first time in a while. It was actually pretty nice, I was much more altitude aware than usual. I may do it more often.

[azureriders 0]

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had a Neptune beep at 1000K

that is equal to 189.39 miles, I take it you was useing a bail out bottle

[juggalo 1]

***Check with your instructors, but I was taught you can even check you alti during the practice touches (think where your hand is).

YES glad you said that I forgot to mention it. thanks!
If your alti is on your hand/wrist.
I'm not sure if anyone still uses chest mounts but some DZ'S could be.
Also I have seen references to the internal clock, this is good but its not going to develope for some time in new jumpers.
Jumping AFF at the early and really all levels the instructors should be there to give alti reminders.
But there are those students that get away(been there done that got the T-shirt)
So i hope that the instruction given follows basic procedures, when in doubt whip it out and stop the jump. In control altitude aware and stable basically.

Now for an old twist or input
Have you younger jumpers heard of the blue umbrella green bowl analogy?

Pretty much while you are at the top of a jump in your Peripheral vision you appear to be falling out of a blue umbrella. At the bottom and pretty much pull time you are falling into a green bowl. If you are watching the horizon or in your peripheral area of vision you will seethis transition. We were taught this when I was training partly due to lack of equipment and due to not depending on equipment. We didn't have AAD'S after student status except for our hands. HAHA
I remember one Instructor telling me you can smell the earth when you get close. Its true especially in the mid west.
But I digress pay attention but don't depend on technology to save your butt from becoming part of terra firma. Use all of your senses and all of your training.
brew

ps to you spelling nazis phttttrrrpp
I'm too lazy to use spell check

waving off is to tell people to get out of my landing area

[phoenixlpr 0]

I disagree. I've bought my Pro-track about #31. I had a total mal right after that, so I've heard the siren.

I think you don't need it for AFF.

[popsjumper 2]

There's been several mentions of "internal clock".

I think this is a bad thing for the following reasons:
1. Takes a "long" while to develop
2. Will get you into trouble when exit altitude differs
3. Will get you into trouble when fall-rate differs (belly-fly vs freefly, for example)

The solution?
Eyes (yes that takes time to develop also)
Altimeter

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[BenGriffiths 0]

**De-Lurk**

From a non-instructors Point of View - I wouldn't want a Student to jump with an Audible as they may develop a reliance on the Audible rather than their visual alti/own perceptions.

**Re-Lurk**

----------
Ben G
Still Sinking :-(

[Andy_Copland 0]

I've used a pro track for about 8 jumps now. I got it basically to log my jumps and lets face it, its nice knowing your fall rate and depoyment altitude (lets me work out how many feet it took for my canopy to be big, rectangular and sound.)

Saying that i've never been unaware of my altitude and dont rely on the beeps, i've always already been locked on eyeballing my alti and the ground before my warning beep at 5k. I think if you start using one early like me you really have to make the extra effort to configure your own senses.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[popsjumper 2]

Ahhhh and there's a good thing about audibles.
1. Logging jumps
2. Helping to train your eyes


But I would not recommend them for AFF students.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Andy_Copland 0]

Agreed

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[sundevil777 93]

I am very surprised that nobody has mentioned that an audible can be used for just the hard deck/flatline - screaming at you to save your life tone.

Of course a student should realize that they have reached their hard deck without it, but if they don't know it, and are passing through it at high speed, I'd much rather they be reminded than not.

It is easy to make it have only the last warning, and the instructors can set it for whatever altitude they want. You might think that students shouldn't wait for the flatline tone before cutting away - don't want them to rely on it, but I think it is much better to instruct them that they had better not be hearing that tone/they had better cut away before that tone, but if you do hear it....

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[magnio 0]

You do have a backup system for your AFF 2-7: Your instructors. Like with other backups: Don't rely on them, but trust that they will be there if you need to rely on them.

I forgot to check altitude at regular intervals on one of my first (3rd, perhaps, but it could have been later) AFF jumps, but my instructors never noticed... More important: I noticed myself, and I did check once I was stable (around 12000) and a little bit below 6000 ft. For a more experienced jumper this wouldn't mean much, but since I was supposed to check every 5 second or something like that I was quite stressed when I debriefed afterwards. I was too occupied with doing turns or something like that...

My instructors told me not to worry, they thought I had checked altitude and for some reason they didn't notice I didn't, but I stopped doing turns and stuff at the right altitude, and did correct wave-off and pull - and I never forgot to check it later. Now I have about 60 jumps, and I usually check after each manuveur - mainly to get an idea about how much altitude I loose, not because I am worried about suddenly being at 2000 ft.

I have only done a handful of jumps with other people yet, but I plan to get an audible soon, since I *know* I may get sidetracked if I concentrate too much (even if I shouldn't). I don't want to rely too much on it, so I am thinking about getting a pro-track and do some (solo) jumps with it strapped so I can't hear it, just to see the accuracy of my altimeter and how fast i actually pull, how much altitude I loose in my track etc.

Another reason for not putting it close to my ear yet is that I don't know how I will actually react if it beeps... I want to "test" it without having to hear it first, just to see if we agree about what height I pull at :-)

My last but not least reason for wanting an audible is a low pull I did about 20 jumps ago. I don't know what altitude I was on, but I am pretty sure my altimeter was at 3000 when I reached for the hackey (slow openings on my Spectre), and then I suddenly realized I was passing people under canopies. I am not sure if my altimeter got stuck or if my eyes were wrong, but the incident was awfully scary and is another main reason for getting an audible as backup.

[Orange1 0]

I also love the "toy" aspect of the pro-track.

It was suggested to me when i first got mine (about 30 jumps ago IIRC) that i set the first 2 warnings just below action time (say 200' below) so as not to become 'beep dependent' - so for example my beeps go off just after i turn to track, and as my canopy is deploying, not before i turn or pull. not sure if this is 'recommended' but it works for me - i use my visual and my eyes with the "comfort" of knowing the beep is there just in case. so far my protrack has been far more useful wrt fall rate calcs to figure out what weights to wear in RW dives!

Skydiving: wasting fossil fuels just for fun.

[Andy_Copland 0]

Its such a great toy isnt it

But seriously i never even thought of that, going to definately give it a go, cheers.

1338

People aint made of nothin' but water and shit.

Until morale improves, the beatings will continue.

[jheadley 0]

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I also love the "toy" aspect of the pro-track.

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I love my gadgets too. I just got a neptune for a visual altimeter and it's definitely fun to play with when i'm doing hop and pops from 13K

If you want to play with your pro track more, get Jump Track. Sometimes I do dives where I just go as fast as I can, then as slow as I can, just to see the graph.

• Quote

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[riggerrob 558]

When people get really scared, they go deaf, making audible altimeters useless.