RSL Hooked Up Wrong

[tbrown 26]

We spotted a nasty bugaboo on a load in the air yesterday. This guy sitting across from us had his RSL hooked to the large 3 ring on his harness. We pointed this out to him and he explained he'd put it there to stow it, as he didn't want to use the RSL. Fortunately a Master Rigger was also on the load and he explained to the guy that this arrangement would prevent him from being able to cutaway from a malfunctioned canopy, then he asked the guy again if he still didn't want to use his RSL, as his main riser had the appropriate ring for hooking the thing up. The guy THEN trid to hook the clip up to his 3 Ring cable housing, and the Rigger finally told the guy he had to either a.) hook the thing up where it belonged, or b.) stow it away under the reserve riser not hooked up to anything. The rigger then closed the clip up in the locked position and the guy stowed it.

The really spooky thing is the guy had already made one jump that morning with his RSL clipped to the large (harness) 3 ring.

Keep an eye on each other, it's frightening what you can find on thhe ride up.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

[NWFlyer 2]

That's some scary shit. What was his rationale for not using the RSL? Scary that he feels competent to make that decision yet not competent or knowledgeable enough about his gear to know how to safely disable one.

Scary, scary stuff. I wish someone coulda made him ride the plane back down.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[labrys 0]

I guess I'm really in for it but:

I'm just not seeing how having the RSL hooked to the large ring on the harness would prevent a cutaway, nor am I seeing why connecting the shackle to the hard housing would be a problem.

Have at me, but please have mercy. I've had a long weekend and more than a few beers.

Edit to add: I don't think having the RSL connected to the large ring is a good idea, and I can see that is might impede a cutaway, but I don't get the "would prevent" part.

Owned by Remi #?

[Hooknswoop 19]

Not as scary on the surface as you might think. I couldn't get the 3-ring to malfunction with a brass (larger than the SS version) RSL shackle attached to the larger 3-ring on a mini-ring system. Even better, I couldn't get it to malfunction when it was connected to the middle ring of a mini-ring system, with the bonus that the RSL would activate the reserve with it connected there.

I'm sure it could cause it to malfunction or delay the release, but with a bunch of attempts, I couldn't make it happen on the ground.

It is better to connect it to the cutaway housing that to tuck it behind the mud flap. It can and probably will come out and flop around when just tucked away. Connected to the cutaway housing keeps it secured and out of the way.

Below the surface, the jumper's lack of gear knowledge and willingness to make gear choices is a very bad combination. This jumper needs some gear education, preferably from a rigger.

Derek

[mark 102]

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I'm just not seeing how having the RSL hooked to the large ring on the harness would prevent a cutaway, nor am I seeing why connecting the shackle to the hard housing would be a problem.

The middle ring just barely fits through the large ring. Having the RSL shackle hooked to the large ring would make it harder for the middle ring to fall through.

However, like you I can't see that having the RSL hooked to the housing would be so bad (except for disabling the RSL), and I think having the shackle fixed to something is better than hoping that it's going to stay stowed under a riser or mudflap.

Mark

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

he middle ring just barely fits through the large ring. Having the RSL shackle hooked to the large ring would prevent the middle ring falling through.

Have you tried it?

Derek

[billvon 2,427]

>I'm just not seeing how having the RSL hooked to the large ring on
>the harness would prevent a cutaway, nor am I seeing why connecting
>the shackle to the hard housing would be a problem.

Depending on where the RSL sits and how the 3-ring is oriented when it opens, it can jam the second of the 3 rings when a cutaway is attempted. But it will usually still disconnect.

[mark 102]

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Have you tried it?

Nope, so edited my response to add waffling.

I hadn't thought about attaching the rsl to the middle ring. Does the big ring just act as another guide ring then?

Mark

[labrys 0]

I was compelled to go hook my RSL to my large ring and pull the cutaway handle as soon as I saw this because I couldn't visualize the problem.

When I tried it I could see the chance that the shackle would get in the way, but my middle ring cleared easily.

Owned by Remi #?

[billvon 2,427]

>I hadn't thought about attaching the rsl to the middle ring. Does the
>big ring just act as another guide ring then?

Yes - but - the velcro on the RSL may not unmate if the pull is directly along the mating interface. Again depends on geometry.

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

Nope, so edited my response to add waffling.

I hadn't thought about attaching the rsl to the middle ring. Does the big ring just act as another guide ring then?

I had assumed the shackle would prevent the 3-ring from working too as was surprised when I couldn't get it to jam, on the ground.

Right, the large ring acts as another guide ring.

To clarify, I do think it could jam, but it isn't guaranteed to jam like it looks like it would.

Derek

[nate_1979 9]

i dont jump a RSL anymore, and i dont intend to start doing it again, but I am getting the RSL re-installed on my Mirage because someone is going to be using it and they feel more comfortable with it installed.... That being said, my intention is to disconnect it when I jump that rig and attach it to the cut away housing... Have not seen anyone say this is bad yet, but i'd sure like to know any arguments against it. (other than the "just use the RSL" arguement).

Nate

FGF #???
I miss the sky...
There are 10 types of people in the world... those who understand binary and those who don't.

[councilman24 36]

I've caught at least two people hooking it to the large ring over the years.

While the outer diameter of the second ring isn't much smaller than the inner diameter of the large ring, the middle ring can turn and go through at an angle.

Still not the right place for it.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[faulknerwn 37]

I can't fathom anything wrong with putting it around the housing. I teach a lot of CRW so I've disconnected a lot of RSLs over the years, and that's where we always stow them. Tucking it under the riser has it inevitably coming out and flopping around.

W

[riggerrob 558]

This reminds me of a complaint from a customer, more than a decade ago.
I repacked her reserve, but left the RSL connected to the large ring on her harness.
I was not in the habit of repacking customers' mains back in those days.
Anyways, both she and her AFF JM boyfriend missed the mis-connected RSL. The jump went fine, but after the fact she decided that I owed her a refund because her 3-rings might have jammed.
I tried dozens of times to make a similar rig jam on table. I never succeeded in jamming 3-Rings on the ground and I never gave her a refund.
Remember that when the middle ring slips through the harness ring, it is usually edge-on, occupying only a fraction of the hole through the harness ring.
I also never touched her gear after that.
In conclusion, clipping an RSL to a harness ring may be a bad habit, but I can't get them to jam on the ground. Hooking it to a release housing is marginally better, but a customer decides to dis-connect his RSL then he is best off tucking it under a mudflap.

[bodypilot1 0]

I once stopped a Tandem Instructor/Master Rigger from exiting a C182, because he had clipped his students upper snap shackle from his students harness, to the large ring of the 3 ring cutaway system.
Mistakes happen. Check your shit before you exit. And have someone else check your shit too.



Be safe
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[tdog 0]

Hook,

On my vector 3 with Skyhook, I have hooked my RSL to the reserve cable housing when I have done RSL-less jumps... It seems out of the way and in a snagless location. To clarify, do you, as a rigger, see this to be a-ok???

The only "malfunction" I can see is that if somehow the reserve pilot chute gets bound to the RSL, the RSL is attached to the rig, and could create some kind of horseshoe... But, at the same time, lets say I went to my reserve without deploying and chopping my main, the RSL would be connected to the main, so this "malfunction" could exist if the RSL is hooked up to the main risers too...

T

[Hooknswoop 19]

Quote

On my vector 3 with Skyhook, I have hooked my RSL to the reserve cable housing when I have done RSL-less jumps... It seems out of the way and in a snagless location. To clarify, do you, as a rigger, see this to be a-ok???

Yes, I don't see any problems connecting it to a cable housing.

Quote

The only "malfunction" I can see is that if somehow the reserve pilot chute gets bound to the RSL, the RSL is attached to the rig, and could create some kind of horseshoe... But, at the same time, lets say I went to my reserve without deploying and chopping my main, the RSL would be connected to the main, so this "malfunction" could exist if the RSL is hooked up to the main risers too...

If you fire your reserve without deploying or chopping your main, the RSL won't do anything, connected or not. Even with your Skyhook, it won't cause any problems with a partial malfunction or a total if it is connected to a cable housing and not a main riser.

Nice work in the tunnel BTW.

Derek

[TrickyDicky 0]

I think the issue with connecting it to the large ring is that its just there as a potential. Im sure it wouldnt, but its just more risk, as it could jam it. Why reduce some of the middle ring space, when you can quite happily connect it to the hard cut-away housing.

UK Skydiver for all your UK skydiving needs.

[slotperfect 7]

I have caught this on other jumpers twice, both times on the ground. Although reading Derek and Rob's posts shows that it is difficult to demonstrate that the RSL connected to the base ring would impede/prevent a cutaway, I would never recommend that anyone store their disconnected RSL there. If there is even a remote possiblity that proper function of the 3-ring assembly on that side, why introduce that possibility into an emergency situation?

I have my RSL disconnected and attach it to the cutaway housing as well. In my opinion it is the best place for it. Shoving it unde the mudflap does not seem to work consistently - it seems to work loose and flop around (as mentioned in earlier posts).

Arrive Safely

John

[tdog 0]

Thanks, Hook...

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Nice work in the tunnel BTW

You should have seen me in the tunnel last night.

Taking a belly flier and getting him to freefly is hard... But I was able to fly on my back finally... But, then I was working on sit and lost my balance and flew up, jammed my knee a bit, and JP did an awesome save on my way to head down.

But we digress...

I understand that the RSL sits idol doing nothing if you fire your reserve only or if it is not connected to the main...

But, in a non-rsl rig, you strip away the reserve pin, likely so much you throw your handles thousands of feet away.

But, the RSL stays there, if unused, flapping around the flaps, near the reserve as it deploys...

I guess I never really thought about the very unlikely event that the RSL pin end becoming a snag hazard, should it be unused. However, in testing, obviously they had to design a system that would work in this state, because pulling your reserve without the main activating the RSL is "normal" within the design of the system, like if you can't find your hacky and have to go for silver...

[hookitt 0]

I'll echo a few responses.

After I told someone right here on this board that it will cause the 3 ring not to release, I tried it on the ground about 16 times before getting tired of it, and sure enough, it released. While it's not a good configuration, it's a lot less dangerous as it appears.

Also, if it is to be disconnected, then definately hook it to the cutaway cable and slide it down out of the way. Leaving it freely under the reserve riser is not a secure method.

The person wearing the rig could use some basic rigging instruction. The Master rigger should be asked to prove why it's not a good idea to hook it up to the cutaway cable. I disagree completely.

I do agree with ...

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Keep an eye on each other, it's frightening what you can find on thhe ride up.

Keep up the good work

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[livendive 8]

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I have my RSL disconnected and attach it to the cutaway housing as well. In my opinion it is the best place for it. Shoving it unde the mudflap does not seem to work consistently - it seems to work loose and flop around (as mentioned in earlier posts).

I've completely removed my RSL from my rig, but when it was still on there it was usually hooked around the cable housing to keep the end from flopping around, and then shoved down behind the mudflap to tension a bit of the slack.

Blues,
Dave

"I AM A PROFESSIONAL EXTREME ATHLETE!"
(drink Mountain Dew)

[mjosparky 3]

Good catch Tom,

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[Martini 0]

I hope you have been reading the responses here Krisanne. Interesting stuff aint it? Although I haven't had an RSL for years I stowed mine when disconnected on the cutaway housing. It really is OK as long as the slack RSL bridle can't become entangled with anything.

Sometimes you eat the bear..............