Hooknswoop 19 #1 January 13, 2015 Simple poll. Is your home DZ better than the average, average, or below average when it come to maintaining their jump aircraft. Derek V Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,928 #2 January 13, 2015 Your poll needs a "I am just a skydiver and have no objective way of judging the quality of aircraft maintenance" option.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lyosha 46 #3 January 13, 2015 How would skydivers know this and have a basis of comparison? I doubt many here are airplane mechanics... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justme12001 0 #4 January 13, 2015 ^ what they said Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #5 January 13, 2015 Look at the airplane. Is the paint younger than the skydivers? Is there a small puddle of oil under a piston engine? Is there no puddle under a turbo-prop engine? Are there any dings in the propeller? Do all the fasteners on the cowling close properly? Is the nose oleo strut clean? Do the tires still have tread? How thick are the brake discs? Are there any dents in the wing tips? Are there any fuel leaks under the wing? Do the fuel caps fit securely? How many dents in the right-side horizontal stabilizer? Is the windshield bug-free? How many instruments are still accurate? Does the door close easily with only one hand? Are there any exposed sharp edges near the door? How many seat-belts? Are the seat-belts long enough to wrap around skydivers? Are seat-belts anchored to the floor slightly aft of the jumpers? Are there mats or carpet on the floor? Those are all maintenance items that a pilot is supposed to inspect every morning, before his/her first flight. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Croc 0 #6 January 13, 2015 Well above average. My DZ is Jerry's Skydiving Circus (Explore Freefall) in Franklin, IN. The DZO owns all his planes, and is an FAA A&P rated mechanic."Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so." Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DBCOOPER 1 #7 January 14, 2015 CrocWell above average. My DZ is Jerry's Skydiving Circus (Explore Freefall) in Franklin, IN. The DZO owns all his planes, and is an FAA A&P rated mechanic. Fox guarding the hen house...Replying to: Re: Stall On Jump Run Emergency Procedure? by billvon If the plane is unrecoverable then exiting is a very very good idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
justme12001 0 #8 January 14, 2015 I am just playing devil's advocate here...but, I know jumpers with hundreds/thousands of jumps that know little to nothing about the rig the jump. I mean to the point that they won't/don't know how to switch a canopy off risers. How can you expect them to even understand half of the things you just said. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimjumper 25 #9 January 14, 2015 Must be some exemption's on that list for DC-3's. I remember one memorable DC-3 flight where we might of had half of that checklist complete and we still went for it. "Hey, it seemed like a good idea at the time!" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #10 January 14, 2015 lyoshaHow would skydivers know this and have a basis of comparison? I doubt many here are airplane mechanics... Here's a clue. When I walk by the aircraft hangar and see the mechanic turning wrenches just about every time I arrive at the DZ I think that's a pretty good indicator of good maintenance. Here are some others... - SPOTLESSLY clean birds on the flight line - manifest telling me I won't have a particular plane to choose from for load organizing on any given day because it's down for maintenance - seeing planes in the aircraft hangar for maintenance that are leased to other DZ's and on, and on, and on. Conversely if a plane looks ratty beyond skydiving related scars, breaks down often, takes way more runway than similar birds, is the target of jokes, etc., take the hint. This post could go on for pages. The bottom line is that there are signs of how well the maintenance is being conducted on our planes. There are many, many signs of maintenance happening - or not - that are typically visible to any jumper assuming they are willing to pay attention. Another way is to ask. If the DZ does proper maintenance the DZO or mechanic will likely be proud of it and will gladly explain in detail how they comply with regulations and accepted practices. Ever thought about asking??? We get what we deserve. Demand you DZ stay in compliance and demand proof. Any business person worth doing business with should be glad that you are helping them show the skydiving community what a great job they are doing.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stayhigh 2 #11 January 14, 2015 Ha, in that regards Lodi gets an A.Bernie Sanders for President 2016 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jonstark 8 #12 January 14, 2015 ANY DZ that doesn't maintain their aircraft to very high standards has no business being in this business!!! Jon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NWFlyer 2 #13 January 14, 2015 Looks like Derek might've found his shit-stirring spoon somewhere in storage. "There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #14 January 17, 2015 Not exactly a bell curve. 75% of DZ's can't have better than average maintainence. As several people pointed out, skydivers don't really have any way to determine how well the aircraft are being maintained. I was an Apache attack helicopter crew chief for 6 years and I can't tell if the aircraft is being maintained according to the FAR's. Derek V Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #15 January 17, 2015 I disagree. I wrenched on Sikorsky Sea King helicopters for 6 years and learned to spot common signs of lazy maintenance: dirty oleo struts, puddles of mysterious blue or pink fluids under parked airplanes, ill-fitting cowlings, etc. However, we can agree that ex-military helicopter maintainers can be miserable at spotting FAR violations. I once tried to read the Canadian Air Regulations, but soon concluded that they were written by and for the liars ... er lawyers who hold most of the seats in parliament. IOW CARS are written by Vogons, and most mechanics will revert to chewing off their own legs in desperate attempts at escape. Footnote: Vogons are ficticious alien bureaucrats in the sci-fi book and film "The Hitch-Hikers' Guide to the Galaxy." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hooknswoop 19 #16 January 17, 2015 Agreed. Derek V Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SmokeJumper 0 #17 January 18, 2015 I have an A&P rating, but without access to the maintenance logs and the aircraft (apart from riding to altitude) I can not assess the airworthiness of the jump plane. I have faith that the professionals running the drop zone are following the regs. Just as I have faith that any commercial air carrier I fly on follows the regs and keeps their aircraft airworthy. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Croc 0 #18 January 18, 2015 DBCOOPER ***Well above average. My DZ is Jerry's Skydiving Circus (Explore Freefall) in Franklin, IN. The DZO owns all his planes, and is an FAA A&P rated mechanic. Fox guarding the hen house... "Here's a good specimen of my own wisdom. Something is so, except when it isn't so." Charles Fort, commenting on the many contradictions of astronomy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygypsie 2 #19 January 18, 2015 Hubby is pro & multi rated skydiver with 4000 jumps give or take. Before, & during 1st year or 2 he became involved in skydiving, he was an A&P w/ IA as Line Crew Chief & Night Supervisor for a major airline. * translated: Airframe & Powerplant MX with Inspection Authorization-Lead Mechanic His background came in handy many times on DZs we've been affiliated with. There has been a time or 2, he's either been 'discreetly' asked by a Pilot to come take a looksie & has taken off his rig for a few minutes. There have also been times he's discreetly taken a pilot &/or the DZO aside. There have been a couple times he (we) decided it best not to jump........................ He has now gone back into his position in Aviation Mx & Inspections, full time at a FBO exclusively with private & corporate jets: King & Queen Airs, Citations & Socota TBM-700s (e.g. to include Senators, Nascar racers & personnel, Larry The Cable Guy) . Just can't beat the benefits, hours, wage, no weather holds, drama free environment . Skydiving is now mostly part time TI, AFFI, staying current with ratings, fun jumps & occasional demo jumps. He now only utilizes his aviation ratings, off dz Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
diablopilot 2 #20 January 19, 2015 SmokeJumperI have an A&P rating, but without access to the maintenance logs and the aircraft (apart from riding to altitude) I can not assess the airworthiness of the jump plane. This. Observational indicators are of great use to make assumptions about the quality of maintenance, but knowing whether the aircraft is legal or not really takes access to the records and logbooks.---------------------------------------------- You're not as good as you think you are. Seriously. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theplummeter 14 #21 January 19, 2015 skygypsie Hubby is pro & multi rated skydiver with 4000 jumps give or take. Before, & during 1st year or 2 he became involved in skydiving, he was an A&P w/ IA as Line Crew Chief & Night Supervisor for a major airline. * translated: Airframe & Powerplant MX with Inspection Authorization-Lead Mechanic His background came in handy many times on DZs we've been affiliated with. There has been a time or 2, he's either been 'discreetly' asked by a Pilot to come take a looksie & has taken off his rig for a few minutes. There have also been times he's discreetly taken a pilot &/or the DZO aside. There have been a couple times he (we) decided it best not to jump........................ He has now gone back into his position in Aviation Mx & Inspections, full time at a FBO exclusively with private & corporate jets: King & Queen Airs, Citations & Socota TBM-700s (e.g. to include Senators, Nascar racers & personnel, Larry The Cable Guy) . Just can't beat the benefits, hours, wage, no weather holds, drama free environment . Skydiving is now mostly part time TI, AFFI, staying current with ratings, fun jumps & occasional demo jumps. He now only utilizes his aviation ratings, off dz Lincoln? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygypsie 2 #22 January 19, 2015 Lincoln? RE: "Lincoln?" Sorry [theplummeter], but don't know what you are asking ? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theplummeter 14 #23 January 19, 2015 I was just wondering if the hubby works in Lincoln, NE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skygypsie 2 #24 January 19, 2015 Nope, in WI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #25 January 19, 2015 Do the control cables look as old as the wings? The Australian Civil Aviation Authority recently announced that they are going to require replacement of all aircraft primary control cable fittings at 15 years. In the last seven years there have 48 reports of failed control cables. The root of the problem seems to be that SAE-AISI 303 Se and 304 stainless steel swaged fittings are susceptible to stress corrosion cracking. Stress corrosion is also called fatigue. Stress corrosion occurrs much quicker within smell of salt water. CASA is giving Australian aircraft owners three years to replace cables. Back in 2001 the (American) NTSB urged the FAA to implement repeated inspections of control cables. Who knew we would be flying jump planes long enough to wear out control cables and pulleys? In similar news, Australian airplane owners are moaning about having to replace seat-belts every ten years. I am not sure if that seat-belt "life" was written by Cessna or by CASA. When you consider all the wear and tear that tourists subject seat-belts to: UV light, friction, walking on, beach sand, salt water, vomit, sweat, etc. I can understand why commercial seat-belts can wear out in 10 years. OTOH seat-belts in a privately-owned airplane, only flown to church on Sundays, hangared, etc. could easily last 30 years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
