ryoder 1,384 #26 March 17, 2022 I just learned something new. This didn't affect me at the time because I was living in Indiana where we we stayed on standard time all year. The US Tried Permanent Daylight Saving Time in the ’70s. People Hated It Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,913 #27 March 17, 2022 2 minutes ago, ryoder said: I just learned something new. This didn't affect me at the time because I was living in Indiana where we we stayed on standard time all year. The US Tried Permanent Daylight Saving Time in the ’70s. People Hated It Changing the clocks twice a year is simply a way to help us take advantage of summer and to cope with winter. The further from the Equator you live the more sense it makes. It isn't that hard. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #28 March 17, 2022 2 hours ago, gowlerk said: Changing the clocks twice a year is simply a way to help us take advantage of summer and to cope with winter. The further from the Equator you live the more sense it makes. It isn't that hard. Agreed. But then again, changing times day by day (so sunrise always happens at the same time) wouldn't be that hard either, especially with modern calendars and clocks. The question is - is there a good reason to do it, even if it's not that hard? I have yet to see a convincing reason that changing times at all is important. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,913 #29 March 17, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, billvon said: I have yet to see a convincing reason that changing times at all is important. So the DZ can stay open till 10pm in the best part of the season where I live. Yet I don't have to wait till after rush hour for daylight at Christmas time. Edited March 17, 2022 by gowlerk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,048 #30 March 17, 2022 4 hours ago, gowlerk said: Changing the clocks twice a year is simply a way to help us take advantage of summer and to cope with winter. The further from the Equator you live the more sense it makes. It isn't that hard. Hi Ken, I would guess that you have not had an elderly mother that called you twice a year to come over & reset all of her clocks. Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,913 #31 March 17, 2022 1 minute ago, JerryBaumchen said: Hi Ken, I would guess that you have not had an elderly mother that called you twice a year to come over & reset all of her clocks. Jerry Baumchen No. But I wish I did. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #32 March 17, 2022 38 minutes ago, gowlerk said: So the DZ can stay open till 10pm in the best part of the season where I live. Yet I don't have to wait till after rush hour for daylight at Christmas time. But I had to wait until after rush hour for sunlight where I grew up. And nothing you can do with time is going to accomplish much in Anchorage, Alaska. There's no way to change time to make everyone happy. Which is why I think we shouldn't try. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,913 #33 March 17, 2022 3 minutes ago, billvon said: And nothing you can do with time is going to accomplish much in Anchorage, Alaska. And in San Diego you are far enough south that changing the clocks is only a nuisance. But for those of us in the middle it helps. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BIGUN 1,053 #34 March 17, 2022 We should go to Island or Stoner Time, Maaan. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,048 #35 March 17, 2022 23 minutes ago, BIGUN said: We should go to Island or Stoner Time, Maaan. Hi Keith, I think a lot of us ( including me ) are wasting a lot of time discussing this. 'I want my hour back.' Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #36 March 17, 2022 2 hours ago, gowlerk said: And in San Diego you are far enough south that changing the clocks is only a nuisance. But for those of us in the middle it helps. What does it help with? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,913 #37 March 17, 2022 13 minutes ago, billvon said: What does it help with? Ugh......having daylight fall during the hours of the day that it is more useful...... Yes, I know we could just change the start and end times of things to follow the seasons. But moving the clocks is easier. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,340 #38 March 18, 2022 3 hours ago, billvon said: What does it help with? I would much rather see the sun set after 8 in June & July than (not) see it come up before 4. I would also not like to see the sun come up after 8, even though it means it goes down before 5. For people who don't live far enough north to see a big swing in the length of the day, I understand it's more of a pain than it's worth. But there's a lot of people that live north enough that it's really nice. As noted, they tried it year round in the past. Lots of people hated it and a few kids got killed waiting for a bus in the dark. 6 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said: Hi Ken, I would guess that you have not had an elderly mother that called you twice a year to come over & reset all of her clocks. Jerry Baumchen I did (still have the mom, but she's now in a care facility, only has one clock and the staff takes care of it). 4 analog clocks, a wrist watch, the alarm clock, the stove and the car when she was still driving (had to pull out the manual & look up how every year). Once in the fall, once in the spring. Whoop-de-frigging-do. I have 3 analog clocks (including one of the old "Skydiving Magazine" altimeter face ones), a few analog watches, the stove and the car. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,384 #39 March 18, 2022 Seen today on the NANOG* mailing list: In a unanimous vote today, the US Senate approved a bill which would 1) Cancel DST permanently, and 2) Move every square inch of US territory 15 degrees to the east. LOL! *) North American Network Operators’ Group Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #40 March 18, 2022 4 hours ago, gowlerk said: Ugh......having daylight fall during the hours of the day that it is more useful...... Yes, I know we could just change the start and end times of things to follow the seasons. But moving the clocks is easier. Yeah, but for some people (early risers) light in the morning is more useful; for others (people who work late) having more light at night is more useful. Any clock change scheme makes the decision that one group is more important than the other. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,299 #41 March 18, 2022 17 minutes ago, billvon said: Yeah, but for some people (early risers) light in the morning is more useful; for others (people who work late) having more light at night is more useful. Any clock change scheme makes the decision that one group is more important than the other. Of course the obvious solution is to leave the cold northern climes in the fall for warmer southern locations until the situation improves more to your liking. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
headoverheels 291 #42 March 18, 2022 One's view on this is also shaped by where in the time zone you live. For decades, I lived sorta close the the west end of EST/EDT, which meant that the sun set ~55 minutes later for me than it did for someone just a bit to the west of me. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #43 March 18, 2022 12 hours ago, gowlerk said: Ugh......having daylight fall during the hours of the day that it is more useful...... Yes, I know we could just change the start and end times of things to follow the seasons. But moving the clocks is easier. Is not. It makes everyone do something for the benefit of the few who can't deal with the changing of the seasons. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #44 March 18, 2022 9 hours ago, wolfriverjoe said: I would much rather see the sun set after 8 in June & July than (not) see it come up before 4. I would also not like to see the sun come up after 8, even though it means it goes down before 5. For people who don't live far enough north to see a big swing in the length of the day, I understand it's more of a pain than it's worth. But there's a lot of people that live north enough that it's really nice. As noted, they tried it year round in the past. Lots of people hated it and a few kids got killed waiting for a bus in the dark. I did (still have the mom, but she's now in a care facility, only has one clock and the staff takes care of it). 4 analog clocks, a wrist watch, the alarm clock, the stove and the car when she was still driving (had to pull out the manual & look up how every year). Once in the fall, once in the spring. Whoop-de-frigging-do. I have 3 analog clocks (including one of the old "Skydiving Magazine" altimeter face ones), a few analog watches, the stove and the car. You come across like one of those who really believe you get more daylight by messing with a clock. They're just arbitrary numbers on an instrument, Shifting them twice a year does nothing. If a school doesn't want kids going to school in the dark, start school an hour later - problem solved. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,122 #45 March 18, 2022 37 minutes ago, kallend said: If a school doesn't want kids going to school in the dark, start school an hour later - problem solved I know; as long as one’s own group isn’t inconvenienced, right? Parents who have younger kids in school then have to petition their jobs to deal with the new start time, or “they should have thought of that before.” With the increase in the percentage of workers who work at home or on their own hours in a gig economy, it’s probably time to try getting rid of DST. But much of society is still coordinated by the synchronization of clocks; it’s a topic worth considering. Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #46 March 18, 2022 1 hour ago, wmw999 said: I know; as long as one’s own group isn’t inconvenienced, right? Parents who have younger kids in school then have to petition their jobs to deal with the new start time, or “they should have thought of that before.” With the increase in the percentage of workers who work at home or on their own hours in a gig economy, it’s probably time to try getting rid of DST. But much of society is still coordinated by the synchronization of clocks; it’s a topic worth considering. Wendy P. But DST is non-uniform and doesn't synchronize everyone's clocks. In fact it's doing the opposite, And it inconveniences the overwhelming majority for the benefit of a few who can't cope with arbitrary numbers on an instrument. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,913 #47 March 18, 2022 2 hours ago, kallend said: They're just arbitrary numbers on an instrument, Shifting them twice a year does nothing. They are not just arbitrary numbers. They are numbers that our lives are organized around. There is a reason we don't run the world on UTC and have everyone on the same shifts at the same time. We are still animals and are still ruled by the seasons and the Sun. Every year it's the same thing. In the spring a bunch of people start complaining about moving clocks and "losing" an hour. In the fall no one cares. That is how freaking short sighted people can be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,623 #48 March 18, 2022 56 minutes ago, gowlerk said: They are not just arbitrary numbers. They are numbers that our lives are organized around. There is a reason we don't run the world on UTC and have everyone on the same shifts at the same time. We are still animals and are still ruled by the seasons and the Sun. Every year it's the same thing. In the spring a bunch of people start complaining about moving clocks and "losing" an hour. In the fall no one cares. That is how freaking short sighted people can be. Of course they are arbitrary. Came from the Egyptians by way of Hipparchus. And if biannual time shifting is SO necessary, however do they manage in Arizona? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,913 #49 March 18, 2022 (edited) 40 minutes ago, kallend said: And if biannual time shifting is SO necessary, however do they manage in Arizona? I did not say it was necessary. I said it was helpful. Arizona is located further south which makes the seasonal variation of the day less extreme. In addition it is located in the western area of the time zone it is part of. So the early sunset time in the winter is moderated. In Canada the Province of Saskatchewan also stays on standard time year round. CST in this case The central zone is huge they are on the far west edge of it. And they are pretty far north, so the seasonal effect is more reasonable. Life has compromises. Edited March 18, 2022 by gowlerk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,123 #50 March 18, 2022 2 hours ago, kallend said: can't cope with arbitrary numbers on an instrument. Under that argument we should just get rid of time zones as well. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites