Ukraine

[SkyDekker 1,122]

Turns out Hillary Clinton was right.....

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/russia-ukraine-war-romney-gabbard-b2034983.html

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

16 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

"WASHINGTON — Russia asked China to give it military equipment and support for the war in Ukraine after President Vladimir V. Putin began a full-scale invasion last month, according to U.S. officials.

Russia has also asked China for additional economic assistance, to help counteract the battering its economy has taken from broad sanctions imposed by the United States and European and Asian nations, according to an official."

According to the Russian/Putin definition if China supplied aid it would be an act of war. I'm sure Xi will help is fellow dictator out of his current jam. A couple hundred billion now with low interest rates, say 15%. To be paid in oil at a 50% discount to the spot market.

Me thinks the vaunted Russian military machine. That the US military industrial complex has sold the world over the last 50 years, was oversold.

Hi Phill,

Make that 77 yrs.

Remember, at the end of the war in Europe, Gen Patton wanted to push the USSR back to their pre-wars borders.  The western allies were tired of war.

And, of course, the agreements that came out of the Yalta Conference; those 'agreements' that everyone signed.

Jerry Baumchen

[gowlerk 1,912]

18 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

I am unaware of any US forces that have been positioned in Europe as a direct result of the war in Ukraine. The presumption is that if the Europeans are willing to load armor on trains they would already have agreed to US troops and air assets. 

I was asking about US tactical nuclear weapons.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

1 hour ago, billvon said:

I heard a fascinating interview (I think it was on Sway) with a (formerly) Russian journalist who had just spent a week in Russia before returning to the US.  He talked about the state of broadcast journalism in Russia.  Some of the things he mentioned:

The Ukrainians are being portrayed as "Nazis" and the invasion deemed only a "special military action."  Journalists who report it as an invasion or a war are made to disappear.  He didn't imply that they were killed - but they are taken off the air and often arrested.

One Russian outlet reported that the special military action was going well, and that the pictures of people injured and killed on TV were "crisis actors" who were paid to act injured.  (Does that ring any bells?)

News reports often do not lead with the invasion.  Instead they lead with the "economic war" that the West is waging on Russia in a bid to take over Russia, then they spend no more than five minutes on the successful special military operation against the Nazis in their brother state of Ukraine.  He noted that the tone of the news hasn't changed at all.  Whereas on FOX and CNN and the like the news of the war is being reported in large type and with constant coverage, the Russian media is doing its best to make it seem like nothing is going on (other than the West's economic attacks on Russia, that is.)

He noticed two sorts of people there.  People who watched Russian media and were going on about their business normally.  Other people who had access to outside media (via the internet and apps that haven't been cut off yet) are preparing for the worst and often leaving.  He told stories of people he would visit on Tuesday and hear about their concerns on the invasion, and notice suitcases and passports out.  By Thursday they were gone.

This reminded me of another Russian journalist I read about - Peter Pomerantsev.  He worked in Russian television production, both entertainment and news, and regularly attended the news meetings where government officials told them what they could report on, and how it should be presented.  He now lives in the US and teaches political science at the Agora Institute, part of Johns-Hopkins.  He talks about watching FOX News, OAN and Newsmax and realizing how similar they were to Russian TV propaganda:

“It’s the same game.  It’s the same rhetorical tactics, the same intellectual tactics, the same psychological tactics.  There’s this kind of pop-postmodernism, where Sean Hannity will say things like objectivity doesn’t exist, everybody’s biased.  That’s exactly the same argument the Russians make."  He mentions a quote from Dmitry Kiselev, a news anchor and propaganda expert for Putin: "Objectivity is a myth that is proposed and imposed on us.”  Hannity's version of this was “I don’t pretend that I’m fair and balanced and objective,”

He also talks about how both Russia and right wing media present opinions from both sides to appear to be fair and balanced.  To not undermine their mission, they choose buffoonish carciactures of their opposition by using their resources to search out, elicit and even sometimes invent vapid opposing viewpoints.  "They turn everything into a Jerry Springer show. ... Essentially, Tucker Carlson has ‘idiot liberals’ on.” The primary difference is that Russia maintains buffoons who espouse the opposition's position to have on interviews; the right wing in the US mainly finds, edits and alters media clips of their enemies saying things they can spin as foolish.

It's interesting to watch the propaganda war unfold as quickly as the ground invasion did.

Hi Bill,

Re:  (Does that ring any bells?)

Reminds me of what was coming out of our involvement in Vietnam; until Walter Cronkite reported differently.

Jerry Baumchen

[gowlerk 1,912]

1 minute ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Bill,

Re:  (Does that ring any bells?)

Reminds me of what was coming out of our involvement in Vietnam; until Walter Cronkite reported differently.

Jerry Baumchen

Maybe Putin and the Russian media can see a light at the end of the tunnel.

[Phil1111 911]

26 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

I am unaware of any US forces that have been positioned in Europe as a direct result of the war in Ukraine. The presumption is that if the Europeans are willing to load armor on trains they would already have agreed to US troops and air assets. 

"And as we provide support to Ukraine, we're going to continue to stand together with our allies in Europe and send an unmistakable message that we will defend every inch of NATO territory with a united galvanized NATO," the US president said.

"That's why I've moved 12,000 American forces along the borders with Russia -- Latvia, Estonia, Lithuania, Romania et cetra... Granted, if we respond, it is World War three. But we have a sacred obligation on NATO territory... although we will not fight a third World War in Ukraine."

They are all positioned there now.

Canada has thrown the powerful might of its combat power into EU NATO as well. Including "a CP-140 Aurora long-range patrol aircraft, HMCS Halifax and 120 gunners as part of an artillery battery to Latvia. President Putin is alleged to have requested a double shot of Vodka when he heard of this Canadian contingent. To calm his nerves.

Edited March 14, 2022 by Phil1111

[JoeWeber 2,299]

17 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

I was asking about US tactical nuclear weapons.

Great question. I'll call and ask. 

[gowlerk 1,912]

18 minutes ago, JoeWeber said:

Great question. I'll call and ask. 

Alright then. Since you are too busy to do my research for me.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing

https://cnduk.org/resources/united-states-nuclear-weapons-europe/#:~:text=Approximately 150 American B-61,the Netherlands%2C Italy and Turkey.

Edited March 14, 2022 by gowlerk

[airdvr 197]

1 hour ago, JoeWeber said:

Great question. I'll call and ask. 

While you have him on the phone ask about the EV's that can go coast to coast on a tank of gas.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

55 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Alright then. Since you are too busy to do my research for me.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing

https://cnduk.org/resources/united-states-nuclear-weapons-europe/#:~:text=Approximately 150 American B-61,the Netherlands%2C Italy and Turkey.

Hi Ken,

Interesting tidbit from your 2nd link:  Both host country and the US would then need to approve the use of the weapons, which would be launched on the former’s (non-US) airplanes.

Jerry Baumchen

[gowlerk 1,912]

4 minutes ago, airdvr said:

While you have him on the phone ask about the EV's that can go coast to coast on a tank of gas.

EVs can go coast to coast on zero gas. FYI

[billvon 2,400]

1 hour ago, airdvr said:

While you have him on the phone ask about the EV's that can go coast to coast on a tank of gas.

I don't need to.  I have one.

[Phil1111 911]

An employee on Russia’s state Channel One television has interrupted the channel’s main news programme with an extraordinary anti-war protest. The protester, who was identified by Russian media as Marina Ovsyannikova, burst on to the set of the live broadcast of the nightly news on Monday evening, shouting 'Stop the war. No to war.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URTrP1xHpQA

 

 

[kallend 1,623]

3 hours ago, JerryBaumchen said:

Hi Phill,

Make that 77 yrs.

Remember, at the end of the war in Europe, Gen Patton wanted to push the USSR back to their pre-wars borders.  The western allies were tired of war.

And, of course, the agreements that came out of the Yalta Conference; those 'agreements' that everyone signed.

Jerry Baumchen

Churchill was overruled by Roosevelt.

[kallend 1,623]

3 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

Turns out Hillary Clinton was right.....

 

 

But her emails!

[metalslug 31]

On 3/12/2022 at 5:23 AM, gowlerk said:

I will give you that blaming every single weather event on CO2 is getting tiresome.

 

[metalslug 31]

1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

An employee on Russia’s state Channel One television has interrupted the channel’s main news programme with an extraordinary anti-war protest. The protester, who was identified by Russian media as Marina Ovsyannikova, burst on to the set of the live broadcast of the nightly news on Monday evening, shouting 'Stop the war. No to war.'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=URTrP1xHpQA

 

 

Her courage is admirable although I hope she finds it worth it balanced against the reach of the message. This lady now potentially faces 15 years in Siberia or worse. There have been indications that a great many Russians already know the truth via a huge increase in VPN subscriptions to bypass internet restrictions within Russia, a growing awareness of truth albeit still unwise to protest publicly.

[billvon 2,400]

46 minutes ago, metalslug said:

Her courage is admirable although I hope she finds it worth it balanced against the reach of the message. This lady now potentially faces 15 years in Siberia or worse. There have been indications that a great many Russians already know the truth via a huge increase in VPN subscriptions to bypass internet restrictions within Russia

Yep.  Unfortunately the end of e-commerce in Russia means many Russians can't pay for them any more.

[Phil1111 911]

Russia's wong wei cruise missiles have issues. So Russia launched 30 of its latest air launched cruise missiles at the Ukrainian training base yesterday. Only 8 arrived on target.

If nuclear war breaks out there should be about 6,300 Russian warheads total -1700(hits)=4600 warheads falling on Canada.Thats about one warhead every 650,000 square miles.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Phil1111

[Phil1111 911]

So Tucker Carlson, that would be the Rupert Murdoch/ President Putin's little puppet boy. Is spreading a new lie and using FOX to do it.

Ukraine has secret bio labs.Tucker: The Pentagon is lying about bio labs in Ukraine

The facts "The State Department said Ms. Nuland was referring to Ukrainian diagnostic and biodefense laboratories during her testimony, which are different from biological weapons facilities. Rather, these biodefense laboratories counter biological threats throughout the country, the department said.

Mr. Rubio made the same clarification in another congressional hearing on Thursday, noting that “there’s a difference between a bioweapons facility and one that’s doing research.” Which wasn't evidently clear enough for Tucker and FOX.

President Putin and President Xi must have some serious laughing bouts when they talk about America. How FOX, Murdoch and their Russian enablers endlessly sell conspiracy b.s. paid for by large US companies. Together with a smaller pillow company.

[headoverheels 291]

4 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

So Tucker Carlson, that would be the Rupert Murdoch/ President Putin's little puppet boy. Is spreading a new lie and using FOX to do it.

Ukraine has secret bio labs.Tucker: The Pentagon is lying about bio labs in Ukraine

The facts "The State Department said Ms. Nuland was referring to Ukrainian diagnostic and biodefense laboratories during her testimony, which are different from biological weapons facilities. Rather, these biodefense laboratories counter biological threats throughout the country, the department said.

Mr. Rubio made the same clarification in another congressional hearing on Thursday, noting that “there’s a difference between a bioweapons facility and one that’s doing research.” Which wasn't evidently clear enough for Tucker and FOX.

President Putin and President Xi must have some serious laughing bouts when they talk about America. How FOX, Murdoch and their Russian enablers endlessly sell conspiracy b.s. paid for by large US companies. Together with a smaller pillow company.

Tuckio Rose.

[olofscience 421]

8 hours ago, Phil1111 said:

If nuclear war breaks out there should be about 6,300 Russian warheads total -1700(hits)=4600 warheads falling on Canada.Thats about one warhead every 650,000 square miles.

Only about 1,000 warheads are deployed. Rest are in storage.

[ryoder 1,384]

This story has it all:

- The globally interconnected economy.

- Green energy.

- The Ukraine invasion.

Pueblo’s steel mill is an American success story. And it’s owned by Russians.

 

[kallend 1,623]

1 hour ago, olofscience said:

Only about 1,000 warheads are deployed. Rest are in storage.

Phew, that's a relief.

For a moment there I was worried.

[Phil1111 911]

29 minutes ago, ryoder said:

This story has it all:

- The globally interconnected economy.

- Green energy.

- The Ukraine invasion.

Pueblo’s steel mill is an American success story. And it was owned by Russians, now owned by Ukrainians as part of war reparations. .

 

FIFY

The latest from the Lincoln Project

QAnon, Ukraine and 'biolabs': Russian propaganda efforts boosted by U.S. far right

Russian and Chinese officials have also pushed the theory, which has reached mainstream conservative media in the U.S.

Edited March 15, 2022 by Phil1111