More sacrifices to the 2nd Amendment

[billvon 2,400]

47 minutes ago, billeisele said:

Maybe they should focus on the criminals rather than punishing the law-abiding citizens.

Unfortunately, with a gun, the time it takes to go from a law-abiding gang member to a criminal is measured in milliseconds - just long enough to pull the trigger.

I oppose laws that make it easier to arm law abiding gangsters.
 

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Maybe sanctuary cities, illegal immigrants, and state policies on crime and homelessness are part of the problem? 

Given that illegal immigrants have a far lower crime rate (both property and violent) than US citizens - no.

[winsor 186]

2 hours ago, billeisele said:

As reported by MSN yesterday - CA has some of the most stringent gun laws with waiting periods, registration, magazine limits, red flag laws, storage laws, a long-standing scary black gun ban, and universal background checks yet they had the highest number of active shooter incidents in 2021. 

Rather than do something effective the CA Democrats now want annual gun registration with a fee.

Maybe they should focus on the criminals rather than punishing the law-abiding citizens. None of what they've done solved anything unless one wants to argue that the killings would have been substantially more frequent and more deadly. If that was true they have bigger issues. Maybe sanctuary cities, illegal immigrants, and state policies on crime and homelessness are part of the problem? 

Maybe it's the culture, not the implement.  I'm sure the Tutsis weren't  reassured that Hutus weren't given to using firearms.

In this country, removing from consideration a very small number of subsets of the population, to include users of SSRIs, changes the statistics drastically.

z.B.:

Edited March 25 by winsor

[wmw999 2,122]

1 hour ago, billeisele said:

CA has some of the most stringent gun laws with waiting periods, registration, magazine limits, red flag laws, storage laws, a long-standing scary black gun ban, and universal background checks yet they had the highest number of active shooter incidents in 2021. 

Highest number makes sense; California has the highest population as well. I expect more people to generate more incidents.

And Winsor, that's disgusting. Why not point out all of the other incidents that were done by binary MEN (i.e. virtually all of them).

Wendy P.

[winsor 186]

32 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

Highest number makes sense; California has the highest population as well. I expect more people to generate more incidents.

And Winsor, that's disgusting. Why not point out all of the other incidents that were done by binary MEN (i.e. virtually all of them).

Wendy P.

If you remove a few key demographics to which the "binary men" you mention are included, the statistics change drastically.

I agree that the representation of those subject to gender confusion is massively disproportionate, and thus disgusting, but I included them as an example of truly messed up people given to violence (z.B. - zum Beispiel).

[billvon 2,400]

57 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

And Winsor, that's disgusting. Why not point out all of the other incidents that were done by binary MEN (i.e. virtually all of them).

I fear Winsor has gone so far right that he has become innumerate. 

[kallend 1,623]

4 hours ago, billeisele said:

As reported by MSN yesterday - CA has some of the most stringent gun laws with waiting periods, registration, magazine limits, red flag laws, storage laws, a long-standing scary black gun ban, and universal background checks yet they had the highest number of active shooter incidents in 2021. 

 

Per capita?  CA has a higher population than any other state.

Why do you repeatedly ignore the experience of every other G20 nation?  Fewer guns, fewer murders.  Yet they watch the same TV, drive the same cars, drink the same booze, snort the same illegal drugs, etc. as we do.

[kallend 1,623]

4 hours ago, billeisele said:

  Maybe ...  illegal immigrants ....  are part of the problem? 

Except that the data show quite clearly that natural born citizens are more likely to be criminals than immigrants, both legal and illegal.  Facts can be so annoying.

 

https://siepr.stanford.edu/news/mythical-tie-between-immigration-and-crime

https://www.npr.org/2024/03/08/1237103158/immigrants-are-less-likely-to-commit-crimes-than-us-born-americans-studies-find

https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2014704117

"Contrary to public perception, we observe considerably lower felony arrest rates among undocumented immigrants compared to legal immigrants and native-born US citizens and find no evidence that undocumented criminality has increased in recent years. Our findings help us understand why the most aggressive immigrant removal programs have not delivered on their crime reduction promises and are unlikely to do so in the future."

[gowlerk 1,912]

4 minutes ago, kallend said:

"Contrary to public perception, we observe considerably lower felony arrest rates among undocumented immigrants compared to legal immigrants and native-born US citizens and find no evidence that undocumented criminality has increased in recent years. Our findings help us understand why the most aggressive immigrant removal programs have not delivered on their crime reduction promises and are unlikely to do so in the future."

Illegal immigrants go through a lot of trouble to leave their home and go to whatever western country they are aiming for. They tend to be highly motivated, like all immigrants tend to be. They also have good reason to keep their heads down and not attract the attention of authorities.

[wmw999 2,122]

There are plenty of issues with uncontrolled immigration; it's just that an increase of per capita crime isn't among them. It's an easy thing to point to, but it's kind of like pointing at the one car wreck where seat belts were a detriment, and saying that proves that seat belts are bad.

Wendy P.

[JoeWeber 2,299]

5 hours ago, winsor said:

Maybe it's the culture, not the implement.  I'm sure the Tutsis weren't  reassured that Hutus weren't given to using firearms.

In this country, removing from consideration a very small number of subsets of the population, to include users of SSRIs, changes the statistics drastically.

z.B.:

Man, that’s just appalling. Unless, I suppose, that you think people do not as a matter of their true nature adopt a different approach to their gender than is listed on their birth certificate. Unless, that is, that you do not believe our perceptions of ourselves and the world around us happens at the level or our brains. And unless you are convinced that any deviation from an accepted norm is a matter of choice. If that’s what you think, oh well. What I see are people trying to live the only life they will ever have as comfortable with themselves as they possibly can. 

[Stumpy 256]

10 hours ago, winsor said:

but I included them as an example of truly messed up people given to violence

We know why you included them.

[kallend 1,623]

13 hours ago, winsor said:

 . . . an example of truly messed up people given to violence .

[winsor 186]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

Case in point.  Despite malevolent stupidity having achieved critical mass here, the only shot(s) fired came from LE.

The lesson relearned here is that playing chicken with lethal consequences does not tend to end well.

It strikes me as odd that acts of suicidal stupidity are all too often interpreted as martyrdom (Horst Wesel, John Birch, et al.) and misremembered with reverence.

[billeisele 122]

Correctly, some pointed out that on a per capita basis CA is on the lower end of the scale for gun deaths. The gun deaths per 100,000 2021 numbers from one source show CA - 9, FL - 14, OR - 15, IL - 16, SC - 22, and Mississippi - 34. The raw numbers are: CA - 3,580, FL - 3,140, OR - 670, IL - 2,000, FL - 3,140, SC - 1,140, Miss - 980. No doubt the high raw numbers are bad but it's also clear that many other states have a much higher risk.  Gun Deaths by State 2024 (worldpopulationreview.com)

It's possibly accurate to say (speculation) that if one isn't involved in criminal activity and doesn't frequent areas with that type activity, the risk of harm is fairly low. After that the primary risks would be being a crime victim or a victim at a mass shooting.

It remains true that the majority of firearm homicides are with handguns (62%), rifles (3.5%) and unknown (32%). The amount of unknown data is concerning. Looking at data on all homicides it's found that 26% are with fists, knives and other weapons (poison, explosives, fire, hammers, etc.).

It would be interesting to compare the amount of restrictive laws in each state and the homicide rates. That might provide some insight into the effectiveness of the restrictions and which ones actually work. The data is available, with the known limitation that it's not consistently reported. Seems that someone working on a social PhD degree would explore this.

[billvon 2,400]

40 minutes ago, billeisele said:

It's possibly accurate to say (speculation) that if one isn't involved in criminal activity and doesn't frequent areas with that type activity, the risk of harm is fairly low.

Yep.  But as a 10 year old living in such an area, you may not have much choice.

Two ways to combat that would be:

1) Move more illegal immigrants into the area.  Illegal immigrants are 2x less likely to commit violent crimes than US citizens.

2) Get people nearby voting blue.  States that voted for Donald Trump have exceeded the murder rate of states that voted for Joe Biden in every year since 2000.  It's likely that the lower educational level, higher poverty and higher gun ownership endemic to red states causes the higher rates of crime.

https://www.ojp.gov/library/publications/comparing-crime-rates-between-undocumented-immigrants-legal-immigrants-and

https://gigafact.org/fact-briefs/do-red-states-rank-higher-in-violent-crime-rates-than-blue-states

[johnhking1 70]

1 hour ago, billeisele said:

Looking at data on all homicides it's found that 26% are with fists, knives and other weapons (poison, explosives, fire, hammers, etc.).

I better stock up on hammers and steak knives before a back ground check is required.

[billeisele 122]

To the immigrant item. Yep, the overwhelming number are good people. The problem for me is the illegal ones that should have never been allowed in that do commit crimes. When Venezuela and other countries are emptying their jails and shipping them straight to the border, that's a problem. We're seeing plenty of it in the streets of NYC and other notable instances like Laken Riley. None of it should be occurring. 

Resources are being drained and shifted away from Americans. IMO Our Vets and homeless should come first. Not good. 

Liberal border policies, judges releasing criminals, sanctuary cities, none of it makes sense to me, the negative impacts are obvious. For many it's easy to ignore ... until it happens in their area or to someone they know. 

 

As for the comment about ignorant red states, I'll disagree. Yes, many folks are in lower income levels. Some of those people are the most honest people you'll find. Yes, there are plenty of gun deaths, gang violence, drugs and killings. I'll take conservative SC any day over liberal CA. If guns laws work then why were there over 3,000 gun deaths? Maybe criminals don't obey laws. 

Our electricity and fuels are half the cost. As are many other everyday expenses like housing, insurance, food and more. What's happening in San Fran is absurd. What we're seeing in SC is large numbers of folks moving here from blue states in the north and CA. They come here with cash money moving out of a 1,800 sq ft home taxed at thousands and buy a 4,000 sq ft home for less, and the taxes are one-fourth of what they were paying. 

When BLM tried to march, vandalize, burn and terrorize in Columbia and Charleston they got a taste of southern hospitality. In both areas they were gladly allowed to peacefully protest. When it shifted to bad behavior they were stopped. In Columbia (the police chief is a democrat) the violence was shut down, they were herded away from the retail areas with many arrests. In Charleston, the Democratic mayor told the cops to back off, the citizenry showed up in force. The good old boys pushed the trouble-makers out of the city. They stayed to guard the stores and helped board up those that were damaged. They sat in their big trucks with scary black rifles for days while the SWAT guys responded to any issues. The cops were glad to have them there. It never made the mainstream media, guess it didn't fit their narrative. The  incumbent Mayor was defeated in the next election.

We have plenty of immigrants in our area and don't have problems.  I have no clue of the percentage. On TV this morning a high school in Sumter with a Hispanic principal announced their first black female being admitted to West Point. The custom-built McMansion next to me was built by various Hispanic workers. The only whites on the job were the electricians and the cabinet makers. 

Yes, I'll take that any day.

[billeisele 122]

2 minutes ago, johnhking1 said:

I better stock up on hammers and steak knives before a back ground check is required.

You'll be OK unless they're black.

The ignorant peeps can't seem to understand that trying to control scary black guns will have almost no impact on gun deaths since rifles are used in less than 4% of gun deaths. In Europe, where Kallend is thrilled that firearms are controlled, the murders with knives and hammers is huge. It happens all the time. Crazy and stressed out people will find a way to kill. Yep, I get it, a nut with a knife can't kill as many as quickly as a nut with a gun. 

Knives or sharp objects - Rockford IL - 4 dead, 7 injured, NYC 4 dead 2 LEOs injured, and so on.

London 67 knife attacks. UK, 12 months ending September 2023, 48,716 knife attacks. Knife Crime Statistics | The Ben Kinsella Trust

[billvon 2,400]

38 minutes ago, billeisele said:

To the immigrant item. Yep, the overwhelming number are good people. The problem for me is the illegal ones that should have never been allowed in that do commit crimes.

Agreed.  However, I don't see a murder by an illegal immigrant to be any better or worse than a murder by a US citizen.

Hopefully this means you will support the next border control bill.

Quote

Resources are being drained and shifted away from Americans. IMO Our Vets and homeless should come first.

They do.  I volunteer at a homeless shelter here that targets the over-55 and homeless veteran population in San Diego.  There are hundreds of others who volunteer there as well.  And as a nation we spend $250 billion a year on veterans in the form of pensions, VA benefits including medical care, education, rehab, loan guarantees, construction of new facilities and housing support.

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Liberal border policies

You mean conservative border policies.  Republicans just killed a bill that would have gotten billions for more border patrol, more overtime for them, better unmanned assets (drones) better scanning technoloy at ports of entry and more judges/jails/lawyers to process them.  They opposed it to hurt Biden, but the result is that they are hurting Americans.

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As for the comment about ignorant red states, I'll disagree. 

I didn't say anything about ignorant red states, just that they are (on average) less educated.

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When BLM tried to march, vandalize, burn and terrorize in Columbia and Charleston they got a taste of southern hospitality.

Yep.  Heather Heyer REALLY got a taste of Southern hospitality (at the hands of a Trump supporter.)

And when Trump supporters marched to vandalize, deface, loot, kidnap and kill in DC, they learned how the US Justice system works.

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Our electricity and fuels are half the cost. 

My electric bill is $6 a month and I pay less than $100 a year for fuels (mainly natural gas for our stove and hot water heater.)

But yes, on average they are lower.  So are electrical reliability rates.  Red states also tend to have much higher pollution levels than blue states.  You get what you pay for.

Quote

We have plenty of immigrants in our area and don't have problems.  I have no clue of the percentage. On TV this morning a high school in Sumter with a Hispanic principal announced their first black female being admitted to West Point. The custom-built McMansion next to me was built by various Hispanic workers. The only whites on the job were the electricians and the cabinet makers. 

Same here.  The people who have worked in the startup I am at now are Asian, white, black, Hispanic, Arab, cis, trans, straight, gay, male and female.  The people who live at the homeless shelter I volunteer at are a similar mix, and are unfailingly polite (if sometimes a little odd.)  My neighbors are Italian, Chinese, Filipino, Mexican, Pakistani and Iraqi immigrants, along with a bunch of San Diego natives.  The other kids at my kids' school are also fairly diverse, and include nonbinary kids.  I like it that way.  And I am glad the trans and nonbinary people I know are not living in a place where conservatives mock and attack them, and try to pass laws against them.

 

[kallend 1,623]

When it comes to taking away resources from some and giving them to others, the map of giver vs taker states says it all.  The takers correlate pretty well with political leaning.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

1 hour ago, billeisele said:

If guns laws work then why were there over 3,000 gun deaths? Maybe criminals don't obey laws.

Why ban immigration if illegal immigrants don't obey the laws?

Gun crime is not a gun problem, but one crime by an illegal immigrant makes immigration a problem.

1 hour ago, billeisele said:

Our electricity and fuels are half the cost. As are many other everyday expenses like housing, insurance, food and more. What's happening in San Fran is absurd. What we're seeing in SC is large numbers of folks moving here from blue states in the north and CA. They come here with cash money moving out of a 1,800 sq ft home taxed at thousands and buy a 4,000 sq ft home for less, and the taxes are one-fourth of what they were paying.

All lagging costs. Taxes will go up to service the larger population. Electricity and other utility costs will go up once infrastructure needs to be upgraded to service the new larger population.

[gowlerk 1,912]

2 hours ago, billeisele said:

We have plenty of immigrants in our area and don't have problems.  I have no clue of the percentage. On TV this morning a high school in Sumter with a Hispanic principal announced their first black female being admitted to West Point. The custom-built McMansion next to me was built by various Hispanic workers. The only whites on the job were the electricians and the cabinet makers. 

This is a prime example of an R politician whipping up the white base about immigration.

https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/28/politics/fact-check-matt-maddock-invaders-gonzaga-madness-detroit/index.html

[kallend 1,623]

16 hours ago, billeisele said:

 

If guns laws work then why were there over 3,000 gun deaths? Maybe criminals don't obey laws. 

.

Great argument.    Why have laws against rape when rapists ignore them?  Why have laws against fraud when con-men don't obey them?  Why have laws concerning taking classified documents when ex-presidents don't obey them?

 

We could eliminate all laws using that argument.

[BIGUN 1,053]

1 hour ago, kallend said:

We could eliminate all laws using that argument.

Aaaaah, so you're a Libertarian.

[kallend 1,623]

20 hours ago, BIGUN said:

Aaaaah, so you're a Libertarian.

Anarchist might be more accurate.