lippy 773 #26 December 13, 2020 11 minutes ago, Phil1111 said: So Miller is your standard. Enough said. My standard??? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,914 #27 December 13, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, lippy said: My standard??? I'm not sure what he means by that either. I think he needs to clarify. It's not 'nuff said at all! Edited December 13, 2020 by gowlerk Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 911 #28 December 13, 2020 57 minutes ago, lippy said: My standard??? 53 minutes ago, gowlerk said: I'm not sure what he means by that either. I think he needs to clarify. It's not 'nuff said at all! Thats poorly stated. I would not use Stephen Miller to define any center of political views. Not that Lippy had that view. Other than Miller has certainly managed to draw out the worst of the trump right. Then redefine it as GOP/Mitch McConnell/trump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,123 #29 December 13, 2020 OK, now that I'm back, thanks, Lippy, for reading what I intended. Yeah, I do differentiate as a class between the people who are just lazy and comfortable and want to stay that way, and the ones who are fomenting action and raising the white flag etc. Stephen Miller and the Proud Boys fall into the second category, the elderly uncle who just can't understand why women and "colored" want to change things when they were going so well fall into the first. If liberals don't want to be painted with the same broad strokes as anarchists, then maybe we should try to differentiate among groups of our fellow countrymen. Be the change you want to see and all that happy horseshit. I think it's all kind of differentiated by whether one sees life as a long series of opportunities to make points at others' expense, or a way to try to find one's own path, sometimes treading on someone else. I actively reject the zero-sum "cry uncle" approach to getting people to see my point of view. People convinced by force don't stay convinced. You can change behavior (and that's what laws are for), but people generally have to have some participation in changing ideas. Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #30 December 13, 2020 4 hours ago, gowlerk said: That's pretty mushy. What are you saying? That they are racist and bigoted but it's not too bad because they are soft racists and bigots? No. It's that they are not racist and bigoted. They do not want to suppress black people or take away their rights - they just want things the way they used to be. Those aren't the same things. Imagine someone who grew up on watching the Little Rascals and remembers those shows fondly. They may watch them today because it reminds them of their childhood - not because they support the sort of racism featured in that show. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,914 #31 December 13, 2020 38 minutes ago, billvon said: No. It's that they are not racist and bigoted. They do not want to suppress black people or take away their rights - they just want things the way they used to be. Those aren't the same things. Imagine someone who grew up on watching the Little Rascals and remembers those shows fondly. They may watch them today because it reminds them of their childhood - not because they support the sort of racism featured in that show. But those people who just have those motivations are the ones who voted for Biden. No one voted for Trump because they are merely nostalgic. People aren’t fools and they understand the choices they have made. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RonD1120 58 #32 December 13, 2020 14 hours ago, SkyDekker said: I don’t think these people really care about the constitution. I think they worry more about having a white America than anything else. IMO, the next six weeks are going to reveal and utilize the path provided by the U.S. Constitution that most people are not aware of nor understand. Enjoy the show. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,123 #33 December 13, 2020 16 minutes ago, RonD1120 said: IMO, the next six weeks are going to reveal and utilize the path provided by the U.S. Constitution that most people are not aware of nor understand. Enjoy the show. Manipulating the understanding of the Constitution for the personal gain of a single person (that being D. J. Trump, the Chosen One) is shameful, Ron. Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dr.SkyFall 28 #34 December 13, 2020 23 hours ago, RonD1120 said: Despite the ignorance of the Luciferians here, I understand perfectly what you stated. How would someone else's ignorance about something impact how you personally would understand it? What a weird thing to say Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,400 #35 December 13, 2020 43 minutes ago, RonD1120 said: IMO, the next six weeks are going to reveal and utilize the path provided by the U.S. Constitution that most people are not aware of nor understand. The next six weeks are going to showcase the victory of the Rule of Law over a sitting president who is trying to steal an election. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,914 #36 December 13, 2020 43 minutes ago, RonD1120 said: IMO, the next six weeks are going to reveal and utilize the path provided by the U.S. Constitution that most people are not aware of nor understand. Enjoy the show. We are well aware that you and a group of your type still harbour a fantasy about a coup and nullification of the election in congress. Would you like to bet on that event happening? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #37 December 13, 2020 1 hour ago, RonD1120 said: IMO, the next six weeks are going to reveal and utilize the path provided by the U.S. Constitution that most people are not aware of nor understand. There is no path provided by the Constitution that allows States to overturn the choice their own citizens made at the ballot box when State law says that choice has to be respected. I know you want to overturn US democracy in favour of having a small class of the political elite make those choices for you, but it's not going to happen. Quote Enjoy the show. There's nothing to enjoy in the attempted overthrow of a previously stable democracy. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SkyDekker 1,123 #38 December 13, 2020 3 hours ago, wmw999 said: OK, now that I'm back, thanks, Lippy, for reading what I intended. Yeah, I do differentiate as a class between the people who are just lazy and comfortable and want to stay that way, and the ones who are fomenting action and raising the white flag etc. Stephen Miller and the Proud Boys fall into the second category, the elderly uncle who just can't understand why women and "colored" want to change things when they were going so well fall into the first. I don't. One facilitates the other. By doing nothing and hungering for the way things used to be, provides the breeding grounds for white extremism. It is the same argument as "I am just following orders". It is the, I just want what I want and fuck the rest of the world or the consequences. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,302 #39 December 13, 2020 3 hours ago, RonD1120 said: IMO, the next six weeks are going to reveal and utilize the path provided by the U.S. Constitution that most people are not aware of nor understand. Enjoy the show. More Ron Gobbledigook. I'd say let's bet on it (and I will) but bet on what? Again you say nothing but with authority per normal. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,123 #40 December 13, 2020 43 minutes ago, SkyDekker said: I don't. One facilitates the other. By doing nothing and hungering for the way things used to be, provides the breeding grounds for white extremism. It is the same argument as "I am just following orders". It is the, I just want what I want and fuck the rest of the world or the consequences. How far does that go? If someone doesn’t cut off their Republican parents, can you still associate with them? Do you cut off friends who don’t share your views? Or do you let them know in no uncertain terms how lacking you find their failure to reject what you consider to be racism? Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,302 #41 December 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, wmw999 said: How far does that go? If someone doesn’t cut off their Republican parents, can you still associate with them? Do you cut off friends who don’t share your views? Or do you let them know in no uncertain terms how lacking you find their failure to reject what you consider to be racism? Wendy P. How do you define "no uncertain terms"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,341 #42 December 13, 2020 3 hours ago, RonD1120 said: IMO, the next six weeks are going to reveal and utilize the path provided by the U.S. Constitution that most people are not aware of nor understand. Enjoy the show. Bullshit. What "path" are you referring to? There are a few ways that the Constitution allows Congress to select the presdient, in the case of unclear election results. That's not the case here.EVERY claim of fraud or misconduct or anything like that has been clearly disproven. EVERY SINGLE ONE. The level of stupidity of those making the claims and filing the lawsuits is unbelievable. And I really mean that. If I hadn't seen video of the testimony in Michigan, I wouldn't have believed that Giuliani could be that stupid. I would have been wrong. So what is happening here is that Trump and his minions are trying to overturn the results of a free & fair election. The Texas lawsuit didn't even bring up false claims of fraud or misconduct. Only that they didn't like the rules that the states had in place for voting and they wanted the votes tossed. Funny how the states that Trump won have pretty much the same rules in place, and they didn't seem to want to overturn that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lippy 773 #43 December 13, 2020 My wife has been best friends with the same person since they were in middle school. They were roommates in college and they still get together at least once a week, after several decades of being close. My wife and I are fairly progressive, her best friend is a Fox-watching conservative who voted for Trump in 2016 because she was 'sick of poor people getting everything'. At least once a month they have a blow-up fight due to the friend parroting some Fox talking point and my wife telling her that she's wrong and awful for believing that shit. I agree with my wife when she points out how horrible it is to compare government shutdowns to Nazi occupation; it's complete bullshit drummed up by Fox to rile up the masses. But screaming at people that they're stupid, racist, horrible etc... just reinforces the 'Elite democrats want to control you' narrative that Fox et all are pushing. For way too many people, Fox is 'the real news'. I don't know a way to get people out of that bubble, but I know that aggressively calling them racist is more likely than not to cause them to dig in their heels. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #44 December 13, 2020 29 minutes ago, wmw999 said: How far does that go? If someone doesn’t cut off... How do you get from people who support republican racism for banal reasons to people needing to actively oppose it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,123 #45 December 13, 2020 I was responding to Skydekker's comment that lazy people who benefit from racism aren't really different from people who actively support racism. Maybe I'm just lazy, and want to keep some of my friends, just as Lippy's wife wants to keep her conservative friend without having to look at everything through a "you are a racist" lens. Nearly all white people have benefited from racism; that includes me. Nearly all males have benefitted from sexism; that doesn't include me. Plenty of other isms out there. Wendy P. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #46 December 13, 2020 21 minutes ago, wmw999 said: I was responding to Skydekker's comment that lazy people who benefit from racism aren't really different from people who actively support racism. Lazy people was actually your comment, not Skydekker's. Skydekker is clearly talking about people who still support the Republicans. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jakee 1,257 #47 December 13, 2020 50 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said: The Texas lawsuit didn't even bring up false claims of fraud or misconduct. Only that they didn't like the rules that the states had in place for voting and they wanted the votes tossed. Funny that the Republican's argue against the popular vote by claiming the country would end up doing whatever California wants. Yet now they're demanding the entire nationwide electoral college vote should be decided by whatever Texas wants. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 911 #48 December 13, 2020 While trump took time off from his busy golf schedule on the weekend to take a helicopter flight over his demonstrating supporters in Washington.Some of those fine people visited several Black churches to vandalize and set fires. "Police on Sunday said they were investigating the incidents at the Asbury United Methodist Church and Metropolitan A.M.E. Church as potential hate crimes, which one religious leader likened to a cross burning." Intimidating Blacks, churchgoers, etc. is all a part of the GOP election and post election playbook. Sen. Kelly Loeffler's (R-Ga.) took time to have pictures taken with her supporters: Chester Doles, a reported former leader of the Klu Klux Klan who was sentenced to prison for the 1993 beating of a black man, according to The Baltimore Sun. The AJC reported that Doles also has ties to the Hammerskins, also known as Hammerskin Nation, defined as the "best organized, most widely dispersed and most dangerous Skinhead group" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,048 #49 December 13, 2020 1 hour ago, wolfriverjoe said: Bullshit. What "path" are you referring to? There are a few ways that the Constitution allows Congress to select the presdient, in the case of unclear election results. That's not the case here.EVERY claim of fraud or misconduct or anything like that has been clearly disproven. EVERY SINGLE ONE. The level of stupidity of those making the claims and filing the lawsuits is unbelievable. And I really mean that. If I hadn't seen video of the testimony in Michigan, I wouldn't have believed that Giuliani could be that stupid. I would have been wrong. So what is happening here is that Trump and his minions are trying to overturn the results of a free & fair election. The Texas lawsuit didn't even bring up false claims of fraud or misconduct. Only that they didn't like the rules that the states had in place for voting and they wanted the votes tossed. Funny how the states that Trump won have pretty much the same rules in place, and they didn't seem to want to overturn that. Hi Joe, Re: 'What "path" are you referring to?' When I first read Ron's post, I immediately thought of assassination. Get rid of Biden, Harris, Pelosi, etc until you get down to an R and your in business. Jerry Baumchen PS) In the world that we live in today, I would not surprised to see some folks armed & in the crowd at the inauguration. And, I'm not talking Secret Service folks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JoeWeber 2,302 #50 December 14, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, wmw999 said: I was responding to Skydekker's comment that lazy people who benefit from racism aren't really different from people who actively support racism. Maybe I'm just lazy, and want to keep some of my friends, just as Lippy's wife wants to keep her conservative friend without having to look at everything through a "you are a racist" lens. Nearly all white people have benefited from racism; that includes me. Nearly all males have benefitted from sexism; that doesn't include me. Plenty of other isms out there. Wendy P. Negative. Lippy wants his wife to keep her friend not the other way around. I think the world today is harder than we want it to be. Edited December 14, 2020 by JoeWeber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites