jumping in winds...

[justaflygirl 0]

I have found that my landings are 200% better with some ground speed from wind, I stick it every time. little to no wind I tend to get ground fixation and biff it...

yesterday as I was about to get on for my 2nd jump, the wind sock was showing 12 to 15, I was comfy with it, (not gusting not turbulent) so I made the jump. When I go back down (after a perfect landing) it was brought to my attention, that people were talking about me, that I had no business, jumping in those winds cuz of my jump #'s.

I am very safety concious, and I was totally comfy with it. I will be the first to sit it out when its turbulent or gusting, but it was steady yesterday, they had just picked up a bit.

All jumpers are different, and all are at a different skill level at their various jump numbers. I know my capabilities very well, and I totally trust my gut when it tells me to sit it out.

so, now I would like some educated opinions on this...

PS this jump was a 4 way with very seasoned jumpers.

[flyangel2 2]

When the winds are strange, I ask myself these questions:

How will I land under my reserve?

Where will I land if I get a bad spot? (under my main and under my reserve)

Where will my main land if I have to cut it away.

Don't forget, being under your reserve isn't like being under your main.

Another rule of thumb I use, if there is a gust that goes through, I look at my watch. If there hasn't been another gust in 20 mins, then I know I'm okay to go up. If a gust comes through within those 20 mins, I start the time over.

May your trails be crooked, winding, lonesome, dangerous, leading to the most amazing view. May your mountains rise into and above the clouds. - Edward Abbey

[JohnMitchell 14]

Were you coming straight down or getting penetration? How close to the target did you land? Were you able to control your canopy after you landed?

These are the kind of questions, I think, that determine if you are in control of the situation. Higher winds can increase some risks. Can you manage those risks effectively to make a safe skydive? Ask an instructor who knows you well.

[towerrat 0]

Sorry darlin, but I was there.
You had no business jumping in those winds, and the people taking you up had no business doing it. Those are my friends who took you up, we love them dearly. They, and you made a poor decision. You are right, no-one got hurt, but that doesn't make it ok. There were people all over the DZ with thoudsands of skydives sitting on the dirt because of the conditions.
After you guys landed, at least one of your group (with several hundred jumps) refused to jump again in the existing conditions. You were not safe, you were lucky.
Nobody is going to babysit you, and we know that isn't what you want. But when you start making poor decisions, people are going to talk. We actually thought that you were going to pull from the load at one point, but I guess it turned out that you just had the wrong gear on. Or at least that's the impression I got.

You are a big girl, you make your own choices, I suggest a little more forthought. Besides, you live in Florida, there's always next weekend.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, just giving you another perspective.

another quick couple of points....

the winds were extremely gusty and turbulent, it was still turbulent on sunset load when the wind died down

The group you jumped with, with the exception of one aren't exactly "very seasoned" as you called them. If I recall correctly they both have about 450 jumps. One of them will jump in almost anything. This is also the person who refused to jump again.
I think you are out of line here, I hope you don't get hurt.

I'm not exactly a safety nazi. I have made a some really dumb decisions with a lot more skydives than you have currently. I have been the wind dummy, I even once landed in a pouring rain storm. I don't always make the best decisions when it comes to questionable conditions. Yesterday there was no question. It was way too shitty for those of us with several hundred jumps, and a lot of those with several thousand jumps. You have 65 jumps.

But hey......... maybe it's just me

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes!

[The111 0]

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Don't forget, being under your reserve isn't like being under your main.

My 2nd cutaway, I was in marginal winds for my Spectre @ 1.1. I had been coming straight down all day. When I had to fly my reserve, I was backing up when facing into the wind (at 2k at least) and ended up aborting the main LZ and landing in a farm field behind it, so I wouldn't have to worry about landing backwards into the barbed wire fence dividing the two. I would have been pretty screwed if there wasn't an option behind me.

Was my observation correct, does the reserve (PDR) get less penetration than a similarly loaded Spectre? Like I said, I was still pretty high, so the winds could have been higher up there, and they also could have changed since the previous jump, but it really did seem like the canopy had nowhere near the penetration of the Spectre. I guess I did get penetration on final because I was moving forward below 500 feet, but at 2k I didn't have enough penetration to hold upwind of the LZ, which I had been able to do with my Spectre all day prior.

Oh yeh, and my main canopy floated about 4 miles (it was a HIGH chop from a wingsuit jump).

www.WingsuitPhotos.com

[justaflygirl 0]

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Were you coming straight down or getting penetration? How close to the target did you land? Were you able to control your canopy after you landed?

i was getting good penetration, landed close to my target, and was able to conrol it fine after i landed....

[daveb 1]

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All jumpers are different, and all are at a different skill level at their various jump numbers. I know my capabilities very well, and I totally trust my gut when it tells me to sit it out.

You realize this is exactly the same 'logic' used by the 400 jump wonders wanting to load their canopy at 3:1? While you are certainly aware of your own feelings of comfort in various situations, when your friends and advisors are telling you 'no', there is likely good reason. We all have a bit of a rebellious streak in us, and it probably serves most of us well most of the time, but there ARE times when it is wiser to listen to and heed advise we don't like.

-- Dave

[tdog 0]

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Sorry darlin, but I was there.
You had no business jumping in those winds, and the people taking you up had no business doing it.

What was your observation of the winds? More than 15 MPH? What were the low and high end speeds of the gusts???

[AndyMan 7]

Everyone gets better landings in wind. Wind slows our ground speed, which makes it easier to shut down the canopy.

On every landing, we get to some point in our flare where the parachute has given all it's got. The parachute simply is unable to geterate any more lift, and it stops flying. At this point, we have to put down our "landing gear".

When jumping in No Wind conditions, that point happens when we've still got "ground speed" - we're still moving forward. We need to put down our Landing Gear and start to run or slide. If we're not prepared for it, we cartwheel.

When we've got a good headwind, that point (where the parachute stalls) happens at (or before) the point where we physically stop moving forward. When the parachute slows us enough so that we stop moving forward, we simply put our feet down. It's easy!

It's perfectly normal, and 100% expected that landings into the wind are easier.

However,

If you're not perfectly comfortable landing in no wind, that's a great indicator that you're jumping a canopy that's too small.

Among other things, you should be able to land in no wind, downwind, and crosswind before you move to a smaller canopy. Given that you're not comfortable landing in No Wind now, it's a good indicator that you shouldn't have downsized earlier. It would be wise to think about jumping a larger canopy.

To answer your question though, the USPA BSR sets a maximum wind of 14MPH for students. I have absolutely no issue with a post 'a' license jumper going up when winds are gusting to 15. If students can jump at 14, you can certainly jump at 15.

However, often times it's the comments we hear from people that we know that tell us where we fit in on the ladder of skills. When we're doing well, people love to tell us how great we are, but when we're not doing so well - people are often afraid to say things straight to our face.

If people aren't telling you directly.... and are instead talking behind your back - well, that's unfortunate. Don't dismiss their message though, from your admissions of uncertainty with No Wind landings, it sounds like you could use a bit more effort in learning canopy control.

_Am

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You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[AndyMan 7]

Weather Underground shows 10mph gusting to 15mph throughout the day in Lakeland, 20 miles away.

Unless local conditions were very different, it doesn't sound unreasonable for someone with 66 jumps to be going up.

USPA BSR's set a maximum wind for students at 14MPH. Many DZ's have waivers that allow students to jump at 16MPH.

_Am

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You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

[RkyMtnHigh 0]

Her jump was yesterday..here are the winds:

Wind Speed 7 mph / 11 km/h (South)
Max Wind Speed 17 mph / 27 km/h
Max Gust Speed 23 mph / 37 km/h

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[slug 1]

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Were you coming straight down or getting penetration? How close to the target did you land? Were you able to control your canopy after you landed?

i was getting good penetration, landed close to my target, and was able to conrol it fine after i landed....

Read previous posts about chicks getting hurt because their male "friends" allowed, encouraged, them to get on loads they weren't ready for.

A recent one was posted in the incident reports . The nice lady doing the beach jumps with a radio for ground control "just in case".

I think the womens forum also covered this topic.

Knowing when to stand down comes from listening to others, observing, or lesson learned after you get hurt. The choice is yours. If you continue jumping you will learn one way or the other.

Been there done that

R.I.P.

[justaflygirl 0]

just to clear things up....
i sat watch the wind sock and the tree tops, nearly the entire time prior to getting on the load, it didnt seem bad at all, and nobody prior to my jump said anything to me about possibly not jumping. Not until after i landed was it brought to my attention. that maybe the winds were too high. 2 weekends prior, two people at the hills that i trust 100% both told me too sit it out, i did...no questions asked... yesterday, nothing.... so i didnt think anything of it....and in my observation, i didnt notice the gusts...

[Unparagoned 0]

One reason not to jump in high winds is that a downwind landing is going to be fast. My friend who has a similar number of jumps as you had a long spot made it back but didn't have the hight to turn into wind and had to land downwind. So if you tend to biff it on no wind, I guess downwind would be even worse.

[carbonezone 0]

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just to clear things up....
i sat watch the wind sock and the tree tops, nearly the entire time prior to getting on the load, it didnt seem bad at all, and nobody prior to my jump said anything to me about possibly not jumping.

You’re obviously being just a bit defiant about the said warning from people that seem to be worried about you and it also sounds like you are looking for approval and it doesn’t sound like you’re getting here. I jump at z-hills all through the winter and if the seasoned reasonable jumpers were sitting out then you might have followed that lead. Next time look at the “WIND METER not the tree tops” that is easily located on the observation deck. Be safe AND smart sweetie. Scotty and I have a saying “hey we can always jump another day or NOT….we choose ANOTHER DAY”!
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Tami

[justaflygirl 0]

the load was full, and it wasnt even discussed, all of the loads were full prior too and after this load. the weekend i chose to sit out, they were having a hard time getting loads together period...that definitly wasnt the case yesterday.

also, the weekend prior ( 4/15-16) the winds were of constant discussion, i heard very little conversation about yesterday....

[Zep 0]

I normally do not give my opinion on these sort or posts
but today is different as today I landed out in winds gusting at 27mph (400jump limit)
so if Rkymtnhigh is correct with his wind speeds
I have to agree that with your experience you should of sat it out
Imagine you caught a gust at 23mph off wind line just as you were setting up to flare.
People don't want to stop your fun, they just don't want to see you hurt
An if your not happy landing your canopy in nil wind conditions
it's time to upsize
With out sounding disrespectful you may know your limitations but the wind does not

Next weekend may you jump your socks off safely

Gone fishing

[RkyMtnHigh 0]

Hey Zep, those wind conditions were cut and pasted from Weather Underground where Andy had his clicky. I just updated with the proper day's info, Saturday, not Sunday as he posted.

"so if Rkymtnhigh is correct with his wind speeds.."
BTW...I'm a "she"

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[carbonezone 0]

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About 500 hours of community service would be a good wakeup call.

Dont sweat it....your still here and thankfully no harm was done. Just listen and learn. Its really simple. Check the wind meter.....I do when I am there and your lucky they have one take advantage of it. Also when you have any doubt about the winds just watch the loads landing. When you see other canopies "breathing and dancing" DONT jump!
This post is very funny to me cause it has been winding here in Georgia and Scotty and decided NOT to jump today. We sat and watched the 100 Jumps wonders get on loads "even after we advised them not to" (I know you were not told not too ). Lo-n-behold we watched "at least" 3 of them damn near get seriously injured due to the freaking winds "I am not kidding you". Heed others comments as "love"...even if it was after the fact and not to your face (unfortunatly )
<>
Tami

[justaflygirl 0]

thats just it, there was nothing to listen to or learn from yesterday, definitly more people were jumping than not. I was watching the canopies, had I seen any "dancing around" I would have sat it out, but all the landings looked fine and dandy to me.

To the previous responses:
And as far as me upsizing goes, I am am under a 150 now, and if I go any bigger, I get no penetration at all. I am between 130 and 135 out the door now. I have landed way way off under big canopies before b/c of this.

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I so wasnt looking to get "riffed" so to speak, I was just wondering why, nothing was suggested prior to my jumping, likeit was the weekend before last. Rkymtnhigh and peacefuljeffrey will be the first to tell you that I will sit it out without a 2nd's guess or complaint.

[marcandalysse 0]

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nobody prior to my jump said anything to me about possibly not jumping

I didn't realize that no one had spoken with you prior to the skydive.

A few of us spoke to two of your 4 way(the third was already waiting at the mockup) and mentioned our concern....and they took you up anyway.

Then I thought someone had pulled you off the load because I saw you walking back to the deck before the load went up. So I was surprised to see you landing (happily with no problems)...but also saw two of your 4 way landed out...

So here are some suggestions to help better observe and decide on jump weather and winds...

All during the day people were having problems landing....watch how people run out to help grab the tandems' canopies as they land, that's a sure sign...notice when the people who normally land closer to the beer line are landing farther out.....see people sliding in more on landing....or land safely but have their canopies billow up and twist around....

Notice when you see people are standing around the post checking out the wind measurements. Go over there and check out the wind speed of the gusts...

Notice when the AFF students are getting pulled off loads or waiting around to get the okay to get on a load...yesterday all three sat around awhile, the third finally got up towards the end of the day when things calmed down.

****Very important!!!...Notice when most of the bomb squad is sitting around the corner table instead of suiting up and heading to the plane...If more of them are sitting around than getting on loads, chances are that the weather is not the best ****

****Above all, ask the instructors!!****

We are glad to see you at the dz and joining the family....and hope to see you safely skydiving for a long time.....so please take our comments in a positive way.

Marc

[ianmdrennan 2]

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To the previous responses:
And as far as me upsizing goes, I am am under a 150 now, and if I go any bigger, I get no penetration at all. I am between 130 and 135 out the door now. I have landed way way off under big canopies before b/c of this.

Wow - I wonder how Katie (my wife) managed to do just fine under a 170 loaded like that for 200 jumps Our students and new grads seem to do fine under their mantas, assuming they fly wisely.

Performance Designs Factory Team

[HeatherB 0]

My view:

Canopies were bouncing around at various times of the day, especially early in the morning and mid-late afternoon. Lots of people were landing off and not getting much penetration. I made two jumps during the calmer part of the day and the winds were still fairly strong. Not scary, but not ideal. (I like a little wind so people will land in the same damn direction, but 15-20 is stronger than I like).

There won't always be someone around who will pull you aside and suggest that you not jump, especially since you are off student status and licensed. There are people at Z-hills who will jump in any kind of winds. Some of them are experienced and some of them are just dumb. (or a combination!)

I wasn't jumping at that time of day due to the unpredictable winds. A bunch of us were sitting around, watching the "wind dummies" and talking about what to do for dinner, when someone mentioned there was a girl with 65 jumps going up. We all kind of cringed. The winds picked up while you (at the time I didn't know it was you) were at the boarding area with your group, and I thought "Well, she'll pull herself off now I'm sure..." We saw you walk back to the packing area and I thought "good!" And then we saw you walk back and get on the plane. Not so good.

The winds picked up while your load was on the way to altitude. Fortunately, they died down while you guys were under canopy. You landed fine. You got lucky. I saw you later by the packing tent and thought "Yikes, I didn't realize it was her...she needs to be more careful." That's when I told you a bunch of us "wind wusses" were sitting around and someone mentioned you.

Be safe. There's always tomorrow. When there's a big group of locals staying on the ground, that is usually a good sign.

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And as far as me upsizing goes, I am am under a 150 now, and if I go any bigger, I get no penetration at all. I am between 130 and 135 out the door now. I have landed way way off under big canopies before b/c of this.

If you've landed way off under bigger canopies, it's due to poor spotting and/or poor canopy control skills. Don't blame the wingloading.

[hookitt 0]

Students are allowed to jump up to 14. You're not a student anymore. Nothing wrong with 15 if it's not gusting. Higher is not such a good Idea. When it gets closer to 20, it becomes pretty dicey especially for folks with lower jump numbers. We call it off completetly at about 24.

There are 2 places near here that have a reputation of being windy. One is Bay Area Skydiving in Byron. It's quite windy during some seasons so people grow very accustomed to jumping in winds.

Learn all about rotors. Trees and other obstacles cause rotors. Landing out is another thing to think about. If you land out, Chances are you have to put it down behind trees.

If you're going to land out... especially in winds, make your decision on where to land real high. If you're screwed your screwed. Stop trying to get back and pick a new place as high as possible.

Edit: One thing I'd like to add. I don't know what the real conditions were when you were jumping so I can't offer an opinion on that particular jump ... and your DZ location.

Standing down is often the best option, which you'll hear alot. When a person is a new jumper, it's easy to give in to temptation to jump even if the conditions aren't the best. I'll jump in some pretty aggressive winds so my limits can't be your limits.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[VanillaSkyGirl 6]

While I am certainly not the right person to be talking to anyone about their canopy skills, I read something in another post of yours that seemed important.

I read HERE that you had jumped your new canopy, yesterday. A very new jumper, who is jumping with a new canopy, while in highly questionable winds could be potentially dangerous. If that is not the case, then I truly apologize for my post, but I decided to write in because it seemed to be relevant to your landing situation. Hopefully, you will heed your DZ's most experienced and conservative jumpers' advice regarding when to ground yourself.

Btw, congratulations on your wonderful 4-way! Take care of yourself, my dear.

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