The CHAZ thread

[billvon 2,400]

2 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

What color are the looters?

What race are the looters?

What color or race are those that are violent during the protests?

In all three cases - some are white, some are black.  Why?

[turtlespeed 212]

3 minutes ago, billvon said:

In all three cases - some are white, some are black.  Why?

You forgot Hispanics, Asian, and  . . .  but whatever - The "why" is because they were of all races.

My point is that as a group, calling them savages for looting and violence (pretty much what I would consider savages) It appears incorrect to call Ron a racist based on his remarks of the looters being savages.

The people that perpetrated those illegal acts are reasonably referred to as savages, every single one of them.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

15 minutes ago, billvon said:

In all three cases - some are white, some are black.  Why?

Hi Bill,

And, he could ask those questions about Tulsa.

What color were the rioters?

What color were the looters?

What color were the murderers?

What color were the bombers?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Jerry Baumchen

[jaybird18c 4]

 

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

24 minutes ago, billvon said:

In all three cases - some are white, some are black.  Why?

It seems like most of the ones arrested for serious stuff (looting & arson) are white.

The guy who was arrested for torching the police precinct in Minneapolis.
They guy who was arrested for torching the courthouse in Nashville.
The three arrested for torching a nutrition store in St Paul.
The woman arrested in Madison for arson.
Now, the woman arrested in Seattle for burning up 5 cop cars:
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/washington-state-woman-arrested-accused-of-setting-5-police-vehicles-ablaze-in-george-floyd-riots?fbclid=IwAR10sHezb_RqsIG9rek04bh2ye2iRVCVX0T2nWUE_AzQrw1uDFj-uBwc7NQ

[Phil1111 911]

17 minutes ago, wolfriverjoe said:

It seems like most of the ones arrested for serious stuff (looting & arson) are white.

The guy who was arrested for torching the police precinct in Minneapolis.
They guy who was arrested for torching the courthouse in Nashville.
The three arrested for torching a nutrition store in St Paul.
The woman arrested in Madison for arson.
Now, the woman arrested in Seattle for burning up 5 cop cars:
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/washington-state-woman-arrested-accused-of-setting-5-police-vehicles-ablaze-in-george-floyd-riots?fbclid=IwAR10sHezb_RqsIG9rek04bh2ye2iRVCVX0T2nWUE_AzQrw1uDFj-uBwc7NQ

F*#kin savages, those whites. Contempt for law, for their communities, for hardworking business.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

Just now, Phil1111 said:

F*#kin savages, those whites. Contempt for law, for their communities, for hardworking business.

I don't know about those particular arrestees, but there were 'more than a few' of the "Boogaloo Boys" that got arrested.

White Supremacists who are trying to instigate a race war.
They've been posting shit about it for some time now on various internet platforms. 

Not unlike Manson, I think they want to scare the white folks into thinking the 'scary black man' is going to come and burn their neighborhoods down, tiggering white violence against blacks.
Also not unlike Manson, their 'plan' is a twisted and flawed fantasy that simply won't work. 

[turtlespeed 212]

40 minutes ago, Phil1111 said:

F*#kin savages, those whites. Contempt for law, for their communities, for hardworking business.

We agree again!

Except - I would have used "people" instead of "whites" and pulling out a race card that makes me sound racist.

[billvon 2,400]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

You forgot Hispanics, Asian, and  . . .  but whatever -

Can you explain why you think "Asian" is a color?

Quote

My point is that as a group, calling them savages for looting and violence (pretty much what I would consider savages) It appears incorrect to call Ron a racist based on his remarks of the looters being savages.

If he called the cops who murdered blacks/slashed tires/stole from the congressman's office savages I would agree.  He did not, and he's made his position on who the savages are pretty clear.

Quote

The people that perpetrated those illegal acts are reasonably referred to as savages, every single one of them.

Unless they are cops, and then there is a story along the lines of "well, you have to understand that . . . ."

[turtlespeed 212]

9 hours ago, billvon said:

Can you explain why you think "Asian" is a color?

If he called the cops who murdered blacks/slashed tires/stole from the congressman's office savages I would agree.  He did not, and he's made his position on who the savages are pretty clear.

Unless they are cops, and then there is a story along the lines of "well, you have to understand that . . . ."

When did I say Asian was a color?  It seems pretty clear that they are a race.  If that was unclear, I apologize.  I went back and reread the threads.  I don't see how that could be misinterpreted.

 

And, no.  No - you don't have to understand anything,  but that those that are destroying the businesses, and property, and stealing from those that have worked to make all that are savages.  It doesn't matter who they are, or what they do in their "off time" when they aren't looting, destroying, and committing violence.

[turtlespeed 212]

On an ironic note:

Here is an example of the policing that the CHAZ inhabitants experience.

 

[kallend 1,623]

6 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Does the US have a problem with how cops are allowed to operate, under what rules they can use deadly force? Judge for yourself. The numbers below represent sixteen countries, and each set of numbers was selected from a four-year consecutive period between 2004-2018. (Some countries do not have verifiable data for certain years, so I selected the most recent four-year period between 04-18 where info was available. Consecutive years. It was the most balanced method to use. Here are the results, from my recent post at Facebook:

It's simple numbers. Sixteen civilized countries and the number of people killed in each of them from police action in a recent four-year period. Because of the distribution of statistics provided, all numbers from four straight years fall somewhere between 2004-2018. These are the totals over a four year consecutive period between the dates above.
Here is the sad truth:

Australia: 22
Austria: 6
Denmark: 5
Finland: 8
France: 13
Germany: 33
Iceland: 1
Netherlands: 16
New Zealand: 40 (total since 1916)
Norway: zero
South Africa: 1,865
Sweden: zero (more than 80 warning shots fired in the four-year spread)
UK: (England and Wales only) 4
Northern Ireland: 3
Scotland: 46
United States of America: 4,627 <<<<<

Something is wrong here.

Approximate total population of the first fifteen countries: 357 million.
Population of the USA: 330 million.

Total police shootings that resulted in death, first fifteen countries: 2,062, the vast majority of which come out of South Africa.

Total police shootings that resulted in death, USA: 4,267

If you toss out South Africa, the other fourteen countries add up to only 197 over the four year period. Most of those fourteen countries are considered 'civilized' and part of the west. Adjusted for population, only South Africa, as part of that list has a worse record than the United States. South Africa has a population of 58 million people. 

Scotland 46?  SCOTLAND?  Are you sure?

[jakee 1,255]

21 minutes ago, kallend said:

Scotland 46?  SCOTLAND?  Are you sure?

Wikipedia lists only one person killed by the police in Scotland since 2000. You could stretch to including the victims of the helicopter crash in Glasgow a few years ago which adds 10 including the police crew but that still comes up short. The number for England and Wales is wrong too, but in the other direction. Says 4 in the list but should be around 15 or so.

[Phil1111 911]

48 minutes ago, jakee said:

Wikipedia lists only one person killed by the police in Scotland since 2000. You could stretch to including the victims of the helicopter crash in Glasgow a few years ago which adds 10 including the police crew but that still comes up short. The number for England and Wales is wrong too, but in the other direction. Says 4 in the list but should be around 15 or so.

I was prepared to blame it on the whiskey from there.

[kallend 1,623]

1 hour ago, Phil1111 said:

I was prepared to blame it on the whiskey from there.

I can relate.  We watch "Rebus" and "Shetland" a lot on TV.

[DJL 232]

18 hours ago, nigel99 said:

You know what is ironic is that these so called “Christians” are so racist. My sister got blocked on Facebook yesterday, I got tired of her ranting about Sadiik Khan (London Mayor)

And you wonder why there are race problems in the USA when scared old white men are running around calling people savages.

When I went to Jesus camp in middle school the camp owner/Reverend would ask about my area because that's where he grew up.  He always asked if the blacks had taken over and destroyed it all.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

9 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Does the US have a problem with how cops are allowed to operate, under what rules they can use deadly force? Judge for yourself. The numbers below represent sixteen countries, and each set of numbers was selected from a four-year consecutive period between 2004-2018. (Some countries do not have verifiable data for certain years, so I selected the most recent four-year period between 04-18 where info was available. Consecutive years. It was the most balanced method to use. Here are the results, from my recent post at Facebook:

It's simple numbers. Sixteen civilized countries and the number of people killed in each of them from police action in a recent four-year period. Because of the distribution of statistics provided, all numbers from four straight years fall somewhere between 2004-2018. These are the totals over a four year consecutive period between the dates above.
Here is the sad truth:

Australia: 22
Austria: 6
Denmark: 5
Finland: 8
France: 13
Germany: 33
Iceland: 1
Netherlands: 16
New Zealand: 40 (total since 1916)
Norway: zero
South Africa: 1,865
Sweden: zero (more than 80 warning shots fired in the four-year spread)
UK: (England and Wales only) 4
Northern Ireland: 3
Scotland: 46
United States of America: 4,627 <<<<<

Something is wrong here.

Approximate total population of the first fifteen countries: 357 million.
Population of the USA: 330 million.

Total police shootings that resulted in death, first fifteen countries: 2,062, the vast majority of which come out of South Africa.

Total police shootings that resulted in death, USA: 4,267

If you toss out South Africa, the other fourteen countries add up to only 197 over the four year period. Most of those fourteen countries are considered 'civilized' and part of the west. Adjusted for population, only South Africa, as part of that list has a worse record than the United States. South Africa has a population of 58 million people. 

I know that for at least one of those countries it is official policy to aim for extremities first. Something Americans always maintain is entirely impossible.

[DJL 232]

10 hours ago, RobertMBlevins said:

t's simple numbers. Sixteen civilized countries and the number of people killed in each of them from police action in a recent four-year period. Because of the distribution of statistics provided, all numbers from four straight years fall somewhere between 2004-2018. These are the totals over a four year consecutive period between the dates above.
Here is the sad truth:

I'm curious how many of these incidents involved a person with a firearm?  I think we can all say that it is very justified for a police officer to use deadly force if a subject has a gun.  Additionally, gun ownership is barely restricted in the US considering the hodgepodge of laws from state to state.  Could it be said that the two issues go hand in hand.  Cops know that people might be armed and when the situation escalates they justifiably fear for their own lives.  Yes, I'm asking if lax gun control is a factor in our overall tendency to kill our own citizens.  Is it unrealistic to think cops operate at a heightened stress level because of the quantity of guns on the street?  This makes no excuse for the racial issues we've discussed but I think it's factor.

[SkyDekker 1,122]

31 minutes ago, DJL said:

I'm curious how many of these incidents involved a person with a firearm?  I think we can all say that it is very justified for a police officer to use deadly force if a subject has a gun.  Additionally, gun ownership is barely restricted in the US considering the hodgepodge of laws from state to state.  Could it be said that the two issues go hand in hand.  Cops know that people might be armed and when the situation escalates they justifiably fear for their own lives.  Yes, I'm asking if lax gun control is a factor in our overall tendency to kill our own citizens.  Is it unrealistic to think cops operate at a heightened stress level because of the quantity of guns on the street?  This makes no excuse for the racial issues we've discussed but I think it's factor.

It would except I keep hearing that an armed society makes a polite society.

[jakee 1,255]

48 minutes ago, RobertMBlevins said:

Yeah...I think the entry for Scotland is incorrect. Was probably '4' for a certain year, '6' for another, and then a couple of zeros for the other two years. Not '46'. 

No it wasn't. In the time period they claim to cover it was a 0, then a bunch of 0s, then a single 1, then a bunch more 0s - not counting the helicopter, which still doesn't make the numbers match whichever way you cut it.

(Somewhat ironically, it seems that the only person directly killed by the police in Scotland this millennium was the highly suspicious asphyxiation of a black man while restrained in custody, and no police officers were charged with any crime. Scotland - you were doing so well...)

Quote

Still, you have these fourteen well-known western countries with a total of 197 cop-related shootings in a four year period between 04-18...

But do you though? The number for the rest of the UK is also wrong, I might even say seemingly picked at random. I'm going to assume the rest of them were too.

 

I don't doubt that the USA is far out on its own in total and per capita, but I don't think your source is going to even remotely tell you by how much.

Edited June 16, 2020 by jakee

[Phil1111 911]

4 hours ago, SkyDekker said:

I know that for at least one of those countries it is official policy to aim for extremities first. Something Americans always maintain is entirely impossible.

For Canadian and US LE the training is that you only fire when your life is in immediate danger. Otherwise you don't shoot. For aggressive suspects within about 10 yards a knife is judged to be as lethal as a gun. i.e. in about two seconds a armed individual can be on top of you. As such you shoot to kill at the center mass of the body.

Currently you don't shoot to wound because if the attacker has a gun or knife. The time lost in a miss or a non-lethal wound. Will have the attacker either on you with a knife or them shooting, or shooting again.

IMO the essence is that many countries deal with this and there are far too many civilians killed who are unarmed.In both the US and Canada. Furthermore a vest is a nice protective feature in a fight. You don't want to punch a bullet-resistant vest with your fist.

[Coreece 190]

On 6/16/2020 at 12:56 AM, Phil1111 said:

F*#kin savages, those whites.

Jeeze dude, say it with some conviction!

 

[turtlespeed 212]

Shouldn't they have free healthcare by now?

I would think that they would have made their own 911 system a priority.

 

"I am the Gaurdian!  Can you get a medic?"

 

That guy needs professional medical help!

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by turtlespeed

[turtlespeed 212]

What is it that is going on here?

Is this a recreation of the Iwo Jima flag raising?

[airdvr 197]

I see this much like the Occupy Wall Street fiasco.  People will soon tire of living this way and go home.