The CHAZ thread

[turtlespeed 212]

At least they have gotten the segregation thing down.

<facepalm>

[turtlespeed 212]

. . . and they have reasonable demands as well.

<Facepalm>

https://medium.com/@seattleblmanon3/the-demands-of-the-collective-black-voices-at-free-capitol-hill-to-the-government-of-seattle-ddaee51d3e47

1. The Seattle Police Department and attached court system are beyond reform. We do not request reform, we demand abolition. We demand that the Seattle Council and the Mayor defund and abolish the Seattle Police Department and the attached Criminal Justice Apparatus. This means 100% of funding, including existing pensions for Seattle Police. At an equal level of priority we also demand that the city disallow the operations of ICE in the city of Seattle.
2. In the transitionary period between now and the dismantlement of the Seattle Police Department, we demand that the use of armed force be banned entirely. No guns, no batons, no riot shields, no chemical weapons, especially against those exercising their First Amendment right as Americans to protest.
3. We demand an end to the school-to-prison pipeline and the abolition of youth jails. Get kids out of prison, get cops out of schools. We also demand that the new youth prison being built in Seattle currently be repurposed.
4. We demand that not the City government, nor the State government, but that the Federal government launch a full-scale investigation into past and current cases of police brutality in Seattle and Washington, as well as the re-opening of all closed cases reported to the Office of Police Accountability. In particular, we demand that cases particular to Seattle and Washington be reopened where no justice has been served, namely the cases of Iosia Faletogo, Damarius Butts, Isaiah Obet, Tommy Le, Shaun Fuhr, and Charleena Lyles.
5. We demand reparations for victims of police brutality, in a form to be determined.
6. We demand that the City of Seattle make the names of officers involved in police brutality a matter of public record. Anonymity should not even be a privilege in public service.
7. We demand a retrial of all People in Color currently serving a prison sentence for violent crime, by a jury of their peers in their community.
8. We demand decriminalization of the acts of protest, and amnesty for protestors generally, but specifically those involved in what has been termed “The George Floyd Rebellion” against the terrorist cell that previously occupied this area known as the Seattle Police Department. This includes the immediate release of all protestors currently being held in prison after the arrests made at 11th and Pine on Sunday night and early Saturday morning June 7th and 8th, and any other protesters arrested in the past two weeks of the uprising, the name Evan Hreha in particular comes to mind who filmed Seattle police macing a young girl and is now in jail.
9. We demand that the City of Seattle and the State Government release any prisoner currently serving time for a marijuana-related offense and expunge the related conviction.
10. We demand the City of Seattle and State Government release any prisoner currently serving time just for resisting arrest if there are no other related charges, and that those convictions should also be expunged.
11. We demand that prisoners currently serving time be given the full and unrestricted right to vote, and for Washington State to pass legislation specifically breaking from Federal law that prevents felons from being able to vote.
12. We demand an end to prosecutorial immunity for police officers in the time between now and the dissolution of the SPD and extant justice system.
13. We demand the abolition of imprisonment, generally speaking, but especially the abolition of both youth prisons and privately-owned, for-profit prisons.
14. We demand in replacement of the current criminal justice system the creation of restorative/transformative accountability programs as a replacement for imprisonment.
15. We demand autonomy be given to the people to create localized anti-crime systems.
16. We demand that the Seattle Police Department, between now and the time of its abolition in the near future, empty its “lost and found” and return property owned by denizens of the city.
17. We demand justice for those who have been sexually harassed or abused by the Seattle Police Department or prison guards in the state of Washington.
18. We demand that between now and the abolition of the SPD that each and every SPD officer turn on their body cameras, and that the body camera video of all Seattle police should be a matter of easily accessible public record.
19. We demand that the funding previously used for Seattle Police be redirected into: A) Socialized Health and Medicine for the City of Seattle. Free public housing, because housing is a right, not a privilege. C) Public education, to decrease the average class size in city schools and increase teacher salary. D) Naturalization services for immigrants to the United States living here undocumented. (We demand they be called “undocumented” because no person is illegal.) E) General community development. Parks, etc.

We also have economic demands that must be addressed.

1. We demand the de-gentrification of Seattle, starting with rent control.
2. We demand the restoration of city funding for arts and culture to re-establish the once-rich local cultural identity of Seattle.
3. We demand free college for the people of the state of Washington, due to the overwhelming effect that education has on economic success, and the correlated overwhelming impact of poverty on people of color, as a form of reparations for the treatment of Black people in this state and country.
4. We demand that between now and the abolition of the SPD that Seattle Police be prohibited from performing “homeless sweeps” that displace and disturb our homeless neighbors, and on equal footing we demand an end to all evictions.
5. We demand a decentralized election process to give the citizens of Seattle a greater ability to select candidates for public office such that we are not forced to choose at the poll between equally undesirable options. There are multiple systems and policies in place which make it impractical at best for working-class people to run for public office, all of which must go, starting with any fees associated with applying to run for public office.

Related to economic demands, we also have demands pertaining to what we would formally call “Health and Human Services.”

1. We demand the hospitals and care facilities of Seattle employ black doctors and nurses specifically to help care for black patients.
2. We demand the people of Seattle seek out and proudly support Black-owned businesses. Your money is our power and sustainability.
3. We demand that the city create an entirely separate system staffed by mental health experts to respond to 911 calls pertaining to mental health crises, and insist that all involved in such a program be put through thorough, rigorous training in conflict de-escalation.

Finally, let us now address our demands regarding the education system in the City of Seattle and State of Washington.

1. We demand that the history of Black and Native Americans be given a significantly greater focus in the Washington State education curriculum.
2. We demand that thorough anti-bias training become a legal requirement for all jobs in the education system, as well as in the medical profession and in mass media.
3. We demand the City of Seattle and State of Washington remove any and all monuments dedicated to historical figures of the Confederacy, whose treasonous attempts to build an America with slavery as a permanent fixture were an affront to the human race.

[airdvr 197]

It's a nice communal idea...but it's already been tried.  Sharon Tate ended up dead.

The demands?  I understand where they might be coming from with some of it but they're really in no position to demand much.  They'll need hostages for that.

[turtlespeed 212]

3 minutes ago, airdvr said:

It's a nice communal idea...but it's already been tried.  Sharon Tate ended up dead.

The demands?  I understand where they might be coming from with some of it but they're really in no position to demand much.  They'll need hostages for that.

They have that - Its the buildings and land that they are occupying.

This is interesting - 

It deals with what the President's responsibilities are regarding secession.

Granted, the article pertains to the civil war, but Letter vs Spirit . . . .  

https://www.nytimes.com/1861/04/21/archives/the-law-of-treason.html#:~:text=That secession is treason%2C and,11.&text=The loaning of money to,is an act of treason.

[jakee 1,254]

2 hours ago, airdvr said:

It's a nice communal idea...but it's already been tried.  Sharon Tate ended up dead.

Given that Manson wanted to incite a race war that seems like an odd comparison to make.

[airdvr 197]

2 minutes ago, jakee said:

Given that Manson wanted to incite a race war that seems like an odd comparison to make.

I wasn't aware of that.  But communal living has been done many times.  It usually fails.

[JoeWeber 2,298]

20 minutes ago, airdvr said:

I wasn't aware of that.  But communal living has been done many times.  It usually fails.

Seriously? Did you think Helter Skelter was a red haired comedian?

[jakee 1,254]

30 minutes ago, airdvr said:

I wasn't aware of that.  But communal living has been done many times.  It usually fails.

Usually? How would you know about the successes?

[jakee 1,254]

2 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

This is interesting - 

It deals with what the President's responsibilities are regarding secession.

Did you read the list of demands you just posted? Whoever wrote it is not seceding.

[airdvr 197]

10 minutes ago, jakee said:

Did you read the list of demands you just posted? Whoever wrote it is not seceding.

I beg to differ.  Setting up what appears to be a sovereign state is secession.  But let's not get bogged down with all of that.  If the government wants that area back they have the tools to get the job done. 

Watched a vid yesterday from inside CHAZ.  It was peaceful...reminded me of the "teach-ins" of the 60's.  I'm warming to the idea of reinventing the role of police.

Edited June 13, 2020 by airdvr
spelling

[jakee 1,254]

16 minutes ago, airdvr said:

I beg to differ.  Setting up what appears to be a sovereign state is secession. 

If they wanted to secede, why would they have a list of demands for action by the local, state and national government, and why are none of those demands 'let us have this land for ever'? They are actually asking for the federal government to intervene in their affairs for god's sake.

Quote

But let's not get bogged down with all of that. 

I wouldn't call treason vs not treason just a minor detail.

[headoverheels 291]

So, Fake News is at it again.

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/fox-news-runs-digitally-altered-images-in-coverage-of-seattles-protests-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/

[jakee 1,254]

10 minutes ago, headoverheels said:

So, Fake News is at it again.

That must be where Markharju works now.

[JoeWeber 2,298]

3 hours ago, jakee said:

That must be where Markharju works now.

So you can be funny. Thanks.

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

3 hours ago, jakee said:

That must be where Markharju works now.

Nah.

He just makes ridiculous claims.

He never posts any pictures to support them. Real ones or fake ones.

[yoink 321]

6 hours ago, headoverheels said:

So, Fake News is at it again.

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/politics/fox-news-runs-digitally-altered-images-in-coverage-of-seattles-protests-capitol-hill-autonomous-zone/

This is... I don’t know: I don’t even have the words.

And they KNOW the retraction means nothing. The damage has be done. Trumpeteers won’t read the apology or will think it’s forced.

Im starting to think there DOES need to be some accountability of the press at a federal level, but in an independent format.

[ryoder 1,382]

Fox News apparently does not recognize Monty Python humor:

https://bit.ly/3cTHbYQ

[RonD1120 58]

I remember back in 2007 when all this crap was unheard of. 

Then came "Hope and Change."

 

[wmw999 2,121]

They just weren't right in front of you. The Bonus Army (before the Depression), plenty of places in the Depression, some hippie-type takeovers.

One of the telling things about the traditionalist 1950's that you seem to have liked is that there was much higher taxation, allowing the government to invest in those infrastructure programs like roads and buildings, that keep people employed. 

Poor and dispossessed people have always had to gather where they could; the colonias in south Texas, the favelas in Brazil, tent cities during nearly any housing or economic stress (including in the late 1980's and very early 1990's), homeless encampments all over the place (note that until recent efforts to focus on veterans, they were disproportionately represented among the homeless). But as long as there's no publicity, it doesn't exist, I guess.

Ron, we use people up and discard them. That's not acceptable in a society that claims to value individuals, because they are all individuals. Many of the homeless would have been awesome cowboys 100-150 years ago, but there aren't enough cowboy jobs any more, our massively profit-driven economy has taken care of that, and made that type of person superfluous. We can drug the ADD and ADHD out of them, but that's a cover, not a cure.

Don't fucking blame it on Obama. It started before him, he wasn't any more able to fix it than any other president, and it's not going away. But at least we are listening to the voices of some of the previously discarded people now. Sucks for you they're not conservative religious white males.

Wendy P.

 

[turtlespeed 212]

17 hours ago, jakee said:

That must be where Markharju works now.

Why are we still bashing posters as opposed to commenting on topics?

[turtlespeed 212]

49 minutes ago, wmw999 said:

 

Don't fucking blame it on Obama. It started before him . . . .

 

Will it be acceptable in the near future to use this line when Trump is being blamed for the same things?

[wmw999 2,121]

38 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Will it be acceptable in the near future to use this line when Trump is being blamed for the same things?

Depends on what. Doubling down on disinformation? We have to go back to the 1930's for that probably. Maybe Trump started it up again. Homelessness? Nope, Trump didn't start that. He didn't cause COVID, but he did help to set the tone for our response -- he owns the response. He doesn't own racial injustice, prejudice, or discrimination, but he does own legitimizing it at the national level. Right now, majority people own the discussion, so it's all about them telling their inferiors how they are wrong and have to change, and it's not one-sided. It's not one-sided on the other side, either, but, ya know -- someone has to start, and the people who can afford to lose more should be willing to start. They're not backed into a corner.

Wendy P.

[jakee 1,254]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

Will it be acceptable in the near future to use this line when Trump is being blamed for the same things?

What is it that's going to happen in 10 years time that Trump will be blamed for?

[wolfriverjoe 1,340]

2 hours ago, jakee said:

What is it that's going to happen in 10 years time that Trump will be blamed for?

How horrible the pandemic was in the US compared to the rest of the world.

Massive deficits. Probable economic depression.
Russia taking over most of Eastern Europe.
China taking over much of Asia.

Iran having nukes.
Federal judges taking away the rights of the dispossessed, giving huge advantages to government and big business (not all on Trump, McConnell is behind a lot of that).

Even if he was removed tomorrow, much of this is a strong possibility. 

But hey, MAGA.

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

6 hours ago, wmw999 said:

They just weren't right in front of you. The Bonus Army (before the Depression), plenty of places in the Depression, some hippie-type takeovers.

One of the telling things about the traditionalist 1950's that you seem to have liked is that there was much higher taxation, allowing the government to invest in those infrastructure programs like roads and buildings, that keep people employed. 

Poor and dispossessed people have always had to gather where they could; the colonias in south Texas, the favelas in Brazil, tent cities during nearly any housing or economic stress (including in the late 1980's and very early 1990's), homeless encampments all over the place (note that until recent efforts to focus on veterans, they were disproportionately represented among the homeless). But as long as there's no publicity, it doesn't exist, I guess.

Ron, we use people up and discard them. That's not acceptable in a society that claims to value individuals, because they are all individuals. Many of the homeless would have been awesome cowboys 100-150 years ago, but there aren't enough cowboy jobs any more, our massively profit-driven economy has taken care of that, and made that type of person superfluous. We can drug the ADD and ADHD out of them, but that's a cover, not a cure.

Don't fucking blame it on Obama. It started before him, he wasn't any more able to fix it than any other president, and it's not going away. But at least we are listening to the voices of some of the previously discarded people now. Sucks for you they're not conservative religious white males.

Wendy P.

 

Hi Wendy,

It reads better this way:  ' . . . because we are all individuals.'

Jerry Baumchen