Pope Francis Called Out, Against The Faith

[RonD1120 58]

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/prominent-clergy-scholars-accuse-pope-francis-of-heresy-in-open-letter

Progressive liberal socialism/communism is being exposed in many areas, now including the Roman Catholic Church.

 

[gowlerk 1,912]

Clearly The Church has become far too liberal. What it needs is a good old fashioned Inquisition to expose the heretic at the top.

[turtlespeed 212]

21 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Clearly The Church has become far too liberal. What it needs is a good old fashioned Inquisition to expose the heretic at the top.

Considering that religion is the cause of most murder in the world - the practices should be punishable by death.

[gowlerk 1,912]

23 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Considering that religion is the cause of most murder in the world - the practices should be punishable by death.

Hmmmm, lust envy and greed are responsible for most murders. Even without religion another form of tribalism would drive us to kill each other. Religion is just an excuse.

[billvon 2,400]

Just now, gowlerk said:

Hmmmm, lust envy and greed are responsible for most murders. Even without religion another form of tribalism would drive us to kill each other. Religion is just an excuse.

At Earth Day one year a very fat right winger walked around with a big sandwich board proclaiming that our socialist liberal commie society was going straight to hell.  He even listed, right there on the sign, the seven deadly sins that we (presumably all the people at Earth Day) were engaged in: pride, envy, lust, anger, greed and sloth.

A perfect example of a sanctimonious Christian.

[turtlespeed 212]

35 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

Hmmmm, lust envy and greed are responsible for most murders. Even without religion another form of tribalism would drive us to kill each other. Religion is just an excuse.

Do you disagree just for the sake of diagreement?

In the name of religion - most murders are attributed to religion in one way or another.

[gowlerk 1,912]

2 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

Do you disagree just for the sake of diagreement?

In the name of religion - most murders are attributed to religion in one way or another.

No, I disagree because I think it’s dangerous to advocate against religion that strongly. 

[SethInMI 145]

4 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

Considering that religion is the cause of most murder in the world - the practices should be punishable by death.

George Carlin:

“So I say, “Live and let live.” That’s my motto. “Live and let live.” And anyone who can’t go along with that, take him outside and shoot the motherfucker. It’s a simple philosophy, but it’s always worked in our family.”

[jakee 1,254]

5 hours ago, RonD1120 said:

https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/prominent-clergy-scholars-accuse-pope-francis-of-heresy-in-open-letter

Progressive liberal socialism/communism is being exposed in many areas, now including the Roman Catholic Church.

 

Because he thinks people should be nicer to each other?

 

Long live progressive liberalism!

[turtlespeed 212]

58 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

No, I disagree because I think it’s dangerous to advocate against religion that strongly. 

Is that because you don't wish to be murdered?

[gowlerk 1,912]

19 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Is that because you don't wish to be murdered?

No, I'm not afraid of them.

 

4 hours ago, gowlerk said:

- the practices should be punishable by death.

( despite the quotation system here, this is a quote from you, not me)

 

 

I'm not sure which particular practices you were referring to. I am not religious in any way. But I know it is as wrong  for me to tell others not to believe as it is for them to tell me what to believe.

Edited May 1, 2019 by gowlerk

[tonyhays 86]

For anyone who has a couple hours to spare, a debate on whether the Catholic church is a force for good in the world.

 

 

[ryoder 1,384]

40 minutes ago, tonyhays said:

For anyone who has a couple hours to spare, a debate on whether the Catholic church is a force for good in the world.

 

 

Christopher Hitchens and Stephen Fry?

This might be worth watching!

 

[Coreece 190]

On 5/1/2019 at 11:51 AM, turtlespeed said:

Considering that religion is the cause of most murder in the world - the practices should be punishable by death.

Careful, you're entering stage Left.  "It's all about the feels. . .feels, not facts!"

 

On 5/1/2019 at 12:54 PM, turtlespeed said:

Do you disagree just for the sake of diagreement?

In the name of religion - most murders are attributed to religion in one way or another. 

I agree that atheists killed 100+ millions of people because of their religion, among other things.  I'm guessing their motives probably had something to do with power and/or money in one way or another, as it is with most murders.

 

23 hours ago, gowlerk said:

No, I disagree because I think it’s dangerous to advocate against religion that strongly. 

Oh come on, it's like you're afraid of history repeating itself or something. . .

[yobnoc 142]

2 hours ago, Coreece said:

I agree that atheists killed 100+ millions of people because of their religion, among other things.  I'm guessing their motives probably had something to do with power and/or money in one way or another, as it is with most murders.

Atheism is *not* a religion.

By definition, it is a lack of belief in a deity or deities. 

A lack of belief in any religious deities logically cannot be a religion.

If it is, please elaborate on how atheism fits the Oxford definition for religion:

 

1. The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

 

1. 1.1  A particular system of faith and worship.
2. 1.2 A pursuit or interest followed with great devotion.

 

I'm sure you'll advocate for the metaphorical meaning in 1.2, but in the examples of its use it uses "consumerism is the new religion..."

Even the metaphorical 1.2 definition I don't find fits for Atheism.  I don't see how it could fit any more than not believing in unicorns or bigfoot could fit the definition of a religion. 

Do you believe in Leprechauns?  Are you part of a religion if you don't?  I'd say that's absurd, and I think most people would agree.

While it is true that there were dictators who were atheists, I haven't seen any evidence that anybody was killed in the "name" of atheism.  Even the sentence sounds absurd.  There is no doctrine to draw off of that would be referenced as an instructive guide to kill the "others," as you have with at least the three Abrahamic religions. 

 

 

[Coreece 190]

45 minutes ago, yobnoc said:

3 hours ago, Coreece said:

I agree that atheists killed 100+ millions of people because of their religion, among other things.  I'm guessing their motives probably had something to do with power and/or money in one way or another, as it is with most murders.

Atheism is *not* a religion.

I agree. I was saying that atheists killed people because of their religion (christianity, islam, etc.) not atheism.

[turtlespeed 212]

1 hour ago, yobnoc said:

Atheism is *not* a religion.

By definition, it is a lack of belief in a deity or deities. 

A lack of belief in any religious deities logically cannot be a religion.

If it is, please elaborate on how atheism fits the Oxford definition for religion:

 

1. The belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods.

 

1. 1.1  A particular system of faith and worship.
2. 1.2 A pursuit or interest followed with great devotion.

 

I'm sure you'll advocate for the metaphorical meaning in 1.2, but in the examples of its use it uses "consumerism is the new religion..."

Even the metaphorical 1.2 definition I don't find fits for Atheism.  I don't see how it could fit any more than not believing in unicorns or bigfoot could fit the definition of a religion. 

Do you believe in Leprechauns?  Are you part of a religion if you don't?  I'd say that's absurd, and I think most people would agree.

While it is true that there were dictators who were atheists, I haven't seen any evidence that anybody was killed in the "name" of atheism.  Even the sentence sounds absurd.  There is no doctrine to draw off of that would be referenced as an instructive guide to kill the "others," as you have with at least the three Abrahamic religions. 

 

 

It does work if you insert "Refuses to believe" . . . then it works.

[gowlerk 1,912]

22 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

It does work if you insert "Refuses to believe" . . . then it works.

But why would you chose "refuses" when in reality it should be "has no reason to"? To a believer an atheist denies god. But really an atheist denies nothing because there is nothing but a mystery. No one can deny the mystery, except those who choose to believe in a god myth of one kind or another. Atheists are the true believers. They don't follow lies.

[Coreece 190]

7 minutes ago, gowlerk said:

an atheist denies nothing

Sounds like they wouldn't make good scientists then. . .

[gowlerk 1,912]

18 minutes ago, Coreece said:

Sounds like they wouldn't make good scientists then. . .

Yeah, context is everything.

[yobnoc 142]

1 hour ago, turtlespeed said:

It does work if you insert "Refuses to believe" . . . then it works.

I am an atheist, and I definitely don't refuse to believe in a god or gods.  If given sufficient evidence to warrant belief, I absolutely would accept it.  I can say with 100% certainty that if the Abrahamic god (Yahweh, Allah) was somehow (unlikely) proven to exist though, I would not bend the knee based on principle alone.  Those gods are monstrous, and it would go against my moral compass to worship such entities based on the atrocities credited to them.

[yobnoc 142]

1 hour ago, Coreece said:

I agree. I was saying that atheists killed people because of their religion (christianity, islam, etc.) not atheism.

Unfortunately there's only one function for "liking" someone's post.  What I like is that you clarified the misunderstanding that came from the nuances of our clumsy language.  I'll have to look into the claim that people were exterminated for their religious beliefs alone; the only one I'm aware of that did that was Hitler, and he was decidedly *not* an atheist, though it is a popular claim by apologists that he was.  He wrote at length about his Christianity, was endorsed by the Vatican, and "Gott mit uns" was a slogan of the Nazi party, meaning "God with us."

[normiss 622]

14 minutes ago, yobnoc said:

Unfortunately there's only one function for "liking" someone's post.  What I like is that you clarified the misunderstanding that came from the nuances of our clumsy language.  I'll have to look into the claim that people were exterminated for their religious beliefs alone; the only one I'm aware of that did that was Hitler, and he was decidedly *not* an atheist, though it is a popular claim by apologists that he was.  He wrote at length about his Christianity, was endorsed by the Vatican, and "Gott mit uns" was a slogan of the Nazi party, meaning "God with us."

I'm suddenly reminded of another country with a similar slogan/motto. Hmmmm...

[gowlerk 1,912]

22 minutes ago, normiss said:

I'm suddenly reminded of another country with a similar slogan/motto. Hmmmm...

Bob Dylan, With God on our side - lyrics

http://www.bobdylan.com/songs/god-our-side/

[Coreece 190]

1 hour ago, yobnoc said:

I'll have to look into the claim that people were exterminated for their religious beliefs alone; the only one I'm aware of that did that was Hitler

I'm referring to communist/atheists that together killed millions for a variety of reasons, including religion.   Groups like the LMA that pushed anti-religious propaganda that resulted in the mass murder of numerous clergy members.

Their mindset was chillingly similar to many anti-religious bigots we hear today, even some in this very thread. (Not you, btw)

And sorry for all the wiki links, but they're still a good place to start.