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brenthutch

Green new deal equals magical thinking

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2 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

. . . and you believe that is a real possibility and not a rant?

Didn't you try to call out my statement in another thread that "anyone but Trump" literally meant anyone but Trump and not the vast array of people running against him.

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36 minutes ago, DJL said:

Didn't you try to call out my statement in another thread that "anyone but Trump" literally meant anyone but Trump and not the vast array of people running against him.

Yes.  Because it is the truth.  There are those out there that will vote for ANYONE but trump.

They would vote for Michael Jackson and Patrick Swayze as running mates before they would vote for trump.

 

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(edited)
15 minutes ago, turtlespeed said:

Yes.  Because it is the truth.  There are those out there that will vote for ANYONE but trump.

They would vote for Michael Jackson and Patrick Swayze as running mates before they would vote for trump.

 

Well....maybe Patrick Swayze.  Every press conference would just be highlights from Roadhouse.

Edited by DJL

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Some more good news more in line with the topic of this thread:

===================

US power output from renewables exceeds coal for the first time in history

By Jon [email protected]  Jun 26, 2019, 1:58pm EDT

The Verge

For the first time, the United States produced more energy from renewable sources than from coal, according to new figures from the US Energy Information Administration. Hydroelectric dams, solar panels, and wind turbines generated 68.5 million megawatt-hours of energy during the month of April 2019, compared to 60 million for coal.

A couple of different trends converged to make this milestone possible, some long-term, and some short-term. Over the long term, as Bloomberg notes, the country has been shifting toward natural gas, which is not only cheaper than coal, but it also emits less carbon dioxide (although it’s still a fossil fuel). Wind and solar farms are also springing up nationwide because they’ve become so cheap to build.

==================

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More "magical thinking" from a company in California:

=================================
New Solar + Battery Price Crushes Fossil Fuels, Buries Nuclear
Jeff McMahon

Forbes
Jul 1 2019

Los Angeles Power and Water officials have struck a deal on the largest and cheapest solar + battery-storage project in the world, at prices that leave fossil fuels in the dust and may relegate nuclear power to the dustbin.

Later this month the LA Board of Water and Power Commissioners is expected to approve a 25-year contract that will serve 7 percent of the city's electricity demand at 1.997¢/kwh for solar energy and 1.3¢ for power from batteries.

"This is the lowest solar-photovoltaic price in the United States," said James Barner, the agency's manager for strategic initiatives, "and it is the largest and lowest-cost solar and high-capacity battery-storage project in the U.S. and we believe in the world today. So this is, I believe, truly revolutionary in the industry."

It's half the estimated cost of power from a new natural gas plant.

. . .
"It reduces the evening ramp (of natural gas) as the sun sets," Barner told commissioners at their June 18 meeting. "As the sun goes down for our other 1,000 MW of solar that doesn’t have batteries, the gas-fired generation and hydro have to compensate for that. So that net peak load in the evening will be offset with this facility. We’ll be able to contribute to that and keep gas powered generation not running at the full amount."

Crudely, Los Angeles can count on solar power generation from 7 a.m. to 7 p.m., said Louis Ting, director of power planning development at the agency. The batteries in this project effectively extend that horizon four hours, to 11 p.m.

"The battery can be dispatched differently," Barner added, "depending on the system need. So you could run that four-hour battery over 16 hours at one-fourth of the output, so you can vary it over time. It’s not just fixed over four hours."

The plant will be developed by 8minute Solar Energy on 2,653 acres of privately-owned land in the Barren Ridge renewable corridor in Kern County. The development was first reported Friday by John Weaver at pv magazine, who noted in comments that the price for battery storage is not added on top of the solar price. It's a separate power product, sold at 1.3¢.

Barner explained that the plant will be able to generate more solar energy each day than the available transmission capacity. The extra power will be stored.

"The solar is inherently variable, and the battery is able to take a portion of that solar from that facility, the portion that’s variable, which is usually the top tend of it, take all of that, strip that off and then store it into the battery, so the facility can provide a constant output to the grid. It can turn this solar facility, which is not typically dispatchable, into a dispatchable type of facility."
. . 

A natural-gas plant opening that same year would produce power at more than twice the price, according to the U.S. Energy Information Agency, or 4¢-4.3¢/kwh. The agency did not bother modeling the estimated cost of coal or nuclear plants in its 2019 Energy Outlook because, it says, none are expected to be built. Nuclear often benefits from optimistic estimates in the range of 12¢/kwh. Nuclear's advantage has been its constancy and reliability, an advantage cheap storage increasingly challenges.

The lowest known solar price is 1.97¢ for a project in Mexico that did not include storage.
=======================

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On 6/27/2019 at 8:57 PM, billvon said:

Hydroelectric dams, solar panels, and wind turbines generated 68.5 million megawatt-hours of energy during the month of April 2019

All thanks to coal for causing AGW that caused record water levels and stronger winds!

:P

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(edited)

What is the cost of this project?

From the article....

"Is it your view that this steep price decreases will continue?" asked Commissioner Mel Levine.

"It’s a gamble," Pickel said. "You've got to know when you're gambling."

Maybe the folks handling the High Speed Rail project can be of some assistance.

Edited by airdvr
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13 minutes ago, airdvr said:

What is the cost of this project?

For the utility?  Stated right there in the article.

Total cost for 8minute?  That's an internal number, but since costs are around $1.25/watt and headed downwards, they will likely spend about $400 million on the solar portion.

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56 minutes ago, brenthutch said:

Then there’s this

https://www.technologyreview.com/f/613938/clean-energy-investments-are-plummeting-bloomberg-bnef/

“Worldwide funding of clean-energy projects fell to its lowest level in six years, in a staggering blow to the battle against climate change”

ROTFLMAO!

 

Even more ROTFLMAO to see someone post a thread about their perspective of clean energy energy efforts as political. Then use China as an example of why it isn't "working". Surely nothing political with any businesses nor development projects or efforts in China.

ROTFLMAO indeed.

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14 hours ago, brenthutch said:

Then there’s this

https://www.technologyreview.com/f/613938/clean-energy-investments-are-plummeting-bloomberg-bnef/

“Worldwide funding of clean-energy projects fell to its lowest level in six years, in a staggering blow to the battle against climate change”

ROTFLMAO!

 

Soooooo - when the stock market fell to its lowest in 25 years - did people give up on the stock market?

Did they Roll on the floor laughing?

 

Question - Did the market recover?

Is the market strong now?

 

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8 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

Soooooo - when the stock market fell to its lowest in 25 years - did people give up on the stock market?

Did they Roll on the floor laughing?

 

Question - Did the market recover?

Is the market strong now?

 

I am laughing at the notion that we are at the dawn of a great green energy transformation.  Interest and investment are drying up as the world starts to recognize the limitations of renewables.

My favorite line was “at this rate, it will take 400 years to convert to renewables”

To answer your point, yes the broader market is strong now but the market for green energy is headed in the same direction as the market for buggy whips.  

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10 hours ago, brenthutch said:

I am laughing at the notion that we are at the dawn of a great green energy transformation.  Interest and investment are drying up as the world starts to recognize the limitations of renewables.

My favorite line was “at this rate, it will take 400 years to convert to renewables”

To answer your point, yes the broader market is strong now but the market for green energy is headed in the same direction as the market for buggy whips.  

You do realize there is no "staying in one place" with society and technology - 

You are either progressing or regressing.

I would like to see advancement.

Why are you fighting that so hard.

Why do you find pleasure in setbacks that hinder advancement?

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I am not against renewables.  If they can stand on their own without government support, I am all for them.  I have a problem with billions of dollars being wasted on the insane notion that we have to “save the planet” or that we will run out of fossil fuels in the foreseeable future.  

Oh, and before anyone can say “ what about fossil fuels? They get subsidies”  I am against those as well.  

BTW same goes for Tesla.  They have amazing ground breaking technology, I just don’t think the taxpayer should help upper middle class folks pay for their toys when the money would best be spent by helping the poor 

 

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3 hours ago, brenthutch said:

 

Oh, and before anyone can say “ what about fossil fuels? They get subsidies”  I am against those as well.  

 

 

I'm going to go with - Not Really - 

I have seen you fight tooth and nail WRT monies going to renewables, But I'mma gunna call Bull shit until the scales are evened out and there are just as many threads about you having righteous indignation about the oil and coal subsidies, as often, and as loud.

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It's a pretty good example of "what's already here is normal, and OK; I, personally, am not hurt by the damage, so it doesn't matter." 

When seat belts were new, people were full of stories of people that were hurt by seat belts who would have been OK without them. I knew one who felt that way; she'd been trapped by it after a wreck, and had to wait for help. Another car hit hers, and she suffered cuts. Of course, had she not had the seat belt, there's a good chance that she would have been hurt worse, but no way you could convince her of that. So to all those people, "normal" included all the deaths and damage that no seat belts contributed to. 

So to some people, what we have now is perfect (kind of like how we're the "pinnacle of evolution"), and anything else can't make anything that currently exists less convenient for anyone (well, anyone that they care about), even if it brings about lots of other stuff that's better. 

Wendy P.

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8 hours ago, turtlespeed said:

I'm going to go with - Not Really - 

I have seen you fight tooth and nail WRT monies going to renewables, But I'mma gunna call Bull shit until the scales are evened out and there are just as many threads about you having righteous indignation about the oil and coal subsidies, as often, and as loud.

I’m glad you said “until the scales are evened out”.  I can assure you, as soon as renewables contribute more in taxes than they receive in subsidies I will end my jihad on things green.

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