yoink 321 #51 November 30, 2017 gowlerkI would like to propose a new plan. Instead of arranging things so that the richest people save lots and then "trickle down" happens I suggest that y'all try a plan that puts more money into the hands of the poorest. They will quickly spend it and it will end up with the rich anyway. I call this process "percolate up". I will probably donate a large portion of my Nobel economics prize to a worthy charity. Like Trump would. Remember the new buzz words, Percolate Up! I love it! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,403 #52 November 30, 2017 Latest analysis by the Joint Tax Committee shows that the tax bill will cause $400 billion in revenue growth over ten years (assuming no recessions of course) and will cost $1400 billion in revenue. So that's a trillion dollar addition to the debt. But what's a trillion dollars, right? Heck, a good war costs more than that. Borrow and spend! What the GOP does best. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,346 #53 December 1, 2017 Well, all the conservatives claim (falsely) that Obama increased the deficit more than any other president. Trump can't let Obama be #1 at anything. He has to make it "more bigly" than Obama did. "There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,346 #54 December 1, 2017 NewGuy2005Trickle down might work if the rich spent their money. Since they hoard it, no one benefits. That is turning out to be the case, more than I would have expected. A bunch of corporate execs were at a gathering and were asked how many expected to use the tax cut to benefit employees. Only a few raised their hands. Apparently, Gary Cohn was surprised. Dianne Feinstein has stated that the Ds introduced an amendment to require employers to use those tax savings to benefit employees at the same rate as stock buybacks and dividend increases. And of course, the Rs said "No." So much for "trickle down.""There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,915 #55 December 1, 2017 QuoteA bunch of corporate execs were at a gathering and were asked how many expected to use the tax cut to benefit employees. That question is nonsensical. It is not what corporations are for. Employees are valuable resources, and expensive to recruit and retain, but the goal is to spend as little as needed on them. That is one of the ways capitalism works.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,346 #56 December 1, 2017 gowlerkQuoteA bunch of corporate execs were at a gathering and were asked how many expected to use the tax cut to benefit employees. That question is nonsensical. It is not what corporations are for. Employees are valuable resources, and expensive to recruit and retain, but the goal is to spend as little as needed on them. That is one of the ways capitalism works. Sure. I don't fault the corporate execs for those decisions. They are going to do what they can to help their businesses. It is far, far more illustrative of the idiocy of both the Republican party and the "middle class" voters who put them into place. The Rs along with Trump and his minions keep touting how much better off those "ordinary people" will be because the businesses will spend so much of this money from the tax cuts on their employees. Gary Cohn was apparently taken aback at how few were actually planning on doing that. Kinda funny how the President's Economic Advisor knows so little about, you know, how businesses and the economy actually function."There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,915 #57 December 1, 2017 Trump tax plan is best described by a verse of a John Fogerty song: Some folks are born silver spoon in hand Lord, don't they help themselves, oh But when the taxman comes to the door Lord, the house looks like a rummage sale, yesAlways remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,403 #58 December 1, 2017 >Kinda funny how the President's Economic Advisor knows so little about, you >know, how businesses and the economy actually function. I suppose you want some ivory-tower intellectual elite types to make critical decisions, instead of ordinary Joes who know what life's all about! Typical liberal. I mean, sure, he doesn't know how economies work, but I bet he knows whether Jadis is going to get it on with Rick in the next epsiode of The Walking Dead. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,633 #59 December 1, 2017 gowlerkQuoteA bunch of corporate execs were at a gathering and were asked how many expected to use the tax cut to benefit employees. That question is nonsensical. It is not what corporations are for. Employees are valuable resources, and expensive to recruit and retain, but the goal is to spend as little as needed on them. That is one of the ways capitalism works. No, it's not at all nonsensical. It's highly illustrative of the lies being told to the people by the GOP.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,915 #60 December 1, 2017 QuoteNo, it's not at all nonsensical. It's highly illustrative of the lies being told to the people by the GOP. But John, that is the very definition of nonsense!Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 913 #61 December 1, 2017 wolfriverjoe***QuoteA bunch of corporate execs were at a gathering and were asked how many expected to use the tax cut to benefit employees. That question is nonsensical. It is not what corporations are for. Employees are valuable resources, and expensive to recruit and retain, but the goal is to spend as little as needed on them. That is one of the ways capitalism works. Sure. I don't fault the corporate execs for those decisions. They are going to do what they can to help their businesses. It is far, far more illustrative of the idiocy of both the Republican party and the "middle class" voters who put them into place. The Rs along with Trump and his minions keep touting how much better off those "ordinary people" will be because the businesses will spend so much of this money from the tax cuts on their employees. Gary Cohn was apparently taken aback at how few were actually planning on doing that. Kinda funny how the President's Economic Advisor knows so little about, you know, how businesses and the economy actually function. Never confuse acting with ignorance. They all know. Corporations have a duty to follow all law and to deliver profits to shareholders. The US federal reserve has pumped 4.4 trillion into the US economy since 2008. i.e. in the last decade. The EU central bank has pumped 2.4 trillion into the European union economy the last five years, more or less. They are both starting to unwind these programs. https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDEGDQ188S Meanwhile world government debt has gone from 60 to 94% since the last US recession. https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/GC.DOD.TOTL.GD.ZS?view=chart https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/24/fed-sets-process-to-unravel-4-point-5-trillion-balance-sheet.html So if anyone believes the trump-republican tax plan is going to do anything. More than the .2-.4% US GDP stimulus to growth, that the was referenced in the Chicago study that I posted previously. They should read the stories again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,633 #62 December 3, 2017 Pretty good commentary: www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/senate-republicans-just-failed-governing-101/2017/12/02/ee1d0f68-d6c6-11e7-95bf-df7c19270879_story.html?utm_term=.6a32403c199d&wpisrc=nl_rainbow&wpmm=1 THE NATIONAL debt is $20 trillion and rising. That is the highest it has been as a slice of the economy since 1950. Now the Senate has approved a tax plan that would make the problem substantially worse while widening inequality and reducing access to health-care coverage. The current generation will pay. The next will pay more. Republicans were warned over and over again. The Joint Committee on Taxation, an important congressional scorekeeper, reported Thursday that the Senate plan would add $1 trillion to the debt — and that is after accounting for any economic growth the bill would spur. The committee was just the latest nonpartisan group to predict massive new debt. But Republicans who have inveighed against budget deficits for years simply ignored the numbers. Sen. Bob Corker (Tenn.) was the lone exception, showing his colleagues what integrity looks like by voting no. More in the complete article. (Edited to get rid of funny characters in the cut and paste).... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
normiss 622 #63 December 3, 2017 But it declares life begins at conception! Curious what the legal odds are on that footnote. It adds nothing to the current ability to create savings accounts for the baby a woman is carrying, yet it is a clear message. The Republicans want to change the language and the message is clear of a long term attempt at change. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 913 #64 December 3, 2017 Excellent analysis of how the plan benefits the trump-Kushner commercial real estate aspects of business. https://thinkprogress.org/trumps-tax-plan-is-full-of-goodies-for-wealthy-real-estate-investors-f53a51d271ff/ https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/30/business/trump-benefit-tax-cuts.html http://fortune.com/2017/10/02/trump-gop-tax-plan-mortgage-interest-deduction/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wolfriverjoe 1,346 #65 December 4, 2017 Well, apparently somebody is upset about the tax plan. (note to the humor impared: It's satire)"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy "~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil1111 913 #66 December 4, 2017 wolfriverjoeWell, apparently somebody is upset about the tax plan. (note to the humor impared: It's satire) Thanks for that. In the long term there are bigger issues than a $1 trillion hit to the deficit. The stagnation of US wages and employment income in the face of the recovery. Is a large part of why trump was elected. Moving America's workforce into upstream manufacturing jobs. From the jobs that are increasingly threatened by the new economy. - Increasing automation: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/sep/13/artificial-intelligence-robots-threat-jobs-forrester-report https://www.wired.com/story/robots-threaten-bigger-slice-of-jobs-in-us-other-rich-nations/ -Job losses from changes to the delivery of goods and transportation: https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2017-jobs-automation-risk/ The tax budget as proposed, changes the ability to introduce programs to retrain due to fiscal restraints. The concepts that the federal government should be directing the economy. Seems to be a forgotten concept to republicans. Simply put 5-6 years from now the tax breaks to the average working American will end. Job displacing technologies will have a increasing bite on their wages. Together with the number of industries that employ lower skilled workers. Which brings the discussion back to your joke. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,633 #67 December 4, 2017 Special tax break for wealthy hedge fund managers? I'm shocked, SHOCKED! www.facebook.com/senatorsanders/videos/10156545332157908/?hc_ref=ARQNM1vVxeJhVJBlfnK8EvKQfnrAN0HBNaTdBZmeCKrzpi-EoU8RguCXQmtOs3zNIHc&pnref=story... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skwrl 56 #68 December 5, 2017 kallendSpecial tax break for wealthy hedge fund managers? I'm shocked, SHOCKED! www.facebook.com/senatorsanders/videos/10156545332157908/?hc_ref=ARQNM1vVxeJhVJBlfnK8EvKQfnrAN0HBNaTdBZmeCKrzpi-EoU8RguCXQmtOs3zNIHc&pnref=story Given what I know of most skydivers’ finances and the current bill, I actually have a little bit of (well, lots of) schadenfreude for any Trump supporters here. Man, it’s going to screw over a lot of you. You won’t internalize this, and you’ll vote against your own best interest forever because you’re good little robots, but it’s hilarious. I just wish it didn’t screw the whole county over so horribly as you did so. And yeah, I’m a jerk for calling you out. But after a little more math i realized I do OK (actually huge tax cut) on this tax plan. Most don’t. I wish it were not so. It’s terrible policy. I feel terrible for my friends who fought against this and lost. But for now, since we can’t stop that, I’m going to laugh at those who drank the Kool Aid and set the entire country up for failure. Great job, you brilliant minds. I really hope there is a sea change and we undo this in 2018. I would happily pay the same rate - even more - for a stable and sane society. But Republidrones, your masters have called and you must represent. Thanks for the cut. P.S., I’m not making any jobs. <3 P.P.S., I’m so sad RushMC won’t swoop in to protect the tax plan. He usually is a reliable asset for the cause. I hope he didn’t do the math and realize he loses out!Skwrl Productions - Wingsuit Photography Northeast Bird School - Chief Logistics Guy and Video Dork Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,403 #69 December 5, 2017 In other tax bill news: McConnell needed Susan Collins' vote desperately for the tax bill, but she concerns about it - three big ones, including Medicare cuts in her state. So he offered her a deal. ============================= Collins said Thursday that she confronted McConnell "asking what is the plan to avert [the cuts]" and was told that Congress would vote to waive the PAYGO cuts as they have more than a dozen times before, likely as part of the end-of-the-year government funding package. "I met with Senator McConnell just yesterday, and he has assured me that that will not be allowed to happen," Collins said. "If it were going to occur, I would not even be considering voting for this [tax] bill." ============================== Surprise surprise! None of the changes they promised her will happen; they were changed after the vote. "The 3 big promises @SenatorCollins got will NOT be done before the final vote on the tax bill. The bill to keep the govt open does NOT include Alexander-Murray, reinsurance, or waiver of Medicare cuts. — Topher Spiro" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,050 #70 December 5, 2017 Hi Bill, QuoteSenator McConnell . . . has assured me Anybody who trusts that snake oil saleman McConnell is living in a dream world. Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,633 #71 December 5, 2017 Looks like the Walton family make out like gangbusters. They get $53 Billion worth of savings thanks to the GOP's taking care of the middle class.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,403 #72 December 14, 2017 So the GOP is trying to sell the latest plan by claiming that most middle class people will get tax cuts. For a while. But now that's changing, too: ============================== GOP considers letting tax cuts for families expire sooner By Erica Werner and Damian Paletta December 14 at 1:03 PM WaPo Congressional Republicans are looking at shortening the duration of tax cuts that their plan would give to families and individuals, a leading lawmaker said Thursday. That change would free up more revenue for additional changes to their tax overhaul, but it could also heighten complaints that the bill prioritizes cuts for corporations over households. Under a tax overhaul bill passed by the Senate earlier this month, tax cuts for all American households would expire at the end of 2025. But Republicans are now considering having those tax cuts expire in 2024. “That’s one of the things we’re looking at,” Senate Finance Committee Chairman Orrin G. Hatch (R-Utah) said Thursday when asked about shortening the duration. ================================ So, yeah, you might not get a tax cut. And even if you do, it will expire. But not until 2025! Well, 2024. Well, OK, maybe 2022. Or maybe sooner. It all depends on how much Exxon contributes to the GOP before the vote. Fill the swamp! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,050 #73 December 15, 2017 Hi Bill, Quote GOP is trying to sell the latest plan Looks like they may not have a sale just yet. "Rubio comes out against GOP tax bill" https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/rubio-comes-out-against-gop-tax-bill-passage-uncertain-n829836 Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryoder 1,390 #74 December 15, 2017 JerryBaumchen Looks like they may not have a sale just yet. "Rubio comes out against GOP tax bill" https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/congress/rubio-comes-out-against-gop-tax-bill-passage-uncertain-n829836 Jerry Baumchen Good! Nice to see a Republican with at least a partial spine."There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,050 #75 December 15, 2017 Hi Robert, QuoteRepublican with at least a partial spine. Considering how Trump treated Rubio during the campaign to get the nomination, I would not vote for anything that Trump could use to gloat over. Period, end of discussion. But that is just me, Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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