Musk, Mars, and Jamestown

[quade 3]

I love Elon Musk's solutions to transporting people to Mars. The man is a genius. However, I can't help wondering how he will deal with what I'm calling the "Jamestown Problems."

From Wikipedia;

Quote

Many in the group were either gentlemen unused to work or their manservants, both equally unaccustomed to the hard labor demanded by the harsh task of carving out a viable colony.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamestown,_Virginia#Arrival_and_beginning_.281607.E2.80.931609.29

On each ship he'll have 100 paying customers and five crew members. Once the ships arrive on Mars, do the crew members remain "in charge"? What if the 100 paying customers decide they don't want to be under their control? What if a few of the paying customers decide they don't like whatever work assignments have been given to them? Do the crew members cut off their oxygen supply?

Until Mars becomes self-sustaining, does Musk essentially rule the civilization?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[billvon 2,400]

Quote

What if a few of the paying customers decide they don't like whatever work assignments have been given to them? Do the crew members cut off their oxygen supply?

If enough people don't like the work assignments, their oxygen supply will get cut off anyway.

This isn't something that's going to work with the wrong people.

[quade 3]

billvon

Quote

What if a few of the paying customers decide they don't like whatever work assignments have been given to them? Do the crew members cut off their oxygen supply?

If enough people don't like the work assignments, their oxygen supply will get cut off anyway.

This isn't something that's going to work with the wrong people.

Fine for Generation 0. What happens a few years down the line?

Seriously, I think this is one of the big unanswered questions in the entire Mars colonization thing regardless of whose proposal you read. Nobody seems to want to address how it's going to be governed.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[gowlerk 1,914]

Quote

Nobody seems to want to address how it's going to be governed.

That's because Mars colonization is nothing but an escapist fantasy. The engineering problems are insurmountable. Even for Mr. Musk. We may be able to get there, but living there is not possible in the foreseeable future. We need to focus on the only inhabitable planet we can reach.

Mars is not going to be like Jamestown. There will be no natives to draw upon for help.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[wolfriverjoe 1,341]

I'm going to guess that most of those planning it are presuming that the "right people" will be chosen.
And I will guess that it will be run along the lines of an old time ship at sea (which actually makes a pretty good analogy if you think about it).

Captain and senior officers are in charge. Absolute charge. Anyone who screws up bad enough will get punished.

And yes, that punishment may well include "throw them out of the airlock without a suit."
Too much punishment, unfair punishment, playing favorites, all that might incite a mutiny.

After all, what could anyone on earth do about it?

As long as there is only one compound, that may well be the only choice. Once there are more than one, it may change.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[billvon 2,400]

>Fine for Generation 0. What happens a few years down the line?

You mean a few decades? They form their own government. It will have to be more socialist than the governments we are used to, since they can't even take having free air for granted.

If it doesn't work, they all die (which is a pretty good incentive.)

[jakee 1,257]

quade

***

Quote

What if a few of the paying customers decide they don't like whatever work assignments have been given to them? Do the crew members cut off their oxygen supply?

If enough people don't like the work assignments, their oxygen supply will get cut off anyway.

This isn't something that's going to work with the wrong people.

Fine for Generation 0. What happens a few years down the line?

At a general level, is it that different to how it works on earth?

Some people need to grow food. Some people need to work in the sewers. Some people need to work in the mines. Some people need to do everything that needs to be done for society to function. And they do.

In a sense it would be easier for Mars generation 1, 2, 3 etc to do what needs to be done, because they won't know any different.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[JoePancakes 0]

Capt. John Smith of Jamestown passed a law: "Those who do not work, shall not eat."

That should be made clear from the start, no matter how wealthy the passengers are.

[quade 3]

JoePancakes

Capt. John Smith of Jamestown passed a law: "Those who do not work, shall not eat."

That should be made clear from the start, no matter how wealthy the passengers are.

And what happens to the person, who through no fault of his own, becomes sick or injured? Waste of resources? Toss them out the airlock?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[AlanS 1]

This is an interesting question.

One way to address is it have all 100 plus some many backups spend an entire year working together in an isolated and harsh environment like Antartica. Many people will realize quickly that they aren't cut out for it and leave voluntarily. A few who can't get along with others people would need to be cut. The remaining will have time to train for this skills they will need and have a year to practice them.

It would take a certain kind of person to do something like this. People with a lot of grit and determination. People like skydivers.

There is an excellent science fiction book series about this called: Red Mars, Green Mars, Blue Mars. The author Kim Stanley Robinson lives in Davis, California. If you haven't read the book I recommend it.

[yoink 321]

AlanS

It would take a certain kind of person to do something like this. People with a lot of grit and determination. People like skydivers.

Oh god no.

[quade 3]

yoink

***
It would take a certain kind of person to do something like this. People with a lot of grit and determination. People like skydivers.

Oh god no.

Valentina was picked to be the first woman in space because she was a skydiver[/I]. Not kidding. You can look it up.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[yoink 321]

quade

******
It would take a certain kind of person to do something like this. People with a lot of grit and determination. People like skydivers.

Oh god no.

Valentina was picked to be the first woman in space because she was a skydiver[/I]. Not kidding. You can look it up.

I'm not denying that skydivers generally have some good qualities for stressful situations. Plus Valentina is just awesome.

Just that if you lock a bunch of them together for a long time then they're probably more likely to explode than a typical cross section of people from different groups.

We're typically super Type-A personalities. Lots of chiefs, no indians.

[Airgump 1]

mars would be a great place to start a prison colony, much in the way that australia was initially used by the brits.

i think barry soetoro and his criminal gang would be an awesome start in this endeavor. he, barry, still wants to be king rat of something, and mars would be a wonderful planet for a grand liberal experiment.

[Phil1111 911]

Airgump

mars would be a great place to start a prison colony, much in the way that australia was initially used by the brits.

i think barry soetoro and his criminal gang would be an awesome start in this endeavor. he, barry, still wants to be king rat of something, and mars would be a wonderful planet for a grand liberal experiment.

I was thinking it will be a GREAT place for trump. The mars mission will be getting off the ground, if you pardon the pun. About the same time trumponomics is shown to be the most massive failure in conservative ideology since tulipomania.

There would be only rich people there and he could drive his golf carts anywhere.

[billvon 2,400]

>I was thinking it will be a GREAT place for trump. . . .There would be only rich
>people there and he could drive his golf carts anywhere.

His colony will be YUGE! The best ever. No one can do extraterrestrial colonies like Trump. He will bring oxygen to the deserts and turn a dessicated planet into paradise. It's going to be so great, you'll get sick of all the greatness there.

And, of course, it's orange.

[DJL 232]

yoink

*********
It would take a certain kind of person to do something like this. People with a lot of grit and determination. People like skydivers.

Oh god no.

Valentina was picked to be the first woman in space because she was a skydiver[/I]. Not kidding. You can look it up.

I'm not denying that skydivers generally have some good qualities for stressful situations. Plus Valentina is just awesome.

Just that if you lock a bunch of them together for a long time then they're probably more likely to explode than a typical cross section of people from different groups.

We're typically super Type-A personalities. Lots of chiefs, no indians.

Great, love triangles, opinions about how the owners need to run the place, staff bitching about the quantity and type of work they get depending on the weather, everyone shows up in the morning smelling like the ass end of a donkey, and everyone brags that they have a job lined up on Venus and can leave at any time.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[billvon 2,400]

Quote

Great, love triangles, opinions about how the owners need to run the place, staff bitching about the quantity and type of work they get depending on the weather, everyone shows up in the morning smelling like the ass end of a donkey, and everyone brags that they have a job lined up on Venus and can leave at any time.

And people will pencil pack pressure suit and rebreather inspections. Until someone dies a gruesome death, then everyone will be all over inspections for about a month.

All the cool kids will use the thinnest, lightest pressure suits possible, even when they get so thin that they regularly rupture when exposed to Martian fines. "Won't happen to me," the cool kids will say. "I know how to stand so that those fines won't abrade the suit. But if you can't even stand properly, I guess you should get one of those boat-anchor beginner suits."

Someone will work out a shortcut for airlock cycling. They'll notice that as soon as the internal airlock temperature hits 45 degrees F (due to the incoming pressurized air) then you are good to open the interior door. A few people are almost killed when the door opens with a force of several tons of air pressure behind it, but the "45 degree rule" persists for years, despite daily warnings that it doesn't work.

[gowlerk 1,914]

Quote

but the "45 degree rule" persists for years, despite daily warnings that it doesn't work.

Priceless, perfect set up and execution.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[wolfriverjoe 1,341]

gowlerk

Quote

but the "45 degree rule" persists for years, despite daily warnings that it doesn't work.

Priceless, perfect set up and execution.

Yeah. That one wins the "DZ.com bad pun/inside joke of the year".

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[DJL 232]

billvon

Quote

Great, love triangles, opinions about how the owners need to run the place, staff bitching about the quantity and type of work they get depending on the weather, everyone shows up in the morning smelling like the ass end of a donkey, and everyone brags that they have a job lined up on Venus and can leave at any time.

And people will pencil pack pressure suit and rebreather inspections. Until someone dies a gruesome death, then everyone will be all over inspections for about a month.

All the cool kids will use the thinnest, lightest pressure suits possible, even when they get so thin that they regularly rupture when exposed to Martian fines. "Won't happen to me," the cool kids will say. "I know how to stand so that those fines won't abrade the suit. But if you can't even stand properly, I guess you should get one of those boat-anchor beginner suits."

Someone will work out a shortcut for airlock cycling. They'll notice that as soon as the internal airlock temperature hits 45 degrees F (due to the incoming pressurized air) then you are good to open the interior door. A few people are almost killed when the door opens with a force of several tons of air pressure behind it, but the "45 degree rule" persists for years, despite daily warnings that it doesn't work.

And you know there's going to be two Russians who just do whatever the fuck they want to, even beyond normal skydiver standards.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[quade 3]

DJL

And you know there's going to be two Russians who just do whatever the fuck they want to, even beyond normal skydiver standards.

Now, now, let's not be so parochial. Assholes are found at every drop zone all over the planet and eventually every planet with a jumpable atmosphere.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[ryoder 1,387]

DJL

And you know there's going to be two Russians who just do whatever the fuck they want to, even beyond normal skydiver standards.

And one of them will be overheard ranting:
"Components. American components, Russian Components, ALL MADE IN TAIWAN!!!"

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[nolhtairt 0]

ryoder

***
And you know there's going to be two Russians who just do whatever the fuck they want to, even beyond normal skydiver standards.

And one of them will be overheard ranting:
"Components. American components, Russian Components, ALL MADE IN TAIWAN!!!"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEkOT3IngMQ

[SethInMI 145]

wolfriverjoe

***

Quote

but the "45 degree rule" persists for years, despite daily warnings that it doesn't work.

Priceless, perfect set up and execution.

Yeah. That one wins the "DZ.com bad pun/inside joke of the year".


Nicely done Mr. V.

It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".