Russiagate

[rushmc 18]

SkyDekker

Quote

I don't know
No one knows

Less than an hour ago you were ridiculing people for possibly thinking the president asked for his loyalty.

Dude

His new statement just came out!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,145]

Exactly, though this was already widely reported for quite some time.

Yet you still steadfastly believed this never happened. What were you basing that on?

[billvon 2,434]

>Less than an hour ago you were ridiculing people for possibly thinking the
>president asked for his loyalty.

Give him a few more hours. He'll be ridiculing anyone who thinks that Trump did NOT ask Comey for his loyalty - and then he'll claim that it means nothing.

[aphid 0]

normiss

Comey's opening statement for tomorrow

from the statement:

Quote

Creating written records immediately after one-on-one conversations with Mr. Trump was my practice from that point forward. This had not been my practice in the past.

I had a person in my life for a time that I documented every private conversation we had. After he departed my company he attempted to bring suit for wrongful dismissal. After seeing copies of my notes, his lawyer convinced him to drop it.

Quote

I spoke alone with President Obama twice in person (and never on the phone) – once in 2015 to discuss law enforcement policy issues and a second time, briefly, for him to say goodbye in late 2016. In neither of those circumstances did I memorialize the discussions. I can recall nine one-on-one conversations with President Trump in four months – three in person and six on the phone.

Fascinating.

[billvon 2,434]

>Comey needed firing. He should have been fired BEFORE Trump came of office.

OK, so your latest claim is that Comey should have been fired a long time ago, and that it just took a while for Trump to do it. Let's review:

Trump, Oct 31: “I tell you what, what [Comey] did, he brought back his reputation. He brought it back. He's got to hang tough. A lot of people want him to do the wrong thing. What he did was the right thing.”

Trump, Nov 13: "I respect him a lot. I respect the FBI a lot."

Trump, per Comey's statement:

"Near the end of our dinner, the President returned to the subject of my job, saying he was very glad I wanted to stay, adding that he had heard great things about me from Jim Mattis, Jeff Sessions, and many others. He then said, "I need loyalty." "

So Trump was glad he was staying on, and complimented him on his performance. He then demanded loyalty. Comey refused to submit to Trump.

Trump later called him and said "I hope you can see your way clear to letting this go, to letting Flynn go. He is a good guy. I hope you can let this go." Comey did not submit.

Trump, in his final call to Comey, reminded him that Comey owed him. "He said he would do that and added, "Because I have been very loyal to you, very loyal; we had that thing you know." I did not reply or ask him what he meant by "that thing." I said only that the way to handle it was to have the White House Counsel call the Acting Deputy Attorney General."

Comey did not submit.

He was then fired.

So it sure sounds like Trump did NOT think Comey should have been fired, and only fired him when it became clear that Comey would not bow to Trump's wishes.

So far we've gotten confirmation in his statement of everything reported about Comey's interaction with Trump.

[ryoder 1,400]

When Trump demanded "loyalty", Comey should have reminded him that:
1. The US is a representative republic, not a monarchy.
2. They both had already sworn loyalty when they took office...to the Constitution.

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[TriGirl 277]

ryoder

When Trump demanded "loyalty", Comey should have reminded him that:
1. The US is a representative republic, not a monarchy.
2. They both had already sworn loyalty when they took office...to the Constitution.

That's what I was thinking as well, but not until about an hour after I read the statement. It was probably one of those situations where he was caught off guard, and couldn't believe what he was hearing. He probably thought about something along those lines the next day and said to himself, "damn, I should have said xxx instead!"

See the upside, and always wear your parachute! -- Christopher Titus

Shut Up & Jump!

[jakee 1,259]

Quote

I had a person in my life for a time that I documented every private conversation we had. After he departed my company he attempted to bring suit for wrongful dismissal. After seeing copies of my notes, his lawyer convinced him to drop it.

It figures. We already know that Trump's own lawyers will only meet with him in pairs in case he tries to screw them over with misrememberings of their conversations and they need corroboration.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[kallend 1,648]

rushmc

On May 3rd, under oath, he testified that he was NOT pressured to drop the investigation.

Clearly you failed to comprehend the ACTUAL wording of the question he was asked, and to which he answered.

You really should read some real news outlets instead of the right wing lie generators that you favor.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ryoder 1,400]

At this point the only thing that would keep people from watching Comey's testimony is if someone aired the Russian peeing tape at the same time.

-- Andy Borowitz (on FB)

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

SkyDekker

Quote

Multiple reports already have stated they had no effect on the election outcome!!!

Uhm, no. Multiple reports say it is unknown if they had an effect on the election outcome.

Considering that the full scope of the meddling hasn't been established, at least publicly. It is impossible to say if there was any influence on the election outcome.

Well, to be a bit pedantic, the Russian hacking had no effect on the election. That is, despite apparent efforts to do so, they were unable to get into the actual voting machines and alter the outcome of the election. Or throw it's legitimacy into doubt. There's some question about what they were actually trying to accomplish.

Their influence on the campaign, however is pretty clear. They did everything they could to discredit HRC and promote DJT. They did a pretty good job of it too.

To be honest, given all the crap that the US has done over the years to "alter the outcome" of various elections, both before and after (Iran? Chile?), our complaints about Russian interference are pretty hypocritical.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[yoink 321]

wolfriverjoe

To be honest, given all the crap that the US has done over the years to "alter the outcome" of various elections, both before and after (Iran? Chile?), our complaints about Russian interference are pretty hypocritical.

So what?

Are you really suggesting that because we've done something in the past we should be completely fine with it being done to us?

I don't buy it.

[gowlerk 1,925]

Tomorrow Comey will testify. Then the R leadership will secretly meet and decide if they can get away with joining the Ds in an impeachment move. Trump probably has not broken the law, but impeachment is political, not legal. I'm pretty sure they don't have enough nerve to take the chance. Trump will survive for now.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[billvon 2,434]

Quote

Tomorrow Comey will testify. Then the R leadership will secretly meet and decide if they can get away with joining the Ds in an impeachment move. Trump probably has not broken the law, but impeachment is political, not legal. I'm pretty sure they don't have enough nerve to take the chance. Trump will survive for now.

Agreed. Comey will confirm everything that has been reported so far about his interactions with Trump, and the GOP will switch from "it's all LIES and fake news!" to "So what? It doesn't matter."

At some point the GOP will get tired of spending all their efforts cleaning up after Trump's messes, but they have a ways to go before they get there.

[SkyDekker 1,145]

Quote

Well, to be a bit pedantic, the Russian hacking had no effect on the election.

There is no way to know that. There is no way to know that their meddling during the campaign did not have an influence on the outcome of the election.

Quote

To be honest, given all the crap that the US has done over the years to "alter the outcome" of various elections, both before and after (Iran? Chile?), our complaints about Russian interference are pretty hypocritical.

What an insane argument.

1. Trying to ensure your own elections are fair and free of interference is rather important. Even if you have a habit of trying to alter the outcome of elections in other countries.
2. There are many things the US has done, but strongly objects to other countries doing. I am sure many of those you agree with.

[billvon 2,434]

So what's Trump doing today as the hearings are going on?
==================================================
White House officials are trying to keep Trump's hands off his Twitter account, but the President is expected to keep tabs on the hearing as it unfurls.

A White House official said Trump won't be watching the whole hearing -- calling that a "good thing" -- but he is expected to monitor developments, popping into the White House dining room where several of his aides and his personal attorney on the Russia investigation Marc Kasowitz will be monitoring the hearing.

"I don't think he'll be glued to the TV," the official said, adding the expectation is that the President will not tweet about the hearing -- but no one can be sure.

Trump's aides are, however, doing what they can to keep Trump busy, and away from his Twitter account, one Republican close to the White House said.
================================================
Are they really talking about the President of the US here, or a 10 year old with ADHD? "Well, we tried to keep him away from the TV and off his phone, but he went into the bathroom, locked the door and started tweeting again. Now he won't come out. We're sending someone to get KFC; that usually works to get him out."

[tkhayes 140]

"But what about her emails?" - by some unnamed senator from AZ

[kallend 1,648]

I thought Trump's personal lawyer sounded like he was defending a mob boss.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[wolfriverjoe 1,351]

SkyDekker

Quote

Well, to be a bit pedantic, the Russian hacking had no effect on the election.

There is no way to know that. There is no way to know that their meddling during the campaign did not have an influence on the outcome of the election.

***To be honest, given all the crap that the US has done over the years to "alter the outcome" of various elections, both before and after (Iran? Chile?), our complaints about Russian interference are pretty hypocritical.

What an insane argument.

1. Trying to ensure your own elections are fair and free of interference is rather important. Even if you have a habit of trying to alter the outcome of elections in other countries.
2. There are many things the US has done, but strongly objects to other countries doing. I am sure many of those you agree with.

One more time. Their propaganda push likely had an effect. Trump's victory was something of a "perfect storm".
I don't doubt that there were a number of votes that were swayed by the Russian info dumps, either the ones via Wikileaks, or the "Agit-prop" type of stuff (hey - where's Roy these days?)
Russia has been doing that sort of thing for decades. They've just gotten more sophisticated lately.

But I was splitting hairs somewhat. They Russians tried to hack the election itself. Into the voting machines (the release of that info is what the contractor was recently arrested for). They were not successful in that effort.
That is what they "had no effect on", the integrity of the vote itself.

And, no. I don't agree with a lot of what the US has done.

Prop up brutal dictators for military bases (Phillipines & Cuba)?

Prop up brutal dictators to ensure US business can have access (Central America and the Middle East)?

No.

Interfere with free and fair elections (All over the fucking world)?

No. There's very little that can be done or is done that I would not want done to us that I find acceptable.

I don't like what Russia did. But I'm not surprised by it, nor terribly offended by it. It's what they do.
I wonder if their goal was to stop HRC from gaining the presidency, because she would likely have called them out on their misbehavior. Or was it to get someone who is a complete idiot, buffoon, and completely clueless on foreign policy (not anyone in particular)? Or was it to get Trump in particular in, because he's not Clinton, the idiotic buffoon with no FP skills, and because they have leverage over him? Interesting question.

However, the idea that the Trump campaign conspired with Russia to win the election is a problem.
There are laws against that sort of thing. If it can be proven (still a question), then some people (Flynn, Kushner, Sessions for a start) should go to prison.
I seem to recall that we electrocuted people for conspiring with the Russians some time ago.
I'm not advocating that, but it's something to remember.

"There are NO situations which do not call for a French Maid outfit." Lucky McSwervy

"~ya don't GET old by being weak & stupid!" - Airtwardo

[SkyDekker 1,145]

Thanks for the clarification. Very much in agreement.

[Phil1111 913]

kallend

I thought Trump's personal lawyer sounded like he was defending a mob boss.

Are you suggesting the trump/kushner gang, which is involved in using the law where you can't indict a sitting president. Isn't using that position for self enrichment, business self promotion and obstruction of the disclosures of those actions?

[billvon 2,434]

After frantically hunting for his phone for over 24 hours, he finally found out where his kids hid it - in the pages of a book, a place Trump would ordinarily never look.

So what was his first tweet?

"Despite so many false statements and lies, total and complete vindication...and WOW, Comey is a leaker!"

That may not have the sting that Trump intended, coming as it does from the leaker-in-chief.

[billvon 2,434]

It's Thursday, which means it's time for the next installment in the Russiagate saga.

Looks like Sessions may have had yet another meeting with the Russians that he refused to disclose. The first two have already gotten him in hot water. From FOX:

============
During his January confirmation hearing, Sessions told Sen. Al Franken, D-Minn., that he “did not have communications with the Russians.” But as first reported by The Washington Post, Sessions spoke twice last year with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak—once in July at a Heritage Foundation event on the sidelines of the Republican National Convention, and another in then-Sen. Sessions’ office.
============

This led to his recusal - although he claimed it had nothing to do with that; it was all just because he was associated with the Trump campaign. From NPR:

============
"I should not be involved in investigating a campaign I had a role in," Sessions said. His rationale was that his role as a high-profile surrogate and advisor for the Trump campaign made it inappropriate for him to be involved in an investigation of that same campaign, a rationale which received little pushback, except reportedly from the president himself.

In fact, Sessions' recusal came after he said in his confirmation hearing that he "did not have communications with the Russians." Sessions had met with Kislyak twice during 2016, though Sessions said his misstatement was a result of the fact that he met with Kislyak in his role as a senator involved in foreign policy.
=============

Then, yesterday, from Comey we heard this - "We also were aware of facts that I can't discuss in an open setting that would make his continued engagement in a Russia-related investigation problematic." He went on to expand on this in the closed session, where he spoke about additional meetings between the Russians and Sessions. From CNN:

======================
Congressional investigators are examining whether Sessions had an additional private meeting with Russia's ambassador during the presidential campaign, according to Republican and Democratic Hill sources and intelligence officials briefed on the investigation.

The investigators were focusing on whether such a meeting took place April 27, 2016, at the Mayflower Hotel in Washington, DC, where then-candidate Donald Trump was delivering his first major foreign policy address.
======================

Lying - twice!- about his involvement with a foreign country who has recently attacked the US is going to be VERY hard to sweep under the carpet. At some point you have to wonder whose side he is on.

[rushmc 18]

http://www.truthrevolt.org/news/alan-dershowitz-comey-confirms-im-right-and-democratic-commentators-are-wrong

At least on Democrat still has the power of reason left.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

I would think your nose rings would have you all bloody by now........

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln