Drinking from a fire hose...

[GeorgiaDon 340]

brenthutch

I have no problem with companies allocating capital as they seem fit. If it works they will be rewarded if it fails they will be punished, by the market; that is how capitalism works. I take issue with bureaucrats in Washington DC picking winners and losers.

The oil that is pumped from the ground in, say, Wyoming is sold as gas all over the world, not just locally in Wyoming. Oil production, especially fracking, uses a lot of water, and quite a bit of that ends up back on the surface but heavily contaminated. Regulations require that water to be contained and not just dumped on the land where it would contaminate aquifers and ranchland. Oil could be produced at less cost if oil companies could just dump that water on site. Are you saying that consumers at the gas pump in, say, North Carolina (i.e. "the market") will investigate the behavior of oil producers in Wyoming (and everywhere else in the supply train leading to the gas pump) and only purchase more expensive gas produced by suppliers that voluntarily avoid polluting the land? Won't shareholders punish companies that spend money on pollution control if that is not required by the law? Do you really believe "the market" works to punish polluters?

Regulations set a baseline that everybody must abide by. They don't pick winners and losers, they establish a level playing field so no-one can gain an advantage by not cleaning up the messes they make.

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)

[normiss 622]

With proper maintenance, zero.
The diesel deleters do it for more HP and MPG, period.
Oh, and blowing coal black smoke is 'bad ass' to some, to me, it's rude and disgusting.

I'm good with 430HP and 830ft lbs of torque at 14mpg, and no hassles for tampering with exhaust emissions federal laws.

I do care about emissions, lungs, air quality, and a planet for the future with the belief that even small efforts help.

[brenthutch 388]

Getting back to the topic of the OP, Rex Tillerson's Senate hearing is scheduled on the same day as Trump's news conference. Democrats go glug glug glug as Trump sucks up all of the oxygen and dominates the news cycle.

[quade 3]

brenthutch

Getting back to the topic of the OP, Rex Tillerson's Senate hearing is scheduled on the same day as Trump's news conference.

More importantly, it was also scheduled on the same day as the Congressional vote-a-thon. That's the day early in a Congressional session where they vote pretty much non-stop to pass a bajillion little amendments and whatnot regarding how they're going to operate that session.

What that means is, Tillerson's hearing will most likely be pretty brief and superficial regardless of Trump activity.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[Phil1111 913]

gowlerk

It's true. Regulations without enforcement are meaningless. And many, even most of the bad effects will take years to show up. Thanks, Donald.

Ah! the US without regulations. trump learning from Putin about how to limit regulations and oversight.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/09/12/world/russia-red-river-siberia/

[DanG 1]

Quote

I can understand why you would be in favour of improved performance for your truck at the small cost of the particulate matter pollution of the air. But are you good with every diesel engine doing the same? Have you seen the pictures of Beijing, or do you remember the LA smog?

I think you should be replying to millertime. He's the one modding his diesel to belch smog.

- Dan G

[rushmc 18]

kallend

***Read the post right above yours.

I did. Making more money still doesn't justify poisoning the population and desecrating the planet.

THE SKY IS FALLING THE SKY IS FALLING OOOOOOHHHHHHH

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

quade

***They work "just fine" may be good enough for you, I prefer what works best.

And you again admit it's simply a preference on your part.

That's no basis for setting national policy.

But this is what YOU want done!!!!

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

millertime24

***If you were to do that, where would the soot go instead?

I'm assuming out of a 5" pipe somewhere near the rear of the vehicle.

That is overkill designed just to make noise

3" works just fine for my Duramax.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

DanG

Quote

I wouldn't care about my emissions.

Nice.

Quote

I don't have exact manufacturing figures to back it up, but I would think that far more emissions would be generated in creating replacement parts, that would have otherwise not needed replacement, than a vehicle like mine would generate.

Your position is that diesel engines users are constantly having to replace parts because of these environmental laws? Why on Earth would anyone use a diesel engine? They seem so unreliable and expensive to maintain!

How many times have you had to replace any of the internal components of your diesel engine?

you obviously know very little about current DPF's and converters in todays' commercial trucks.

He is right by the way. Very expensive parts are needed including maintaining the APU's required by a few states.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[rushmc 18]

SkyDekker

Quote

I have no problem with companies allocating capital as they seem fit. If it works they will be rewarded if it fails they will be punished, by the market;

That's how the academic version of capitalism works yes. That's the theory. Reality has shown it doesn't, over and over again.

A great example of fake news you post here.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,141]

brenthutch

I'm sure you can fine an exemption, but that IS largely how it works.

Actually the larger the entity, the less it works that way. In reality that is.

[SkyDekker 1,141]

rushmc

***

Quote

I have no problem with companies allocating capital as they seem fit. If it works they will be rewarded if it fails they will be punished, by the market;

That's how the academic version of capitalism works yes. That's the theory. Reality has shown it doesn't, over and over again.

A great example of fake news you post here.

Is that supposed to be an insult? Even that you screw up.

[rushmc 18]

SkyDekker

******

Quote

I have no problem with companies allocating capital as they seem fit. If it works they will be rewarded if it fails they will be punished, by the market;

That's how the academic version of capitalism works yes. That's the theory. Reality has shown it doesn't, over and over again.

A great example of fake news you post here.

Is that supposed to be an insult? Even that you screw up.

Insult? No

Fact.

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[SkyDekker 1,141]

rushmc

*********

Quote

I have no problem with companies allocating capital as they seem fit. If it works they will be rewarded if it fails they will be punished, by the market;

That's how the academic version of capitalism works yes. That's the theory. Reality has shown it doesn't, over and over again.

A great example of fake news you post here.

Is that supposed to be an insult? Even that you screw up.

Insult? No

Fact.

You now think a comment on a message board is equivalent to news; fake or not.

You are one bizarre individual.

[billvon 2,426]

> I like things that work more than I like things that don't.

So do I. Solar, EV's, wind - all work and growing like crazy. Remember that great news you recently posted about Ford keeping jobs in the US? That was due to EV's.

I like things that work and are better than what they replace.

[Phil1111 913]

billvon

> I like things that work more than I like things that don't.

So do I. Solar, EV's, wind - all work and growing like crazy. Remember that great news you recently posted about Ford keeping jobs in the US? That was due to EV's.

I like things that work and are better than what they replace.

"China to plow $361 billion into renewable fuel by 2020...

China will plow 2.5 trillion yuan ($361 billion) into renewable power generation by 2020, the country's energy agency said on Thursday, as the world's largest energy market continues to shift away from dirty coal power towards cleaner fuels. ...

The spending comes as the cost of building large-scale solar plants has dropped by as much as 40 percent since 2010. China became the world's top solar generator last year. ...

The NEA's job creation forecast differs from the NDRC's in December that said it expected an additional 3 million jobs"
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-energy-renewables-idUSKBN14P06P

"The hard-eyed view along the Tug Fork River in West Virginia coal country is that President-elect Donald Trump has something to prove: that he'll help bring back Appalachian mining, as he promised time and again on the campaign trail. Nobody thinks he can revive it entirely — not economists, not ex-miners, not even those recently called back to work....

most voters saw Trump as the only choice for president. He vowed to undo looming federal rules and said President Barack Obama had been "ridiculous" to the industry. Trump told miners in Charleston: "We're going to take care of years of horrible abuse. I guarantee it."...

That skepticism is supported by industry analysts, who say any recovery won't be centered in the eastern coalfields of Kentucky and West Virginia and will never bring U.S. coal back to what it once was.

Last year, the nation had about 66,000 coal mining jobs — the lowest since the U.S. Energy Information Administration began counting in 1978. That's down 20,000 since a high point in 2008, and preliminary data show 10,000 more lost this year."
http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/ct-trump-jobs-coal-country-biz-20161121-story.html

[brenthutch 388]

No you are wrong, by focusing on mercury the EPA was targeting coal. US mercury emissions are less than 1% of global total. 70% of mercury emissions are from natural sources. High cost and ZERO benefit. It is ideologically based policy.

[kallend 1,644]

brenthutch

No you are wrong, by focusing on mercury the EPA was targeting coal. US mercury emissions are less than 1% of global total. 70% of mercury emissions are from natural sources. High cost and ZERO benefit. It is ideologically based policy.

Just happens to suck if you live downwind of a coal fired power plant and have infants, eh?
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3096006/

Mercury is a highly toxic element; there is no known safe level of exposure.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[quade 3]

brenthutch

No you are wrong, by focusing on mercury the EPA was targeting coal. US mercury emissions are less than 1% of global total. 70% of mercury emissions are from natural sources. High cost and ZERO benefit. It is ideologically based policy.

You'd have to be mad as a hatter to say there is "ZERO benefit" to reducing mercury.

A 1% delta in anything on a global scale is huge.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[jakee 1,257]

brenthutch

US mercury emissions are less than 1% of global total.

Who cares? Apart from contamination of international fish stocks, mercury pollution is essentially a local problem. So if there is a mercury emissions problem in the US, cutting US mercury emissions will help, regardless of how much any other countries are poisoning their own citizens.

Do you want to have an ideagasm?

[Stumpy 256]

quade

You'd have to be mad as a hatter .......

Nicely done

Never try to eat more than you can lift

[brenthutch 388]

Less than one percent. Anyway, If the EPA were intellectually consistent the would ban CFLs.

[gowlerk 1,923]

brenthutch

No you are wrong, by focusing on mercury the EPA was targeting coal. US mercury emissions are less than 1% of global total. 70% of mercury emissions are from natural sources. High cost and ZERO benefit. It is ideologically based policy.

So, I just read the post this is in reply to. It has nothing in it about mercury. It's about pollution caused by fracking. What part is he wrong about?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[GeorgiaDon 340]

Quote

It is ideologically based policy.

All policy reflects an ideology. One ideology is that industry should not cause harm to the public. Another ideology is industry should be allowed to do anything they wish to increase profits, regardless of the harmful impact on the public. You make it quite clear which ideology you prefer.

Quote

US mercury emissions are less than 1% of global total.

Typical of the industry disinformation campaign. Emissions from point sources such as smokestacks are not evenly distributed over the whole globe, they are concentrated downwind of the source. In the US natural sources account for only 30% of atmospheric mercury, and coal-fired power generation accounts for over 50% of the atmospheric mercury from anthropogenic sources. Once released to the atmosphere mercury is picked up by rain/snow and ends up in the soil and water where it accumulates, year by year. Some of that is converted to methyl and dimethylmercury by bacteria, and those organic mercury compounds bio-accumulate in fish and plants to levels that are toxic for us to consume (not to mention the impact on the ecosystem, which I am aware you don't give a rat's ass about).

So yes, a few tons of mercury added to our water and soil and atmosphere every year, accumulating year after year, is a big deal. If the technology exists to avoid that, why would you not do so, unless you put your personal profit ahead of the health and safety of everyone and every living thing downwind of your power plant?

Don

_____________________________________
Tolerance is the cost we must pay for our adventure in liberty. (Dworkin, 1996)
“Education is not filling a bucket, but lighting a fire.” (Yeats)