Civil war if Hillary wins?

[rushmc 18]

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-23/new-podesta-email-exposes-dem-playbook-rigging-polls-through-oversamples

Worth considering...

Oh. Never mind. More altered emails...

"America will never be destroyed from the outside,
if we falter and lose our freedoms,
it will be because we destroyed ourselves."
Abraham Lincoln

[quade 3]

rushmc

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-23/new-podesta-email-exposes-dem-playbook-rigging-polls-through-oversamples

Worth considering...

Oh. Never mind. More altered emails...

More like, "who gives a shit what two people who work far behind the scenes said in 2008?" Date stamp on email, "2008-01-18 19:04"

Prove to me how that's relevant today and then we can talk about it.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[kallend 1,623]

quade

***http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-23/new-podesta-email-exposes-dem-playbook-rigging-polls-through-oversamples

Worth considering...

Oh. Never mind. More altered emails...

More like, "who gives a shit what two people who work far behind the scenes said in 2008?" Date stamp on email, "2008-01-18 19:04"

Prove to me how that's relevant today and then we can talk about it.

Otoh Trump's fraud trial starts Nov 28 and his rape trial in December.

...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

[ryoder 1,384]

kallend

******http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-23/new-podesta-email-exposes-dem-playbook-rigging-polls-through-oversamples

Worth considering...

Oh. Never mind. More altered emails...

More like, "who gives a shit what two people who work far behind the scenes said in 2008?" Date stamp on email, "2008-01-18 19:04"

Prove to me how that's relevant today and then we can talk about it.

Otoh Trump's fraud trial starts Nov 28 and his rape trial in December.

It looks like a status hearing on Dec 16: http://lawnewz.com/high-profile/federal-judge-orders-hearing-in-donald-trump-rape-lawsuit-case/

"There are only three things of value: younger women, faster airplanes, and bigger crocodiles" - Arthur Jones.

[rehmwa 2]

once we get a legitimate 3rd party in play (or more) - then certainly we'll need congress to rethink the electoral college method. with more than two parties, 272 isn't a magical number any more at all.

I wonder if they would. It certainly would increase their power if they have a higher likelihood of getting to decide the presidential elections.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[AlanS 1]

rehmwa

once we get a legitimate 3rd party in play (or more) - then certainly we'll need congress to rethink the electoral college method. with more than two parties, 272 isn't a magical number any more at all.

I wonder if they would. It certainly would increase their power if they have a higher likelihood of getting to decide the presidential elections.

Just as important we need to re-vamp the Presidential primary system.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gndkcb12X1c

The current system going a state at a time - disenfranchises 99% of the voters. It might have made sense in 1820 before the internet and when the country was much smaller, but right now, if you were to create a system from scratch letting Iowa and New Hampshire be the primary element in selecting a president just doesn't make any sense.


I think it needs to be nation-wide and in several stages. Perhaps in the first primary day the top 5 vote getters move on, and people get to select a top 3.

Then from there you narrow it down is the following primary election days. But the most important thing is the winner needs to get 50% in a nation-wide poll to get the nomination. I don't think we would have these candidates with a different primary system. It creates people the know "how to work the system".

[normiss 622]

The thought of the popular vote electing a president is terrifying.
Most Americans aren't smart enough to begin to understand the implications.
"Reality TV", and it's popularity is all the evidence you need....but add all the false narratives the internets provide and well...terrifying to even consider it.

[AlanS 1]

normiss

The thought of the popular vote electing a president is terrifying.
Most Americans aren't smart enough to begin to understand the implications.
"Reality TV", and it's popularity is all the evidence you need....but add all the false narratives the internets provide and well...terrifying to even consider it.

I'm talking about the presidential primary to select the candidates. That is where the big change needs to happen. The electoral college would just be a minor change in comparison.

[quade 3]

AlanS

Just as important we need to re-vamp the Presidential primary system.



I think it needs to be nation-wide and in several stages.

Unfortunately, as I've said in this forum several times before, this requires a Constitutional Amendment.

As much as I'd love to see it happen, I don't see it happening in my lifetime.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[gowlerk 1,912]

quade

***Just as important we need to re-vamp the Presidential primary system.



I think it needs to be nation-wide and in several stages.

Unfortunately, as I've said in this forum several times before, this requires a Constitutional Amendment.

As much as I'd love to see it happen, I don't see it happening in my lifetime.


I'm not sure how the primary election system evolved. But I'm pretty sure the constitution does not cover it. From out here where I sit it seems to be the way parties select nominees. If there were a strong 3rd party would they have to get in the game? I think primaries are completely optional and any party could opt out and use a different way to select the nominee. No?

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[quade 3]

gowlerk

******Just as important we need to re-vamp the Presidential primary system.

I think it needs to be nation-wide and in several stages.

Unfortunately, as I've said in this forum several times before, this requires a Constitutional Amendment.
As much as I'd love to see it happen, I don't see it happening in my lifetime.
I'm not sure how the primary election system evolved. But I'm pretty sure the constitution does not cover it. From out here where I sit it seems to be the way parties select nominees. If there were a strong 3rd party would they have to get in the game? I think primaries are completely optional and any party could opt out and use a different way to select the nominee. No?

Correct. It's left up to the individual states, which is why if there was a nation-wide change making the system uniform (and more intelligent), it would require a change to the Constitution.

It would instantly be seen as a "states rights" vs "federal government" fight. The smaller states which fight for early primaries reap huge financial gains from the current system (quadrennial influx of cash from advertising and media outlet) would get pissy. It would be ugly fast.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DanG 1]

Quote

Unfortunately, as I've said in this forum several times before, this requires a Constitutional Amendment.

Why would a private event held by private corporations require any mention in the US Code at all, especially the Constitution?

- Dan G

[quade 3]

DanG

Quote

Unfortunately, as I've said in this forum several times before, this requires a Constitutional Amendment.

Why would a private event held by private corporations require any mention in the US Code at all, especially the Constitution?

Because you'd be changing the status of that.

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rehmwa 2]

quade

Correct. It's left up to the individual states, which is why if there was a nation-wide change making the system uniform (and more intelligent), it would require a change to the Constitution.

It would instantly be seen as a "states rights" vs "federal government" fight. The smaller states which fight for early primaries reap huge financial gains from the current system (quadrennial influx of cash from advertising and media outlet) would get pissy. It would be ugly fast.

you are replying talking about the Electoral College to people talking about primaries

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[quade 3]

rehmwa

***Correct. It's left up to the individual states, which is why if there was a nation-wide change making the system uniform (and more intelligent), it would require a change to the Constitution.

It would instantly be seen as a "states rights" vs "federal government" fight. The smaller states which fight for early primaries reap huge financial gains from the current system (quadrennial influx of cash from advertising and media outlet) would get pissy. It would be ugly fast.

you are replying talking about the Electoral College to people talking about primaries

I'm not talking about just the Electoral Collage. I AM including the primaries. Go back and re-read Post #87 of this thread. There's no way to bring uniformity to the primary process as he is suggesting without some sort of Federal control of the process.

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4821736#4821736

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[DanG 1]

Quote

There's no way to bring uniformity to the primary process as he is suggesting without some sort of Federal control of the process.

Um, no. There's no way to bring uniformity to the primary process outside of the parties deciding to do it themselves. It is not a government activity. Congress could dictate to the RNC, DNC, and other parties how they run their internal business, but it would almost surely get struck down by the courts.

You're just plain wrong about this.

- Dan G

[quade 3]

DanG

Quote

There's no way to bring uniformity to the primary process as he is suggesting without some sort of Federal control of the process.

Um, no. There's no way to bring uniformity to the primary process outside of the parties deciding to do it themselves. It is not a government activity. Congress could dictate to the RNC, DNC, and other parties how they run their internal business, but it would almost surely get struck down by the courts.

You're just plain wrong about this.

You're arguing in favor of my point, yet you don't see it.

Again, go back and read what was written in http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4821736#4821736

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rehmwa 2]

private associations would do better if the government controlled them - got it

nothing the courts would disagree with there

no sirree

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[gowlerk 1,912]

So, either or both major parties could just decide to skip the primary system altogether and choose their nominee in another fashion. Like the Greens and Libertarians already do.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[quade 3]

rehmwa

private associations would do better if the government controlled them - got it

nothing the courts would disagree with there

no sirree

Thanks for completely misrepresenting what I said. Internet points to you? I guess?

quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

[rehmwa 2]

gowlerk

So, either or both major parties could just decide to skip the primary system altogether and choose their nominee in another fashion. Like the Greens and Libertarians already do.

funny - so pick one - the corruption of the private entrenched parties, or a new model with the corruption of the government run by the private entrenched parties..... .............

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[rehmwa 2]

quade

***private associations would do better if the government controlled them - got it

nothing the courts would disagree with there

no sirree

Thanks for completely misrepresenting what I said. Internet points to you? I guess?

nonsense - if you can't explain yourself clearly ("go read Alan's post where he proposes a hypothetical for the private parties to move to - for discussion purposes"), then don't blame the 5 other people that have replied the same as I did

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[JerryBaumchen 1,048]

Hi Ken,

Quote

either or both major parties could just decide to skip the primary system altogether and choose their nominee in another fashion

I am no expert on this. IMO it is up to each party to make their own decisions on how they select their candidates. Then each state can decide to recognize ( put them on the ballots or not ) that decision or not.

The R's did this one to themselves; no one else to blame.

After Romney lost ( I have read ), the R's had a little confab on how to be more inclusive, what changes did they have to make to win the White House, etc. I would guess that did not work so well.

Jerry Baumchen

[DJL 232]

rehmwa

once we get a legitimate 3rd party in play (or more) - then certainly we'll need congress to rethink the electoral college method. with more than two parties, 272 isn't a magical number any more at all.

I wonder if they would. It certainly would increase their power if they have a higher likelihood of getting to decide the presidential elections.

The final decision needs to come down to two candidates regardless of how may party starts. We can't have a President who only 33.5% of the voters want in office. Look what happened to the GOP when they fielded 16 candidates, all so similar that the votes were split so much that Trump with 33% of the vote mathematically defeated the candidates who represented the majority opinion of the party.

I figured it out when I was a 6th grader and I was running again two females for a mock class election. When the three of us went into the hallway while they voted all three of us knew that the boys would vote for me and the girls would vote for one of the girls.

"I encourage all awesome dangerous behavior." - Jeffro Fincher

[headoverheels 291]

JerryBaumchen

After Romney lost ( I have read ), the R's had a little confab on how to be more inclusive, what changes did they have to make to win the White House, etc. I would guess that did not work so well.

Jerry Baumchen

It won't work well this time, either. They will just blame the Trump phenomenon as a one-off, and fail to address their problems once again.